Help! Do I listen to my therapist, or do I remain Aspie?

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Both. Embrace your aspieness, and utilize your therapist to overcome the weaknesses your AS brings you.

Is it a weakness or a difference?

I honestly don't understand the world sometimes...it seems strange to think that we should all be the same and then when we can't all be the same to label those differences as a weakness.

Can we not get a new belief system going or something cause the one that people use now is silly. No offense meant and I don't mean it in a nasty way but it is illogical, impractical and unrealistic. If anything it seems to be impairing peoples ability to function rather than enhancing it. Instead of embracing and making use of their own abilities and skills they are shunning them in favour of trying to be what they are not and are making themselves ill in the process.

I appreciate I seem to be the only one who sees it that way (never found anyone else who does yet anyway)

If we were in a world where certain aspie traits were accepted there would be no disability (or at least much less disability at any rate). Ie:

Too tired to make chit chat...not a problem, the person would understand. It wouldn't mean that you were weak or making excuses or unfriendly you are what you say you are...just tired and don't wish to chit chat.

Not coping with some sensory input...not a problem, the person would understand, you are sensitive to said input, this is not a failing or a weakness but the way your nervous system works. Solution: find you an environment that does not over stimulate you.

Can't read social cues? Not a problem, you would not be expected to mind read, the person would understand and simply be clear when expressing things to you.

Its societies bloody attitude that is causing the bloody problem.

Sorry I get irked with society and its damned belief systems.

It's not the fault of the people believing them, its society...it has rammed this weakness/strength/worthless/worthy garbage down peoples throats and brainwashed them with it.

It keeps the powers that be in their preferred position though and keeps commerce ticking over...this is how they get your money off you. You are nothing if you don't have their product...what rubbish! If you don't live up to standard x, y and z you worthless...popycock! If you are not like everyone else you are diseased or disordered or wrong...nonsense!! !!

Yes some behaviour has to be monitored in society or pandemonium would break out but really I'd say most of societies behaviour and belief systems do far more damage than most of the quirks found in an aspie.

It is odd...we criticise introverts for not being chatty enough and try to medicate them to make them more social but we applaud people when they drink heavily or party a lot (I am talking about binge drinking) and see them as cool. Which actually does more damage? Heavy drinking or being an introvert?

And so and so forth,

Society has its freaking priorities mixed up and it is bloody ignorant.

Please excuse my language it is a subject I am passionate about!

Also you have not specified when, how and in what ways these traits you refer to as weaknesses are actually weaknesses.

To explain

A skill or trait may be of no use in one context and may actually impair a persons ability to function but in another the same skill or trait may be of great benefit and incredibly valuable. It all depends on the environment, context/situation and the variables involved.

Can you then tell me how it is a weakness in the generalised sense as to how you refer to it?

It is neither a weakness or a strength. In it's own right it is just a skill or a trait. What defines where it affects you negatively or positively is whether or not it is suited or adapted to the situation, environment, context etc you are in. Also it is how you make use of the trait as well, what you do with what you have got and whether you use other skills or traits (not strengths or weaknesses) to help you compensate at times when the skill or trait in question is not beneficial.

If you do not have compensatory skill then the other options are to alter the situation or environment or design apparatus or equipment (if possible) to help you out. Alternatively you accept it is not your niche, be ok with that and go find someone who is nice enough or skilled enough to be able to help out.

IE

Can't do plumbing...by a book and learn, hire a plumber to do the job for you, find a friendly neighbour to give you hand, fiddle around with the plumbing yourself and hope you don't flood your bathroom or kitchen and so on.

Thinking you are weak or worthless because you are no good at plumbing is silly. It is just not one of your skills, that is all. And who says that not being able to plumb is bad anyway? Who gets to decide this? The masses? Ummm the masses are not always too bright, I wouldn't pay so much attention to them.

The powers that be? They have their own agenda, I wouldn't pay so much attention to them

Your therapist...your therapist is a twat, get a new one.

The culture you live in? it is just a culture, all societies have them it does not mean it is all knowing or even correct. It is a belief system put together by the culture you were raised in...one way of looking the world. Nothing more nothing less. It is not some absolute truth regarding the nature of reality.

What is the true nature of reality anyway and is there one or is it all just really really relative and down to how you and others see it?

By all means learn new skills, but don't feel bad if you are still aspie afterwards - it's hardwired into you.

Besides which, I have a 19 year old NT son who almost never socialises, he spends all of his time sat playing World of Warcraft and chatting to his 'cyber friends'. I dislike it because it is not real socialising, and it is affecting his health. But the point is that not socialising is not just an aspie trait, NT's can end up doing it too, so where do you put the dividing line between NT and ASD?

Bumble, everything that you have described is exactly how I feel about it as well. I don't have anything to add because you have said it perfectly.

Could not have said it better myself

I want to clarify something.

I was thinking that maybe since I come off to most as a "soft-Aspie" (I've learned many coping skills over the years; I look people in the eye; I can read faces; I don't interrupt or go on and on about my love of Bach; etc.) that my therapist's advice might be helpful. I'm always trying to grow as a person. And in his words, quote: "everyone is on the spectrum, including neurotypicals." So his attitude is that my AS diagnosis is just an "excuse" for me not to grow.

But what I'm hearing from you is, no, there is an essential difference between an Aspie and an NT, and that it's not a difference of degree but of kind. Am I getting that right?

Yeah I'd say so. I'm not always very good at expressing what I mean, but as I a see it, it's the difference between the physical and the mental. When NT's are a bit strange its either because they have made a conscious decision to be so, or they have suffered some kind of trauma that has affected their behaviour in unexpected ways. In either case their strangeness can be cured with appropriate therapy (though those who choose to be strange would most likely not bother). ASD cannot be cured by therapy as it is a physical neurological defect. All you can do is give the ASD person coping strategies to overcome those problems, you can't rewire the brain to be NT.

I have a cousin who was born without an arm from the elbow down. They cannot grow him a new arm, but they were able to give him a mechanical arm and train him to use it as effectively as a real arm. He still has no arm, but he can operate efficiently in society because of the help he received.

Getting therapy for ASD is like getting that mechanical arm - it can make you function better, but it won't cure your ASD!

The concept of "mild" AS has to be used extremely carefully. Eg if you require weeks of alone time to recharge, you're by no means "mildly" autistic. Mild would be if you had enough with a quiet evening at home every 2-3 days.

Chances are there are other aspects in which you're not "mildly" AS at all, and your therapist is missing them or in denial. What about playing the politics well enough to advance at work and have a career, or to establish yourself firmly in a social group, for example? Gaining control of a habit, like looking in the eye, is no measure of AS severity. There are much more complex aspects that can't be conquered just by practising and applying tips. Empathy, for one, where NTs intuitively grasp another's hidden motivations and state of mind from very few signs, is something no practise and tips can teach you.

From my experience of decades, a therapist that is in denial about one's true needs is very bad news.

It is a difference. No doubt. But I'm learning now to shrug things off that used to bother me; things that are a result of AS.

I was finally able, through my employer's permission, to sack my current therapist and get one who knows how to treat AS. Thank God. He's been a nightmare.

Hmmm, this therapist doesn't seem to know much about aspergers at all. First of all you can't just be NT if you have AS, it is a different neurology. Also while I am sure it is helpful to have learned skills to connect more with people and even socialize a little, it is still perfectly fine to spend time alone focusing on your intrests.

It seems like this therapist has the goal of changing your neurology and the person you are, rather than helping you make approriate changes and goals that will help you lead the most fulfilling life you can. I personally might look for a new therapist in that situation...as it doesn't seem he wants to respect that your brain is wired differently than a neurotypical.

Fantastic, JSBl ! Congratulations and best wishes with your new therapist !

I didn't read all of the posts on this but I wanted to share with you my daughters similar experience. She has struggled with social skills since she was about 4 years old and has benefited from therapy. When she was in gradeschool her autism specialists was wonderful and helped her to learn all of the non verbal skills she struggled with. When she got to middle school (grades 6,7,&8) her autism specialist started pushing her to be more NT and less Aspie. In 7th grade her annual IEP (individualized education program) report stated - "

"She has the social skills she needs, she just chooses not to use them."

She has continued to choose not to use them except when she wants to - in other words she will go weeks focused on her writing/ online world and not choosing to participate in organized activities etc. She has a few friends who also happen to be on the spectrum and they do interact at school - but her friendships just don't look like NT friendships.

For awhile we pushed her to do more socially, but it just caused more stress in her life - so now we just let her be who she is. She is happy and that is all that really matters after all.

I would say that as long as you are participating in activities so that you can practice your social skills and don't lose those hard won skills you are just fine.

What do you mean by social skills? Do you mean interacting with people and hanging out with them and doing stuff with them?

This thread is intense and gets right to the core issues.

Book marked into LastPass, I need to get back to work.