Do you think people with ADHD are NT?

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But nothing to do with what I said. Can anyone rescue us from arguing interminably as I persist that IMO autism is on average more severe and impairing than ADHD and Verandi persists in saying ADHD is more severe than depression?

I'd post a cat picture but can't figure out how.

I do wonder which others who have both ADHD and ASD find to be more difficult, for me it is the ASD. Which causes more difficulty for others who have both?

I would be very interested in knowing this too. I've thought about this a lot. My usual disclaimer of course is, I don't know for sure if I have an ASD. I definitely have a lot of autistic traits, but they might be subclinical, or at least less impairing than my ADHD. It's also hard for me to separate the effects of one from the other because they are so intertwined.

I think ADHD is more difficult for me, but I'm not sure. I don't even know how to rate the severity of my ASD traits. I might be more impaired by them than I realize, or I might overestimate their severity, I just have no idea.

My impulsivity and poor judgment are at their worst in social situations. So just being rather unsocial has probably saved me from the worst that could have happened. If I had better social ability I would have gotten pregnant at a very young age, become a drug addict, and god only knows what else. I would have lived a very wild lifestyle and probably would be dead by now.

Because of being an ADHD Autistic, I tend to annoy everyone. I think that my ADHD bothers other people more than being autistic does[ the H part, it makes it harder to keep from fading into the wallpaper as nice little autistics are supposed to.] The combination most often makes llife more difficult. When my obsessiveness works congruently with my ADHD excitement and creativity, though, I think I'm fairly incredible.

I have both, but I do not know. Executive function is bad, and is still bad on stimulants - not as bad, but not good, either.

I did find a research paper that indicated that people who have both experience more severe impairments relevant to both disorders as well as impairments that don't typically occur with just autism or just ADHD.

"Learning to play the NT game" in my mind means "socialization." Impaired socialization is not the only thing that can significantly impair someone's life or to lead to potentials not reached.

Yes, it is easier for me to learn and follow the social rules (except for some of them, like not interrupting people while they are speaking, small talk, and other things like that). And I have no problem reading body language. But this does not mean that I am not significantly impaired when it comes to some areas of executive functioning. So while I would agree that most people with ADHD can better learn NT-style socialization, I would disagree that this means they are automatically less impaired or more NT-like. Less impaired socially? Yes. Less impaired in all ways? No. More NT-like? No. I have met a number of people on the spectrum who are way better than I am at task completion, for example. And way better than I am at sticking to a deadline. Way better at controlling where their attention focuses.

When my kids were younger and I was around a lot of parents who were newer to this, a lot of them aspired to have their kids "become only ADHD." As if ADHD was one step closer to the "normal" that they so desperately wanted. I never understood it. My son's ADHD impacts his life in every way imaginable, and I would say he gets even less understanding than his sister. Everyone can understand that she has social skills deficits. So they do cut her a bit of slack But I honestly don't think most people even know what executive functioning is, and I also don't think that they understand that it isn't something you can just will yourself to overcome. Executive functioning issues look like laziness or willful disregard of what needs to be done. And most people I know think my son and I should just stop having it (executive dysfunction) or that if we are punished for having it, we will magically be able to do it.

My son does have a comorbid diagnosis of NLD. I think it is less impairing in his particular case. I would say the NLD is more on the mild end.

I really hope people will stop quoting me soon it's extremely agitating, I don't know why, but I can handle people disagreeing, just that being quoted makes it seem my words are a reason for opinions I think are incorrect. And I get that everyone needs to disagree with me for some reason, I just don't want it to be my words used to justify something I think is wrong.

Here is a link I found interesting about ADHD and Aspergers. http://www.aane.org/asperger_resources/ ... _adhd.html
If anyone can move from telling me I'm wrong to thinking about the issue. Please!! !! !

People with ADHD are neurodiverse.

"Neurotypical" is not a word for people who are not autistic. It's a word for people who fall roughly in the normal range for cognitive functioning and neurology.

If you want to say, "People with ADHD are not (usually) on the autism spectrum", you may say, "People with ADHD are (usually) non-autistic." Or just "not autistic". We don't need a word for the opposite of "autistic", because we can just say "not autistic".

"Neurodiverse" and "Neurotypical" are words we had to invent because there were no words for "People who have brains that work in a way that's close enough to average to be called average by the general observer," and, "People whose brains are demonstrably not average." You can't say "cognitively disabled", because some atypical conditions like synesthesia and giftedness aren't disabilities. You can't say "abnormal", because that implies disease and is rather pejorative anyhow. Thus the word "Neurodiverse", to cover a huge range of atypical brains, starting with autism but covering everything from intellectual disability, post-stroke, TBI, developmental brain issues, to savant syndrome, synesthesia, and giftedness.

Because the human brain is so unique and so different from person to person, even "neurotypical" is a rather broad range. Neurotypicals may become artists, surgeons, politicians, or soldiers; their brains are flexible and can train to deal with all of those things. They have widely varying personalities, from the introverted bookworm to the charismatic cult leader, the impulsive adrenaline-addicted extreme athlete and the careful, detail-oriented archeologist. So we can't say they're all the same--but they all think in a way that's close enough to average that they fit into the way the world works without having to make adjustments. They are also valuable as communicators and connections for the neurodiverse, because their cognitive flexibility and social talents allow them to--if they desire to do so--communicate with people who are very different from themselves. This allows the neurodiverse to contribute to their societies, when neurotypicals accept and include them, and strengthens the whole society as a result.

People with just ADHD don't have inappropriately wired brains like we on the spectrum do. While obviously have some minor issues, it is nothing like our poorly wired from birth brains.

I disagree. ADHD has a strong genetic component--not as strong as autism, but it's there. And they show symptoms quite early.

I would not call ADHD "mild". There are many mild cases, but it can be severe and disabling.

Waterfalls, I quote you because my contribution to the conversation is related to something that you said, and I don't want my comments to seem disconnected to the conversation. The "problem" with communication vehicles such as this is that they are not linear. One comment does not necessarily flow to another. Sometimes a comment is made, and a day later, someone loops back to it.

I, personally, find it very difficult to follow longer conversations unless people make references via quotations. Especially when the posts in between have taken a different path.

And it's not necessarily that I think you are wrong, just that I see it differently. Please don't take it as an attack on you personally.

Two things:

1) Brain differences: Based on current research on ADHD and ASD, my hunch is that ADHD brain is less different from NT brain than ASD brain from NT brain. If we developed a bunch of brain/cognitive/behavioral tasks for various brain functions, then I predict that ADHD brain would not show as many or as significant (positive or negative compared to NT brain) differences as ASD brain.

2) Effects of brain differences on functioning, e.g.g. school, work, social: ADHD brain differences can have verry merry berry broad impairing effects on eberryday life, so in talking about this issue, it might be useful to separate these two points. Within ASD only, should also consider brain differences vs. effects of brain differences. It seems like ASD with significant EF problems can be more impaired in functioning than ASD without these but more significant differences on wider range of brain functions. Even one really significant problem in motivation can be broad impairing effects, as motivation is so necessary for so many activities of life.

I kind of have become more ADHD and less autistic as I've gotten older.

This article might be of interest:

http://sfari.org/news-and-opinion/viewp ... y-disorder

This image shows differences in brain activity between those with autism (bottom row), those with ADHD (middle row) and controls (top row).



And this table compares some of the shared features of autism and ADHD

http://sfari.org/news-and-opinion/viewp ... hd-table-1

What is your basis for this statement, and what would you attribute the difficulties faced by people with ADHD to, if not an "inappropriately wired brain"? Also, how would you know that the problem is not present from birth? I am not asking to be oppositional. I am asking because I am curious as to how you would explain these things if it is not due to neurology, and how you think it comes to be, if not present at birth?

I think it is important to understand that all people with ADHD have at least minor issues, otherwise they would not have a disorder. I would venture to guess, though, that relatively few have "minor" issues. I would hazard to guess that most have "moderate" issues, and a few have "severe" issues. A bell-shaped curve, similar to what is present in so many other human attributes.

I think this is the crux of one of my main issues with this topic--the fact that so many people have the default view that ADHD is "mild." It can be. But that doesn't mean it always is, and the impairment suffered by those with higher levels of impairment can be quite profound. And, oftentimes, the impairment is seen as related to personal shortcomings, not neurological difference.

I think people with ASD and ADHD probably share a frustration related to this, because it is a misconception that is often shared about both groups. That if we just "tried harder" we would be able to do what NTs do naturally. Getting back to my previous explanation...I can stay organized when I "try harder" but it takes up so much energy and effort that I can't possibly sustain it indefinitely. Believe me. I have tried. I can't do it. My life would be infinitely easier if I could. But, the fact that I can do it sporadically when I am putting all of my focus into it, leads other people to believe that I can do it and that I just don't try "hard enough." It's very frustrating.

I find it to be similar to the fact that people can consciously do things with their non-dominant hand. But unless they are continuously thinking about using their non-dominant hand (to open doors, to open jars, to reach for handed items, etc), they will naturally return to their default orientation. Because it is what comes naturally. My brain is not hard-wired for a number of executive functions. It takes a lot of energy and effort to "manually over-ride" my natural thought patterns.

I imagine this experience is similar to that of people with ASD when it comes to certain social skills.

It sucks.

And in that regard, I do believe we are all "in this together" even though the "this" may not be exactly the same.

I think that is probably true for many people. The "problem" as I see it, is that somehow this is seen as a guarantee of being "more normal." I do recognize that my views are most likely skewed by my own personal experience (through my kids). But my son is not "more normal" than my daughter.