Do you lack gender bias because of AS?

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Callista
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25 Oct 2013, 1:25 pm

It probably means that you don't have any religious bias. That can happen if you grew up in an environment with pretty much equal exposure to religions and secular worldviews, or more likely an environment that largely ignored religious matters.

I get the same result with the black and white IAT--smack in the middle, no bias either way. That makes sense, because I grew up in Germany until I was about six years old and simply didn't encounter any black people, nor was I taught any stereotypes about them. Then when I came to the US, one of my major first exposures to black people was neutral--my uncle was black and my cousins are biracial, and it never really made much difference because they are a military family and that defines them a lot more than race. Only once I was about twelve and my mom married a racist did I get exposed to anti-black prejudice, and by then I was too old to really internalize it.

I do have a strong anti-disability result on the IAT. That makes sense--my mother is strongly ablist, with a fear-and-pity approach to disability, and as a young child I was exposed to things like people with disabilities being talked about with pity, or being threatened with acquiring a disability myself if I did something dangerous.

I do have some minor tendency to think of young black men I don't know as being potentially a threat, but I think the same way of young white men that I don't know. Their race doesn't seem to be a factor so much as the mental image I have of men in their late teens and early twenties as being more "dangerous" than other groups. Statistically, this is true, but it is not a stereotype I agree with acting on. Most young men are not violent and it does them a disservice to lump them with the minority who are.

What I learned about prejudice in my social psychology class was interesting, though: Unprejudiced people are not the people who don't have internalized stereotypes. Like the prejudiced group, they will show biased results on the IAT. However, unlike the prejudiced group, they work to override their bias, monitoring themselves for biased actions and even biased thoughts. When you put unprejudiced people in an MRI machine, you can see their brains lighting up, working harder to counter the stereotypes they have internalized. So what the IAT measures is that internal stereotype--it doesn't measure your response to it.


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Ganondox
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25 Oct 2013, 1:37 pm

Callista wrote:
It probably means that you don't have any religious bias. That can happen if you grew up in an environment with pretty much equal exposure to religions and secular worldviews, or more likely an environment that largely ignored religious matters.


My household is profoundly mormon, though quite liberal. I've been exposed to many religions. My best friend in the 1st grade is muslim, giving me a positive view of muslims, I always looked to Hindu's with exotic admiration, I grew up in a neighborhood with a large jewish population ect. and I now I live in Indonesia. I remember I attended a Ramadan festival once, my parents also attended a Sikh one. I was finding it hard at first to put any religiously charged thing in the "negative" section. It anything I have a positive bias towards religion in general, and if atheists were included in the list the result might be different.


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25 Oct 2013, 4:53 pm

PowderHound wrote:
In response to the other comments, an important problem is that people in our society traditionally use "he" and only "he" to refer to people when we are not sure of gender. This is because of the history of male dominance in our society--the male version of the word was considered better and more appropriate. People did not want to risk calling a man woman, but they were OK calling a woman or transgender person a man. Out of context, finding offense in the general use of he or she could be a result of one's own prejudice towards men or women, but our cultural history and the fact that people virtually never use a general "she" in place of the general "he" makes it otherwise.


This usage really only goes back to the 1800s. Use of singular "they" as indeterminate gender goes back to Shakespeare and Chaucer (Chaucer being what, 14th century?) and thus probably even earlier than that. People seem to believe that English was always like this, but it really wasn't.

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The general use of "he" devalues both women and transgenders. The use of he/she devalues transgender people if it is assumed to mean he or she. The general use of such a term implies ambiguity, however, and this can be interpreted as not being gender specific if transgender is considered as somewhere in between male and female. This interpretation does not eliminate bias if transgender is to be considered a different gender entirely.


Well, a few things:

* There's no such thing as "a transgender." You really mean "a transgender person."
* Transgender is not a gender. It describes how some people experience conflict between their actual gender and the gender that was assigned to them at birth. Transgender people can be men, women, non-binary, genderqueer, agender, neutrois, etc.

Hence you read about trans men, trans women, genderqueer people, etc.

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Honestly, the only logical way about it is to create a gender-neutral word that replaces the general "he". Using he/she places emphasis on the importance of gender in a context where gender is not otherwise important, and it disrupts the flow of language. It seems absurd that the English language does not have a word for this, and the only explanations are the prevalence of gender bias and the emphasis we place on gender in our society.


Singular "they" is grammatically valid and centuries old.

http://motivatedgrammar.wordpress.com/2 ... s-correct/

Although many people object to it because they're invested in what we have no and/or mistakenly believe that what we have now was always the case.

And even if it didn't have historical precedent, it would still be valid because languages change. After all, that's how masculine pronouns because the default for gender indeterminacy. This was not even a product of typical language evolution, but due to activism to "officially" change the language.



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25 Oct 2013, 4:56 pm

Bitoku wrote:
I think men and women are equal but not the same. There's physiological differences between male and female brains, as well as the more obvious different hormonal effects, that make men and women at least slightly different in terms of mental processing and preferences. This isn't an absolute thing, and there's always the outlier exceptions, but in general there's some fairly clear distinctions, such as...
- Males tend to be more physically competitive with each other, while females are more socially competitive
- Males tend to do better at focused thought, where females tend to be better at multitasking
- Males tend towards activities that involve hunter-type activities (physical or mental challenges, combat simulation, etc.), while females tend towards more nesting-type activities (decorating, home organization, etc.)
- Males are more visually focused in terms of attraction to a romantic partner, where as females tend to be focused on more underlying but equally instrumental traits, such as wealth and status of their partner.

Those are just a few examples of how men and women are generally different, but again I'm going to say there's outliers that are going to be exceptions to each of those generalities. So I'm not arguing that there's some females who have the masculine traits and some males who have feminine traits, I'm just saying there's a general pattern that's generally true most of the time, and means that males and females just aren't the same (but also neither is better or worse than the other).


I strongly recommend reading Cordelia Fine's Delusions of Gender for a critical analysis of this information.

None of the traits you listed are inherently "masculine" or "feminine." Masculinity and femininity are social constructions that are often assigned arbitrarily.



Callista
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26 Oct 2013, 10:09 am

Yeah, I still have a lot of trouble with using singular "they" properly. It always feels awkward. I wish I could get a good grammar tutorial on it from somewhere. Usually I try to weasel out of it by using plurals; then "they" sounds fine. Or I cop out with s/he.


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26 Oct 2013, 10:17 am

I use they a lot. It's a good gender neutral way to refer to someone and is especially useful for referring to a person of unknown gender.



Codyrules37
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26 Oct 2013, 10:18 am

[img][800:675]http://www.winggirlmethod.com/images/differences-between-men-and-women2.png[/img]



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26 Oct 2013, 12:29 pm

Codyrules37 wrote:
[img][800:675]http://www.winggirlmethod.com/images/differences-between-men-and-women2.png[/img]


Okay, instead of continuing to dump sexist BS in this thread, can you just say "I'm sexist" and leave? No one wants it here. I for one have just as many of the female traits as the male ones.


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26 Oct 2013, 12:35 pm

Traditional Gender Biases apply to people who try to live by Traditional Gender Roles.

If the person in question actually lives by their own standards, then you can't accurately apply these traits to them.



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26 Oct 2013, 12:45 pm

Whilst I consider that Males & Females are Equal, my observations & experience in life has created my opinion that certain roles operate better (more efficiently) if they are carried out by a member of a specific gender.

As an example;

I consider that females make far better managers of a company/businness than males if staff confidence is to be sustained. Male managers usually (based upon my personal experience) tend to be focused on the product, meeting deadlines, pushing sales, encouraging competition between staff members to make more sales than another, etc. whereas Female managers are better at maintaining staff moral, & keeping the team working together as a whole.

It is just an observation from my own experience.


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26 Oct 2013, 1:02 pm

DavidCook wrote:
Gender bias is a horrible phenomenon, but I feel that because of AS, I am able to see through it logically that both genders should be treated equally in every way. Society has become better over the years with regard to gender bias, but not 100%. I am a guy with AS who firmly believes that gender bias is not just wrong, but immoral. What are your opinions on the subject?


Sounds very Karl Marx'ish, the problem is how others interpret it like Lenin... and they both happen to be the same type of personality.

Affirmative Action tries to address that, but it creates another unfair environment.



Codyrules37
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26 Oct 2013, 3:59 pm

okay im sexist.



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Verdandi
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26 Oct 2013, 5:51 pm

Stalk wrote:
DavidCook wrote:
Gender bias is a horrible phenomenon, but I feel that because of AS, I am able to see through it logically that both genders should be treated equally in every way. Society has become better over the years with regard to gender bias, but not 100%. I am a guy with AS who firmly believes that gender bias is not just wrong, but immoral. What are your opinions on the subject?


Sounds very Karl Marx'ish, the problem is how others interpret it like Lenin... and they both happen to be the same type of personality.

Affirmative Action tries to address that, but it creates another unfair environment.


Citation needed.



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26 Oct 2013, 8:01 pm

I don't think that there is any real behavioral difference between genders. I often wonder how much gender bias affects the behavior of people who have them. If anything, if people ignored gender norms, many of them would be androgynous.

I have seen many people at my special school for people on the autistic spectrum try to conform to gender expectations, but it is noticeable when they are faking because of their stereotypic behavior. There are even classmates that act according to gender norms in social situations, but act like their opposite gender in the classroom.



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30 Oct 2013, 2:33 pm

After earning degrees in English and Cultural Anthropology, I can tell you that the singular use of "they" is not always accepted as grammatically correct in academia. On a casual basis it's fine, but plenty of professors and TA's will ding you for it. In most classes I had, students had to use either he, she, he/she, or she/he. The professors always told the class on the first day and wrote in the syllabus if students were required to avoid the use of the general "he," as was department policy. Most professors specifically told their classes to not use "they" in a singular context, but one or two stated it was OK because none of the accepted conventions are correct anyway. It seems like one of those things that depends on who you ask, and on which grammar book you read.



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30 Oct 2013, 3:18 pm

I find this whole topic to be inherently confusing.

What exactly is 'gender bias'?

Is it biased to note that there are physiological, hormonal, and mental differences, in general, between the two biological genders?
If so, I suppose I'm biased, because I'm aware of those differences, and in general that awareness has proven fairly helpful in terms of anticipating the parameters of interactions with a person of a particular biological gender.

However, I'm also aware that those differences are not absolute and that there is certainly a large amount of room for deviation from the norm, especially in terms of brain structure, and that awareness allows me to adjust my perception of a particular individual based on their own identification and general interaction style if it deviates significantly from the norm for their particular biological gender.
So in that way, I'm not really biased.

I do my best to treat and react to everyone as equally as possible, at least in terms of their gender, although being an (unfortunately) heterosexual male sometimes I will treat and react to women I perceive to be attractive differently than others, even though I might rather not do so.
Damned hormones.

Am I gender biased?