I have a question about going out please...

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I tried my posting style on other forums, I get slaughtered. But I expect I will get socially hung drawn and quartered here eventually, I usually do. Especially as I do not agree with societies tendency to label people with HFA or other similar difficulties as disordered. I am with the its a difference group myself. Also my opinion on depression will probably get me hung...

I am just tired of being around people who never seem to enjoy anything. I used to see humans in pain and wanted to help them but after being attacked on several depression groups for one reason or another when I was only trying to help them I really don't want to be around the mentally ill anymore...they are not very understanding or nice people and they don't understand differences in how different types of depression can manifest (there is reactive as well as biochemical depression etc).

It depends on the person and how their depression affects them. I don't cope with chaotic people in my life because of my need for sameness and routine...can people not understand how a chaotic person would conflict with myself who, aside from ranting on my blogs or on forums, likes to be organised and settled and stable and routine in the real world? Who does not like conflict as I am upset by it due to my sensitive nature. I am not being mean by not wanting to be around the chaotic types, i am trying to protect my own wellfare and mental and emotional wellbeing. I simply do not have the resources to cope with them!

I always get hung...eventually

Posts too long
Writing too formal
Too much detail
I am too stubborn
Controversial opinions
Too verbose

Yadda yadda

etc.

I actually like reading posts on here by people...they are very well written, provide lots of detail to work with, are insightful and often very interesting.

It's the only forum I actually bother to read other peoples posts on...

I don't usually bother on other forums as it just seems to be lots of ass kissing going back and forth...ie

I luffs you

kiss kiss kiss kisss

did you hear what so and so did

Ohhhh no what did so and so do

oh so and so said so and so to so so and somebody else

really? OMG LOL LMFAO OMF LOL

I luffs you

kiss kiss kiss kiss

--------

At least people here talk about really interesting things....

Oh and don't confuse my online posting style with my real life one.

I rarely speak in real life for the following reasons:

1 I often don't know what to say or how to start a conversation (there are a few exceptions such as mentioning the weather whilst standing at the bus stop).

2 I struggle to carry conversations on when I do speak

3 I stick to memorising scripts but only have a very limited repertoire. I often stick to just smiling and nodding.

4 I do not like to offend, was always taught to be polite and learned early on that my observations seemed to upset people. Ergo I err on the side of caution and stick to formal polite. Yes, please, no, thank you, nice sunny weather today isn't it, very cold today isn't it, are you waiting for a bus? Excuse me do you have the time please, excuse me can you tell where x, y or z is please...etc.

That is the gist of most of my interactions when out...I don't really know how else to start a chat with someone or what to do next. I get stuck.

I don't spill my guts about my personal life as I know people do not like this and also try not to ramble about my hobbies anymore as I have learned people do not like this either. So I get stuck...I don't know what to say to them, what to do next. I am trying to make friends not alienate people or scare people away. And I don't want to hurt or offend anyone. If I do offend it is very accidental. Normally I go out of my way to try and be helpful.

Ie I was always taught to let old people get on the bus first or to open doors for people or give seat to the infirm or disabled so i do...

I also try to remember to smile at people although it can feel a bit artificial for me to do this...I had to train myself, it is not natural for me to smile at someone I don't know. I smile when I am excited to see someone yes, I am smiling at my own excitement but they do not know this and think I am smiling at them...I suppose I am in a way. If i really like someone I can sometimes be pleased to see them unless I wanted time alone with my hobbies, then I may not have wanted to interact with anyone and may be annoyed that I am being disturbed to make chit chat at a time I did not feel like it.


Online I dump my guts and ramble. I need a place to vent. The internet wins.

I get the opposite issue in real life. People think i am too quiet, do not like them or am being unfriendly.

They think I am aloof and I even changed my accent and stop using my full vocabulary because people thought I was stuck up (ie i often say "would you like a beverage" instead of "you wanna drink?". I prefer the word beverage, I think it is a lovely word and it rolls of the tongue beautifully but people think I am being snotty so i dropped it and now use what I call lazy speech (I drop the letters off the end of words to try and sound more casual...gonna or goin' instead of going, or anythin/anyfin instead of anything, drink instead of beverage, get off the bus instead of disembark...and so on)) but still not enough.

People still think I don't like them when often I either do like them or my feelings are neutral.

People also keep telling me to cheer up when I am feeling perfectly happy. I once asked my mum about as I got fed up with people telling me to cheer up and smile. I said what I am supposed to do, walk around grinning like cheshire cat or the joker from batman all day?

Just because I am not grinning inanely does not mean I am unhappy for goodness sake! I may be contentedly lost in my own thoughts. I am often lost in my thoughts. I navel gaze and ponder the meaning of things a lot. I enjoy pondering....I like to understand things.

Oftentimes, when socialising, I just don't know what to say, what to do or I am too tired to make chitty chat is all.

My therapists keep saying to relax and let it come naturally but nothing happens...I have got nothing, just blank brain syndrome.

Socialising is really really really hard! Unlike academics which is really really really easy in comparison.

Why is it so difficult? I'd rather sit a physics exam sometimes, I don't get so stuck with things like that.

Last edited by bumble on 29 Nov 2013, 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

"What is wrong with not being good at something? Why should it be shameful?"

Well you've pretty much already answered this, but here's my thoughts on the matter anyways. Because people take it upon themselves that they aren't good at something. They view it as a personal failure, just like they view success as a personal success, even if the success isn't so much to do with them as randomness.

Take easy board games we play as a kid, monopoly or sorry (Parcheesi), where it's all about rolling a die and then moving your pieces around a board. Especially with Parcheesi, you have basically no control over what the outcome, it's just a game of dumb luck. But kids will associate with being a winner or being a loser even if there was very little skill involved, even though it was obvious that there was no skill involved.

Failure at, say, getting good grades though it more complicated than a game of Parcheesi. Firstly, there's the whole question about why they're in school in the first place. Most people choose to get an education not because it's interesting, but because they need a job. If you fail at school you lose the opportunity for the career you wanted. That's distressing. Secondly, (what you don't get) is the idea that you thought you understood something, felt that you should have done well, or the feeling that you tried really hard and yet you still failed, and that that somehow means you've let yourself down. For me, my bad grades, the ones which I had that were bad, I got an honors degree, B+ overall, but that's not quite enough for someone to accept you as a master's student. Anyways, they meant that I couldn't do what I wanted, especially because they were getting worse as I went through university, not better, even though I found it more and more interesting. The shame, however, was quite innate. In fact, I've had to work extremely, extremely hard to not feel ashamed of my failures. I'm not sure I ever felt worthless though, for I've always been able to do some things and be good at some things. I've felt that I hurt too much or that life is too pointless to live in, but that wasn't tied into feeling worthless. I did have out-of-control guilt over things I shouldn't have felt guilty about.

I know that pressure of how my family and others view me is tied very strongly into the feeling of shame, even though, again, I will say that it simply feels that way. But to put things into perspective, when I finally got diagnosed with celiac disease, it was like a giant weight off my shoulders. It took away the responsibility off myself, and that was, for better or worse, the thing that let me truly absolve myself of my socially unhelpful actions (like not working). I am actually sick, look, see, there's a blood test and a tissue biopsy, quit putting pressure on me to do something! This still bothers me though when I think about it because I know I shouldn't need a doctor's note to tell me that there was something wrong in order to alleviate my shame, because it was quite obvious to myself that there was something messed up within me. And I'm quite a strong advocate for people NOT being ashamed of who they naturally are. I didn't practice what I preached, I wish I could have. I would be a better example of someone who could overcome this problem then.

Last edited by cavernio on 29 Nov 2013, 2:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.

I like learning because it is fun!

I like to learn for the sake of it, it entertains me and makes me feel happy and excited. I even enjoyed my exams. I remember coming out of my exams and saying to my colleagues at the time "I really enjoyed that" and everyone looked at me like I was crazy.

I was not joking I have fond memories of my exams. 2 hours of writing about something I found fascinating. I could explore what I knew whilst answering any questions they asked me. I would happily study even if it did not lead to a job. I also love writing essays. Essay writing is fun.

As long as I get good enough grades to stay on the course I generally don't mind what they are. I pay more attention to developing my understanding and enjoying myself.

But I have always been a little odd.

I can spend hours researching something that fascinates me or organising my collections related to my hobbies. I'd rather do that than go to a party or go clubbing. I enjoy it.

yeah, i was the same growing up. i was very proper. Precocious and well behaved. My rebellion as a kid wasn't rebelling against parents, i rebelled against stupid kids. I was a complete square. well behaved almost constantly.

Did know how to have fun though i like to think .

I do understand your disappointment at not being able to do what you wanted to do. I experienced this when I had to leave my degree. I wanted to do research or teaching and my dream went away when I could not finish due to health issues, problems with group work and social interaction and having to look after my disabled mother instead. But I could not leave my mum to fend for herself..she needed someone and I was the only family member willing to help. Everyone else buggered off and left me to it by myself.

She was in her late 60s and she was my mummy, I loved her...what else could I do?

Anyway don't be hard on yourself over your not so so good grades. Sometimes things take practice...you may improve second time around. Sometimes your main talent may lie elsewhere, you just need to find it...

It's in there somewhere and it might open doors to something better than the thing you originally wanted.

I always have back ups lined up. If I can't have my degree then I would like to develop my arts and crafts and perhaps start my own business...maybe working from home. I am looking into a pottery course as well as the Anthropology degree. The other option is to resume my writing. I was published as a teenager...perhaps I may be able to take that up again. I could look into a writing course. My English teacher did want me to go into journalism as a career. Another option is to update my office skills as any job that pays me money will do as a start...I can always work my way towards something else later on. I could combine my writing and arts and crafts as well in the form of cards (and verses to write on the inside seeing as I was good at bad poetry lol) or samplers in cross stitching for example.

Plenty of options to explore and life is a journey.

My mummy always told me not to put all my eggs in one basket. Meaning always have a back up plan or some spare eggs set aside. That way if your original eggs get broken you have some set aside for later on. You don't lose them all completely.

Don't feel bad...see it as a way of exploring your abilities or yourself...it tells you about who you are and what you can and can't do. It doesn't make you a lesser person at all, it just makes you you with all your various skill levels, abilities, talents, quirks, personality traits and so on and so forth.

Complicated critters most people are.

We can't all have the same skills in life and that is ok. Be curious about yourself and see it as a learning experience instead.

Just because society sees failure as bad that does not mean it always is. It depends on the consequences I guess and how you personally look at them.

B+ is still a very good grade. It is still impressive.

I wanted to do a Phd myself but it was more a case of curiosity on my part. I wanted to see how far up the education ladder I could go before my ability ran out. Ergo, to answer my own curiosity I would have had to push it to the point of failure anyway...so being afraid of failing would not have faired me well in my pursuit. Ergo I removed my own fear. I like over coming fear...it is why I like riding roller coasters. I am sometimes scared of them, but I can kind of enjoy that, especially when I face it and ride the roller coaster that scares me the most anyway. Gets the blood pumping and the heart rate up!

Basically my curiosity outweighs my fear of things and it is something I never seem to grow out of.

Last edited by bumble on 29 Nov 2013, 2:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.

I carried a brief case to school and wore the school blazer.

I was the poncy kid with the posh accent who carried a brief case and collected bank forms.

I'm not surprised I got bullied sometimes lol

I sometimes don't want to interact. I don't always need to interact with the people around me. I am proficient at entertaining myself.

I can like being around people but may not always want to exchange social chit chat etc with them.

At other times I may be feeling more social, but usually in short bursts and when I have a lot of energy.

I've no need to keep interacting with people 24 hours a day.

I didn't hammer home a point I was trying to make about the grades. People feel ashamed because they are made to believe that they are not trying hard enough. It's not the failure that's shaming, it's the that they didn't do more to avoid the failure. Most of us can try harder at most things do, that is where there's a feeling of shame. Your rotting vegetable example did talk about you trying harder at all, because, well, the example you gave wasn't ABOUT trying harder. Something failed somewhere but you're not sure what, but it wasn't because you neglected what you were doing.

For me right now, I'm in a choir and I joined midway through the term and I have a lot of catching up to do, and since I'm the only person singing my part for a lot of it, I absolutely have to know it 100%. Plus we sound really awesome together and we need to be focussing on musicality now, not just pitches. But did I practice yesterday? No. And I feel shame from that. Because I could have. Have I practiced today? Not enough.
What would you feel in my situation? Or is it that you would you ever be in this situation where there is an expectation on yourself that you would not meet? You very clearly state that there's nothing to be ashamed of if you try your best and fail. But there's always this overhanging idea for most people that you didn't, in fact, try your best. And it's so pervasive because, just like beauty magazines, society idolizes the successful person who's schedule is jam-packed, the person who sleeps 4 hours a night so that they can work and get an education so that their kid can have more. I don't sleep 4 hours a night, but I bet you I could, if the situation really called for it. Like if it were a matter of life or death, or some sort of crisis situation that went on even for months. If I think that I could do that, then is it not purely lazy of me to not practice for an hour today, and as such I should feel ashamed for not practicing?

It doesn't help that I guess I have what I should call anxiety about practicing, period. I have anxiety about doing anything that I know I should do, it's why I don't do it. I just want it to go away. Why then am I in a choir? Because I can't be a piece of furniture my whole life, because I can enjoy it, because performing in a choral group that blends really well can be magical. I don't always have anxiety about it, because once I get off my fanny and do it, the anxiety can go away, but then I can't always focus on doing it either. Gah, I'm getting flustered just talking about it. I feel completely dysfunctional about my inability to self-motivate. It's like there's something inside me almost physically yanking me to complacency, to do nothing.

Importantly for me, I didn't realize until not too long ago that I even had anxiety. I had a problem, but I didn't call it anxiety. So the suggestion about shame was not just about you not feeling it (which you've said you don't most of the time, you explained it really well), but it was also to suggest that perhaps you do experience some emotions that you don't understand in other people, but you just don't recognize them within yourself. Anyways, I don't think the latter is your case, you've made it very clear it's not.

Society IS about being brainwashed though isn't it. It's just that things like feelings of shame are so strongly ingrained within people that it's really quite hard to even imagine someone who doesn't experience it under most circumstances. It's so ingrained that societies in sci-fi and such almost always involve the same, basic set of human emotions, just over different or weird cultural things. But that's because that's all someone can really understand, we only understand each other because we're similar, not because we have the capacity to understand novelty like we think we do.

Also bumble, it does seem to me like you're on the spectrum.

PN

If I am aspie, I have no problem with being an aspie, it would explain a lot but:

1 I don't want to give myself a diangosis I don't have (I like accuracy)

2 I don't want society labeling me as disordered because it has a stick up its arse and is a judgemental prick about such things.

3 I really like people on the spectrum because I find them both interesting and somewhat adorable (you have the most fascinating interests and are so wonderfully quirky..I like and respect this!). I don't want to end up labeling myself falsely just because I have a liking for people with an ASD. I want to make sure I am not psychologically convincing myself I have an ASD a) because it is more preferable to being mentally ill and b) because I think it might be cool or something. If i have an ASD I want to be sure I actually have an ASD. If i don't have an ASD I'd like to carry on posting here but i want to be able to be able to say 'Hey I am an NT but I like people on the spectrum anyway because I find many of you fascinating". If I am autisic I'd also want to be able to say "hey I have an ASD too".

I don't like not knowing....it's bothering me. I do like accuracy! I am very fussy, very very fussy. Probably a bit OCD.

4 I'd like the right diagnosis as I am fed up with taking treatments that either make me worse or which don't address the crux of my problems. I am tired of going around in circles and would like to know what the hell is going on.

I'd like a resolution now. And perhaps a nice partner to settle down with, and a career and my nice quite country life and horse riding and a bit of traveling and well.....I'd either like to resolve my issues or at least be able to identify the cause of them! It would be nice.

The online tests say I am Autistic..I have not had one say I am NT but that does not mean I definitely have an ASD.

I'd like to figure this out.

I mean either way, whether I am on the spectrum or not, most of you are much easier to talk to then most NT's. No offense to NTs but I can find your communication style a little difficult to work with and your interests are a little different to mine as well. You have strange ways of viewing things, although i do not mean that in a negative way. I just find you...weird.

NTs can sometimes be adorable too but odd in a way that confuses me. Meaning they can inadvertently cause me distress sometimes. Hence my strange reactions to things people say and do.

I do things because I am passionate about them and tend to put my heart and soul in because I enjoy doing so. I am a strange soul who likes to keep busy. I also have a lot of energy when I am well. If I were into being in a choir I'd happily spend hours practicing everyday. I really really fall in love with my hobbies and am happy to spend hour upon hour working on them. In fact I'd rather not do anything else...I can neglect my other duties like my everyday chores when I REALLY get into something. When I studied for example I spent so much time in the library that the staff knew me on a first name basis. One member said they had never met anyone so diligent as I was in there doing research every night. It was not diligence...It was my pleasure! It was not work at all...I didn't feel I had to study.. I wanted to. I really really adore my hobbies to the ends of the earth and back again. I'd spend every minute of my day indulging them if I could. I wish I could it would be wonderful.

As long as i feel I have done my best that is all that matters to me, but I know society expects more. And it rejects me because I don't live up to its expectations of what a human being should be. I think society is an arse! It is mean!





Firstly only getting 4 hours sleep is bad for you health...you should not do this, even to live up to expectation. Health and fitness, especially nutrition and mental health has been a long running interest of mine, but other factors matter as well..getting enough sleep is very important and society is very silly to expect you to do otherwise! Do not try to live up to societies expectation in this way, society is sometimes very silly!

Existing on 4 hours sleep is not wise when it is not necessary. Just because you could do it in extreme circumstances does not mean you should. Do NOT be so hard on yourself!

Society is so harsh...you seem like a lovely person...society speaks through its arse don't listen to it and enjoy your choir practice. Think about how beautiful you can make your singing and concentrate on that. Do whatever you are capable of without destroying your feeling of self worth, happiness as a human being and physical and emotional health and be satisfied with that.

I do not know where all this self judgement comes from. I personally have little time for it. I do what I am able...I am driven to by my own love and passion. But at the same time I find that making self judgements distracts me from the problem solving process. Instead of judging myself harshly is it not better to focus on find a solution that works for the good of all concerned instead? Self judgement plays no part in this really..I can find solutions that benefit both myself and others who are involved without resorting to using value judgements at all.



I can experience this when I am stressed out or depressed.

In the end I put the focus on my passion for what I am doing. I wait for the surge of love to surface when I think about it before proceeding. I don't do things because I have to, I do them because I want to.

This sound selfish but it is not always.

I help people because I want to as well...I like to see people smile. I love it when someone talks to me about an interest they are passionate about, for example, because it is nice to see someone so excited about something. Rarely do I find people who are excited...most people seem to be stressed. Society does this by making them think they have to be X, Y and Z before they are worthwhile or respectable. Poppycock!

Self motivation for me comes from my passion for things. If my passion is there, so is the motivation.

Find that which you are truly passionate about, focus on that and pursue it. Your motivation will drive itself under such circumstances...if your motivation works anything like mine that is.



Society does like to brainwash aye, and it does tend to understand belief systems most similar to its own. Difference tends to be frowned upon for numerous reasons.



I do not know what I am at the moment.

Weird is about all I can ascertain!

I shouldnt have said its 'proof' that you're an aspie.

you're an introvert. Which often, but not always, goes along with being an aspie. But along with other things youve posted it does sound like you're on the autism spectrum.

It could be possible

But i say that because people on the spectrum make sense to me in a way that other people don't is all.