When did you discover nonverbal was important?

Post Reply New Topic

^ This, and our differences in dealing with ambiguity and miscommunication.

In typical communication talking about ambiguity and openly discussing possible interpretations is a big no-no.

In contrast, even if the ambiguity can't be resolved, I dissect verbal or written communication to understand the possible range of interpretations, and don't give much weight to any non-verbal signals, certainly not on the spot, within fraction of a second. I have learned to keep thoughts about interpretations to myself unless I am dealing with a trusted friend or colleague.

Fluid typical communication glosses over ambiguities and misunderstandings, and relies on split-second responses to non-verbal signals, to reassure the other party that there is a mutual understanding at an emotional level, even if there are big gaps in mutual understanding regarding the subject under discussion. The difference can be summarised in terms of reversed priorities in establishing relationships:

Aspie communication:
A1. Establish a mutual understanding of facts and events. This is easy, as we can use words for this and interact repeatedly until a conclusion is reached. From the typical perspective this is seen as rudeness and arrogance. We may be sent corresponding non-verbal signals. Our conversation partner is in mode T1 (see below).
A2. Establish an emotional link. This is hard, as we often even lack the words to do this. By the time we get round to it, our conversation partner is already confused or angry.

Typical communication:
T1. Establish an emotional link. This is intuitive, it occurs largely subconsciously, and takes very little mental effort. And yet, we don't seem to react to it in a timely manner. Something must be wrong.
T2. Establish a mutual understanding of facts and events. This is hard, and if in doubt, it is best to use ambiguous statements in order not to break the emotional link. We are confused, and continue in mode A1.

I found out it was important after I joined WP.

Mid-twenties when I heard about autism.

^THIS is something I definitely agree with. It's unfortunate, because it would be a compromise between our communication styles, and make things easier for us - but the tragic irony is it would likely make us look just as weird, if not weirder, than if we hadn't acknowledged it at all. Example: you as an Aspie guy are on a date with a woman, and she gives some look downwards while wrinkling the corners of her mouth for a second. You ask "did you just make that expression because you're thinking about something? Because you're bored? Or is something bothering you?" (Yeah, good look getting a 2nd date after that, buddy!!)

Indeed, I've always believed our problem is not "static" facial expression recognition - studies have shown we perform about as well as NTs on such tests - it's maintaining the dynamic that's challenging, and we have to stop to consciously interpret what someone might be thinking or feeling in the context of the conversation, and whether they might be offended - it's unlikely they'll say directly even with prompting. Trying to get them to clarify what they might have meant by a certain nuance will be greeted with more nuance. Sometimes it feels like we're dealing with a Japanese interlocutor

I had no "epiphany" - I simply got better at it over time.

probably around 16. I didn't even know that smiling is considered friendly until I was about 14.

i still haven't discovered such a thing.

BINGO!

Exactly. I didn´t discover this before DX.
I was very observant very early and thought a lot about facial expressions and what they meant. I got quite over-sensitive in that respect and very careful - but apart from the most obvious, I remained left with my imagination, which could be very drastic. It was puzzling.
Now I believe, that I am fairly good at it - at 61
Just the other day, I actually saw a microexpression in someones face. It completely opposed her attitude and I don´t quite know what to make of it yet.

In my childhood people always called me stupid because I couldn't understand hidden meanings and non-verbal gestures.
Now They think I'm genius and I still don't understand non-verbal gestures.

I knew about it but did not have any idea of it's extreme importance until my diagnoses in my mid 50's. An exception was eye contact in my early 40's because /i had a boss that told me and emphised that.

I always knew it was important, but I think when I started dating it became critical. IN most other situations I could get by without non-verbal communication, but when dating, if you can't read the body language, you either make a fool of yourself making a move when it isn't an option, or miss out on the goodies, when you could have.

Interesting. I never really rated nonverbal communication as absolutely critical for romantic success, I just saw it as a possibly useful thing among many possibly useful things. I'm still not sure how many of the gems of wisdom I acquired could rightly be called nonverbal communication skills. I tended to view the dating thing as a Sherlock Holmes mystery, I would ponder all kinds of observations I'd made about the women I was interested in, and about how other people seemed to work.

Here is an example, I recall going to a concert with a friend (female) in my early twenties. She had bought several tickets for friends, and the girls (my friend + 3) decided to get a hotel to stay out after the concert, where we all met at to carpool to the concert. I worked with 2 of the girls, and the others I met that night, were nice with me all evening. When we get back to the hotel, one of the girls I had just met that night asked me not to leave yet, while she got some things from the room, and walk her to her car, as she was not staying. This to me seemed as a normal request, as it was very late, a poorly lit parking lot, for her to ask. Once I got her to her car, she kissed me, gave me her phone number, and said she wanted to see me again. Up until that point, I had no idea she was remotely interested in me. The next day, my friend said she heard/figured that would happen, as we had been flirting all night, which was a total shock to me. She was cute, and nice, but I had not really been flirting (which I have never been good at) with her, to me, I was treating her the way I was being just as friendly as I was to the other three, and, I had no idea she was single, as they had been talking about boyfriends off/on all night, I thought they were all in relationships.

I say critical, because most of the time it seems that flirting is non-verbal, or the verbal flirting can be misidentified friendliness. You can have success without it, particularly if the other person is very confident and open about what they want, as in the example above, but how many opportunities did I miss out on because I had no idea, nor was it pointed out to me that the other girl was flirting with me.

Yes it doesn't look like much, but there's an element of "caveman protects cavegirl" there. I think most women who aren't "interested" would be rather wary of asking that.


You might not have been making many of the stereotypical "moves." Some people use the word flirting in a very broad sense, to cover anything they feel seems to be going that way, and I guess that's valid. Even just getting on well socially, the frequency of smiles and looking at each other will very likely go up. I was once told I'd been giving a girl "the eye" a lot, but I hadn't noticed at the time, and still put it down to my curiosity, but then, if a boy is curious about a girl, and allows it to show, maybe that's all "the eye" is?


That would have thrown me off the scent too, at first.

Yes it doesn't look like much, but there's an element of "caveman protects cavegirl" there. I think most women who aren't "interested" would be rather wary of asking that.

I think this is more of a personality trait, as I tend to be protective of others around me. I've also read, and I can't recall where, that this is somewhat of a common trait among people on the spectrum.

Tone I discovered as a tween.

Body language I was a late teen.