Aspergers and victim complex

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23 Apr 2014, 5:14 pm

People throw around victim complex way too often. There is such a thing as being a victim of bullying, and if you tell someone that's "life" you are putting the blame on the wrong person.

There is such a thing as learned helplessness. I think this might be a better term for what a lot of socially inept people like myself deal with.

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23 Apr 2014, 5:46 pm

diablo77 wrote:

I don't consider getting bullied a normal part of life at all. Although I think part of the problem is that many people confuse being bullied and being picked on- they are two very different things. If a few kids at school tease you, that's not the same thing as being physically attacked, constantly harassed, having your personal belongings stolen or destroyed just for fun, etc. - that's what I consider bullying, and in my case it wasn't just one or two mean kids who acted that way, it was pretty much the whole school, because I was singled out as that one kid everyone has seemingly collectively decided to hate so they can feel better than someone. It also, unlike a typical getting-picked-on situation, wasn't just for a short time and then they moved on to the next target; it went on for years until I left the school system. I'm not here trying to say I'm a victim and anyone should feel sorry for me; I actually feel strong for having survived that and gone on to have a successful and happy life, but I know that what I went through was not a normal part of growing up, not something that happens to everyone, and not something that should just be shrugged off and treated as okay in a kids-will-be-kids kind of way.

So that would mean I was never bullied by your definition. Whatever kids did then still put affect on me in the future. I didn't even use the word bully in my childhood. I just said I got teased or picked on or bugged. I didn't even know what bullying was.

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23 Apr 2014, 6:22 pm

This thought process is a big part of the reason I've done nothing for years and years now, never seeking help. Everybody has struggles, this is true but I look at my life and I look at most other people and I know it isn't the same. You want to pull yourself up with your bootstraps and you want to be "normal", I don't want anybody to think I'm lazy or a wimp but there are certain things I need help with and coming to terms with that is one of the hardest things I've ever done.

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23 Apr 2014, 8:50 pm

Dan_Undiagnosed wrote:

Very interesting post. I only clicked on it because I saw it was you Hale_Bopp. I was thinking about your YouTube channel the other day and was going to ask you why do you think your videos have so many dislikes? Do you think it has anything to do with your identifying on the spectrum? Why else would such an inoffensive small YouTube channel get so much negative attention? Just asking since I was already wondering about this before I saw this post.

A guy actually paid a service to dislike it because he was jealous. True story.

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23 Apr 2014, 8:51 pm

mila_oblong wrote:

hale_bopp wrote:

I was reading a few threads tonight.. and It seems quite common here for people to have a victim complex.

I mean saying things like "I was geeky at school and got bullied", "I didn't date until my 20s" "I had pimples" "I asked a girl out and she said "no"

Well, those all fall under a really harsh and common disorder called "life".

Why is it so hard to put your diagnosis aside and accept a lot of the problems we face are not aspergers problems or woe is me things.. they actually happen to most people! These things all happened to me - an aspie. Also to my Mum, (NT), Sister (NT) and pretty much 90% of the people I know.

I'm not sure if that means they have a victim complex, primarily because most of the time I viewed it as people were venting at a place that they felt somewhat comfortable doing so. It depends on how you see it, I guess.

It does when they want to tell people how s**t they've had it.. and they probably have. My point is so do "normal" people.

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23 Apr 2014, 8:54 pm

Verdandi wrote:

The bullying thing is kind of misrepresented. It may be that lots of children are bullied but bullying varies - some are bullied a bit here and there, and some are bullied relentlessly, and the latter is not a common experience. It is, however, more likely to happen to children on the spectrum than to many other children.

Also what Mila Oblong posted.

The latter is actually more common than you think. I disagree with the part I bolded in your post. Why do you say that? My sister got bullied "relentlessly" and she is 100% NT NO aspie traits at all. I pretty much looked at people who bullied me like they were strange and they usually backed off. I'm aspie.

From what I've heard.. my mum volunteers at a public advice place.. lots of NTs ring up about extensive severe harassment and bullying. It's definitely nowhere near an "aspie" problem.

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23 Apr 2014, 8:56 pm

skibum wrote:

About the original post, remember that in a forum you don't see the whole person or everything about him or her. It's possible that this is where some might come to vent frustration and stuff like that but in the other areas of their lives they could be very different. So to say that people have a victim complex might be a little premature if you don't really know the person. I understand what you are saying though but it's possible that we don't have a complete picture of them here so they could vent a lot here and still not have an actual victim complex.

I've been to aspie "support" groups as well and wanted to vomit when I walked out. The "support leaders" were patronising. Also there are posters here who are serial complainers who don't try and change or blame things other than aspergers.

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23 Apr 2014, 8:59 pm

marshall wrote:

Even if some tendencies are true, the phrase "victim complex" has been taken over and used by too many people who just want to put others down and dismiss struggles that are very real.

NO, you have it all wrong. That is not "victim complex". Victim complex is enjoying saying all the time all the stuff you have wrong with you so people feel sorry for you. I have been in that place, and I never want to be a "victim complex" person again.

Last edited by hale_bopp on 23 Apr 2014, 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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23 Apr 2014, 9:00 pm

Verdandi wrote:

Aharon wrote:

I agree with this. While anyone can be bullied, I can see where people with ASD are perhaps more likely to be bullied and less apt to deal with it appropriately, making them more likely, perhaps, to become bullied more often and more extensively because our "easy target" ratios may be higher then NT's of the same age. It would be interesting to see some statistics on this topic.

Here you go:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/survey-find ... m-bullied/ - 63% of autistic children bullied, three times more likely than their NT siblings to be bullied.

New data show children with autism bullied three times more frequently than their unaffected siblings (link)

And a study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22945284

Also another article discussing trauma due to bullying. (link)

^did no one see this post? looks to me like there is some evidence suggesting one is more likely to be bullied as a child if one is on the spectrum.

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23 Apr 2014, 9:03 pm

starvingartist wrote:

Verdandi wrote:

Aharon wrote:

^did no one see this post? looks to me like there is some evidence suggesting one is more likely to be bullied as a child if one is on the spectrum.

I don't think you can catergorise children to "on the spectrum" and "not on the spectrum". This girl at primary school had 6 toes for example. This boy had big thick glasses. Another kid had freckles and red hair, another kid had poor parents. If 90% of kids bully kids on the spectrum, i'd bet that 90% of kids would be horrible about the above things and many, many more.

There is no evidence to suggest that being on the spectrum is any worse than having something else wrong with you that makes you less "blend in". The fact is, there are so many things kids get bullied about, kids on the spectrum are a tiny % of that.

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23 Apr 2014, 9:07 pm

dianthus wrote:

hale_bopp wrote:

Those are just matter of fact statements about reality, I don't take any of that to be having a victim complex.

Sigh.

Those are examples of several posters who go on wanting people here to feel sorry for them over and over again. I was not implying that those things specifically mean "victim complex".

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23 Apr 2014, 9:11 pm

hale_bopp wrote:

I don't think you can catergorise children to "on the spectrum" and "not on the spectrum". This girl at primary school had 6 toes for example. This boy had big thick glasses. Another kid had freckles and red hair, another kid had poor parents. If 90% of kids bully kids on the spectrum, i'd bet that 90% of kids would be horrible about the above things and many, many more.

There is no evidence to suggest that being on the spectrum is any worse than having something else wrong with you that makes you less "blend in". The fact is, there are so many things kids get bullied about, kids on the spectrum are a tiny % of that.

in answer to what i bolded: isn't that what child psychiatrists/psychologists do?

as to the rest, certainly any sort of difference means a child is more likely to be bullied, no one is trying to say that only autistic children have to deal with that. and certainly there are lots of other online forums for people with other types of differences where people discuss how difficult it can be growing up being bullied all the time. this just happens to be a forum for people on the spectrum, so you're going to hear people talking about the different ways autism has impacted their lives negatively--including being bullied. i don't think discouraging people from talking about issues in their lives for fear of being labelled by people like you as "perpetual victims" is all that helpful. people come here for support, so we do our best to support each other. isn't that the point?

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23 Apr 2014, 9:18 pm

starvingartist wrote:

hale_bopp wrote:

In answer to the bolded part, yes, but that wasn't what I meant. I meant there are more than 2 categories of children.

Personally I feel being a yes man all the time gives people no actual long term help. It's saying that it's ok to have nasty and probably false thoughts about yourself. Teaching myself not to victimise myself has helped me more than anyone coming here and saying "poor you".

It's like bringing an obese person hamburgers to keep them happy because the long term reality of losing weight for true health and happiness is too hard.

By all means there are times here you have to tread lightly. I accept that. I don't go near posts in the haven for example unless I have some very good but delicate and suportive advice for someone. That's what that forum is for. I'm not talking about those times. I'm talking about people on the spectrum who constantly complain over and over again about how what they have makes up all their problems.

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23 Apr 2014, 9:29 pm

hale_bopp wrote:

starvingartist wrote:

hale_bopp wrote:

i think what you're describing is co-dependency rather than support. when i said we support each other i didn't mean we all pat each other on the back and say "poor you" and that's it. it's more about letting someone know they're not alone plus passing on any useful advice on the topic you might have, as well as just trying to understand each other and our various perspectives. i wouldn't "support" an obese person by bringing them food--i would tell them: i know what it's like to be overweight because i've been there myself, and it sucks; but things have gotten better for me and they can for you too; here are some of the things i've done that have helped me, etc etc.

edit*--in regards to your last sentence....lots of people who aren't on the spectrum do that too, except it's "woe is me because of alcohol/schizophrenia/poverty/allergies/it rained today and i don't like rain". just ignore those people and try to help the people you think genuinely want help and not just pity.

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23 Apr 2014, 10:51 pm

hale_bopp wrote:

Verdandi wrote:

Of course bullying is not just an aspie problem, the point is no not everyone gets constantly bullied and ostracized throughout school. People with a disorder such as autism that might make them come off as a bit strange can make it more likely for them to be singled out...its not always the case but yes having a difference people notice unfortunately seems to attract bullying a lot of times. Also that sort of thing can be very damaging whether it happens to someone with autism or someone neurotypical either way it can do a lot of damage to ones mental health.

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23 Apr 2014, 10:53 pm

hale_bopp wrote:

dianthus wrote:

hale_bopp wrote:

Those are just matter of fact statements about reality, I don't take any of that to be having a victim complex.

Sigh.

Those are examples of several posters who go on wanting people here to feel sorry for them over and over again. I was not implying that those things specifically mean "victim complex".

And how exactly do you know that is the intention when someone posts a comment like that? Do you have the ability to read minds or something?

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