Psychological VS Neurological Aspergers Syndrome/ASD
naturalplastic wrote:
Its hard for me to imagine how bad upbringing would cause someone to 'become' an aspie, or an autie. Why would a neurotypical child respond in that particular way? Most spectrumites show the behaviors early on -maybe not at birth-but by entering grade school. So we seem to be aspie from the get go- before the environment has time to to traumtize us. And even if something in the family dynamic causes a child to become more autistic it would have to be because that child already has somekind of innate tendency to respond in an autistic way. The same person might have been slighly less autistic in some better environment, but they would still have strong autistic tendencies because of how they are wired.
*****Actually the main reasons I joined WP is to inquire into this very topic. The explanation probably has to do with what is called encapsulation. People with certain kinds of brains are more likely to encapsulate in certain ways, and it can happen at any time, even infancy. When it happens at a preverbal stage there could be less of a chance to work through it, especially if the parent has the same kind of brain and this, along with trauma, affected his own development..Various forms of brain damage also can presumably increase the possibility of encapsulating, and trauma experienced at any age can amplify the tendency.. All of this has to do with what in psychoanalysis is called object-relations theory, and no, I am not a big fan of psychoanalysis or psychological therapy in general, -but I do no think the baby of some of the best of the theory should be thrown out with the bathwater of often corrupt, unequal exploitive power and overly subjective therapy.
chlov wrote:
whirlingmind wrote:
chlov wrote:
As far as I know, one of the most important criteria to diagnose AS (or any other neurological disorder) is the lack or psychological trauma, because the consequences of trauma can be confused with AS.
I've not heard that to be the case at all. In fact, I believe there is evidence that children with ASDs are more subject to abuse because of having an ASD. I had a crap childhood, but my 5 siblings all had the same childhood and none of them have Asperger's or symptoms like it.
You didn't get what I meant.
I didn't mean that people with AS can't be abused or can't have a trauma.
What I meant is that true AS can be confused with the consequences of a trauma, because the characteristics can be similar.
One of the things that rules out an AS diagnosis is childhood trauma.
The first things the psychiatrist did when I was 6 was asking to my mother if I've had a trauma (I didn't).
I didn't mean that people with AS can't have a childhood trauma.
If a person with AS has had a childhood trauma, the only way to confirm that that person has AS would be knowing what the child behaviour was like before the trauma (if there is someone that knows so).
I hope I explained what I meant...
Sorry, but it is not possible to separate the two in such a black and white way,, as how a person's brain is affects how he responds to trauma, and the trauma affects and shapes his brain functioning, and that is built upon, so a living process in that the brain is very flexible and also new kinds of experience and conditioning are being factored in.
Another thing---I do not know if this is the case with your response---it is apparently hard for some people on this forum to understand that the brain is not you. The brain is not the mind.
There are a number of symptoms of ASDs that are developed rather than innate. This means that a lot of the markers of ASDs can be the result of the combination of the disorder itself and the ignorance of the disorder. When someone gets diagnosed and has an "Aha!" moment, they can then identify where their mental differences are causing problems and make corrections. This is what people are saying with "coping mechanisms".
So, it is possible to grow out of many of the symptoms, and that can be done with therapy and awareness practices. That doesn't mean someone has grown out of ASD.
littlebee wrote:
Sorry, but it is not possible to separate the two in such a black and white way,, as how a person's brain is affects how he responds to trauma, and the trauma affects and shapes his brain functioning, and that is built upon, so a living process in that the brain is very flexible and also new kinds of experience and conditioning are being factored in.
Sorry, I didn't get what you mean.
chlov wrote:
littlebee wrote:
Sorry, but it is not possible to separate the two in such a black and white way,, as how a person's brain is affects how he responds to trauma, and the trauma affects and shapes his brain functioning, and that is built upon, so a living process in that the brain is very flexible and also new kinds of experience and conditioning are being factored in.
Sorry, I didn't get what you mean.
Maybe someone else will get it, but to better explain, a mentally ret*d person may react differently to being periodically slapped then a gifted child might (though each child is in his own way gifted.) If they are slapped a lot, both may flinch when the hand of any person reaches toward them, but the gifted child may develop all kind of rather clever elaborate strategies to psychologically protect himself.
To explain a bit more about (what is called autistic) encapsulation, one part of oneself that is encapsulated, meaning a kind of invisible line is drawn around, in order to represent ones 'whole' self, and yet serve a protective function so in this sense an exaggerated sense of smell or hearing, and I have had and have both, can become protective.
I would also like to call attention to a wonderful message by a person named Highlander which I did not see when I first posted on this thread. This person is highly articulate and insightful, and that message was a joy to read..
The main thing I have to add for now about encapsulation is that regarding object-relations ,the doorway in can also become the doorway out. In fact it would have to the way out, but until a person is completely conscious (and I surely am not), and maybe to some degree even afterwards, one thing will always represent something else. It is just how the brain organizes data.
p.s. A reason I said "sorry" in the beginning of my message is that it really is kind of sad that things cannot be so simple. Material needs to be integrated into a broader context, and that can be painful, for me, at least. Of course when and if the integration occurs, then things can be much more simple in a way that is spontaneous and joyful, but I think some ways of integration cannot be learned without making a specific dedication to work toward that goal.
