Dan Aykroyd was NOT officially diagnoaed
29 Jul 2023, 5:31 am
bee33 wrote:
I cannot for the life of me imagine why it matters whether a celebrity or anyone else claims or believes that they are on the spectrum. I can scarcely imagine anything that matters less.
I get that you think he is trivializing what it means to have ASD. But he's not. That's an implication that you are reading into it. It's one person's experience and one person's perception, which might not even be constant. He could be wrong or delusional or he could be right but not feel the need to investigate it further. Why do you care so much?
And why would he be benefiting from it? Most of us do not benefit from telling people we have ASD. Neither does anyone else who has a disability. Usually it's more advantageous to hide it to avoid being discriminated against, or accused of malingering.
I agree!! !
I get that you think he is trivializing what it means to have ASD. But he's not. That's an implication that you are reading into it. It's one person's experience and one person's perception, which might not even be constant. He could be wrong or delusional or he could be right but not feel the need to investigate it further. Why do you care so much?
And why would he be benefiting from it? Most of us do not benefit from telling people we have ASD. Neither does anyone else who has a disability. Usually it's more advantageous to hide it to avoid being discriminated against, or accused of malingering.
_________________
"I'm bad and that's good. I'll never be good and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me."
Wreck It Ralph
29 Jul 2023, 5:39 am
I suppose what people are really saying does it matter if someone who looks and acts NT falsely claims to be part of a very vulnerable and marginalised group that relies on public awareness to highlight their real everyday problems.
Does it matter if this trivialises their problems in the public sphere if they not only don’t appear to have many difficulties but later claim they never were diagnosed or had the condition, made an effort to find out despite no barriers for them to do so.
I suppose it’s a question that goes beyond just disability but other groups like race etc…
_________________
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends upon the unreasonable man."
- George Bernie Shaw
29 Jul 2023, 8:12 am
carlos55 wrote:
I suppose what people are really saying does it matter if someone who looks and acts NT falsely claims to be part of a very vulnerable and marginalised group that relies on public awareness to highlight their real everyday problems.
Does it matter if this trivialises their problems in the public sphere if they not only don’t appear to have many difficulties but later claim they never were diagnosed or had the condition, made an effort to find out despite no barriers for them to do so.
I suppose it’s a question that goes beyond just disability but other groups like race etc…
What people are really saying is that YOU are judging people unfairly. You don't have enough information about him and his personal life to say the things YOU are saying. But I am guessing that you would probably treat me the exact same way because I also look and used to act NT
Does it matter if this trivialises their problems in the public sphere if they not only don’t appear to have many difficulties but later claim they never were diagnosed or had the condition, made an effort to find out despite no barriers for them to do so.
I suppose it’s a question that goes beyond just disability but other groups like race etc…
_________________
"I'm bad and that's good. I'll never be good and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me."
Wreck It Ralph
ASPartOfMe
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29 Jul 2023, 9:48 am
Outside of their work what celebrities say and do should not matter but it does. As far as Ackroyd is concerned outside of us I don’t think when he says carries much weight. His heyday was 40 years ago. If Taylor Swift says she is Autistic that is whole different story.
Of course a celebrity can do and say what they want about their personal issues. The celebrity has the option to be quiet about these matters. Dan Ackroyd went public so it would be expected people are going to have an opinion about what he said. So there is no fairness issue. IMHO the problem with Carlos55’s opinion he is assuming nefarious motivation based on him being an actor. Like I mentioned back in 2013 his claiming he was diagnosed in the early 1980s raised questions because knowledge of Aspergers so rare back then. But it does not mean the motive was nefarious. Back in 2013 what might have happened is he was thinking he is an Aspie and he mixed up getting a Tourette’s diagnoses with an Aspergers diagnosis in the early ‘80s.
Fast forward to today and saying I have a touch of Aspergers is not the same as saying I am an Aspie. If people because of him think Aspergers is just a gift that is on them, not him.
_________________
“Self Acceptance is a process not a performance”
“You are autistic enough. And you always have been”
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity.
29 Jul 2023, 10:09 am
skibum wrote:
carlos55 wrote:
I suppose what people are really saying does it matter if someone who looks and acts NT falsely claims to be part of a very vulnerable and marginalised group that relies on public awareness to highlight their real everyday problems.
Does it matter if this trivialises their problems in the public sphere if they not only don’t appear to have many difficulties but later claim they never were diagnosed or had the condition, made an effort to find out despite no barriers for them to do so.
I suppose it’s a question that goes beyond just disability but other groups like race etc…
What people are really saying is that YOU are judging people unfairly. You don't have enough information about him and his personal life to say the things YOU are saying. But I am guessing that you would probably treat me the exact same way because I also look and used to act NTDoes it matter if this trivialises their problems in the public sphere if they not only don’t appear to have many difficulties but later claim they never were diagnosed or had the condition, made an effort to find out despite no barriers for them to do so.
I suppose it’s a question that goes beyond just disability but other groups like race etc…
You probably misunderstood what I meant this isn’t an attack on those waiting to be diagnosed or ordinary people who feel they are autistic.
If AsPartIfMe comment above is true we are led to believe someone born in 1952 or 28-38 years old in the eighties was diagnosed with a condition not officially recognised at the time.
In the pre internet age a person would have to physically search the annals of psychiatric history in some dusty library to find any record of Asperger’s.
But the point is he possibly/ probably lied for years saying he had a neurodevelopmental condition when he didn’t and probably knew he didn’t when he could have found out but didn’t
So I’m entitled to criticise that
_________________
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends upon the unreasonable man."
- George Bernie Shaw
29 Jul 2023, 2:02 pm
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Outside of their work what celebrities say and do should not matter but it does. As far as Ackroyd is concerned outside of us I don’t think when he says carries much weight. His heyday was 40 years ago. If Taylor Swift says she is Autistic that is whole different story.
Of course a celebrity can do and say what they want about their personal issues. The celebrity has the option to be quiet about these matters. Dan Ackroyd went public so it would be expected people are going to have an opinion about what he said. So there is no fairness issue. IMHO the problem with Carlos55’s opinion he is assuming nefarious motivation based on him being an actor. Like I mentioned back in 2013 his claiming he was diagnosed in the early 1980s raised questions because knowledge of Aspergers so rare back then. But it does not mean the motive was nefarious. Back in 2013 what might have happened is he was thinking he is an Aspie and he mixed up getting a Tourette’s diagnoses with an Aspergers diagnosis in the early ‘80s.
Fast forward to today and saying I have a touch of Aspergers is not the same as saying I am an Aspie. If people because of him think Aspergers is just a gift that is on them, not him.
Yes, Well said!
Of course a celebrity can do and say what they want about their personal issues. The celebrity has the option to be quiet about these matters. Dan Ackroyd went public so it would be expected people are going to have an opinion about what he said. So there is no fairness issue. IMHO the problem with Carlos55’s opinion he is assuming nefarious motivation based on him being an actor. Like I mentioned back in 2013 his claiming he was diagnosed in the early 1980s raised questions because knowledge of Aspergers so rare back then. But it does not mean the motive was nefarious. Back in 2013 what might have happened is he was thinking he is an Aspie and he mixed up getting a Tourette’s diagnoses with an Aspergers diagnosis in the early ‘80s.
Fast forward to today and saying I have a touch of Aspergers is not the same as saying I am an Aspie. If people because of him think Aspergers is just a gift that is on them, not him.
_________________
"I'm bad and that's good. I'll never be good and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me."
Wreck It Ralph
29 Jul 2023, 2:03 pm
carlos55 wrote:
I suppose what people are really saying does it matter if someone who looks and acts NT falsely claims to be part of a very vulnerable and marginalised group that relies on public awareness to highlight their real everyday problems.
Does it matter if this trivialises their problems in the public sphere if they not only don’t appear to have many difficulties but later claim they never were diagnosed or had the condition, made an effort to find out despite no barriers for them to do so.
I suppose it’s a question that goes beyond just disability but other groups like race etc…
When a celebrity talks about a condition or about having it, even if they are wrong or let's assume even lying about having it, it actually HELPS bring attention to that condition and to the difficulties of the people who suffer from it and experience its symptoms and its difficulties. So your entire complaint is backwards and makes no sense. You're just mad at Dan Aykroyd and are, as a response to being mad, constructing a reason why you should be mad.
Does it matter if this trivialises their problems in the public sphere if they not only don’t appear to have many difficulties but later claim they never were diagnosed or had the condition, made an effort to find out despite no barriers for them to do so.
I suppose it’s a question that goes beyond just disability but other groups like race etc…
29 Jul 2023, 2:08 pm
carlos55 wrote:
skibum wrote:
carlos55 wrote:
I suppose what people are really saying does it matter if someone who looks and acts NT falsely claims to be part of a very vulnerable and marginalised group that relies on public awareness to highlight their real everyday problems.
Does it matter if this trivialises their problems in the public sphere if they not only don’t appear to have many difficulties but later claim they never were diagnosed or had the condition, made an effort to find out despite no barriers for them to do so.
I suppose it’s a question that goes beyond just disability but other groups like race etc…
What people are really saying is that YOU are judging people unfairly. You don't have enough information about him and his personal life to say the things YOU are saying. But I am guessing that you would probably treat me the exact same way because I also look and used to act NTDoes it matter if this trivialises their problems in the public sphere if they not only don’t appear to have many difficulties but later claim they never were diagnosed or had the condition, made an effort to find out despite no barriers for them to do so.
I suppose it’s a question that goes beyond just disability but other groups like race etc…
You probably misunderstood what I meant this isn’t an attack on those waiting to be diagnosed or ordinary people who feel they are autistic.
If AsPartIfMe comment above is true we are led to believe someone born in 1952 or 28-38 years old in the eighties was diagnosed with a condition not officially recognised at the time.
In the pre internet age a person would have to physically search the annals of psychiatric history in some dusty library to find any record of Asperger’s.
But the point is he possibly/ probably lied for years saying he had a neurodevelopmental condition when he didn’t and probably knew he didn’t when he could have found out but didn’t
So I’m entitled to criticise that
Please, tell me more about everything that was going on in his personal life. Please, explain why he lied and didn't find out when he could have. Please, explain to me what priorities he had in his life and all of the issues that he has chosen not to disclose publicly that might he might have been dealing with in his life. And please have him come here and apologize to us personally that his journey and understanding of his own self doesn't match exactly how we would want to him do it.
_________________
"I'm bad and that's good. I'll never be good and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me."
Wreck It Ralph
29 Jul 2023, 2:12 pm
bee33 wrote:
carlos55 wrote:
I suppose what people are really saying does it matter if someone who looks and acts NT falsely claims to be part of a very vulnerable and marginalised group that relies on public awareness to highlight their real everyday problems.
Does it matter if this trivialises their problems in the public sphere if they not only don’t appear to have many difficulties but later claim they never were diagnosed or had the condition, made an effort to find out despite no barriers for them to do so.
I suppose it’s a question that goes beyond just disability but other groups like race etc…
When a celebrity talks about a condition or about having it, even if they are wrong or let's assume even lying about having it, it actually HELPS bring attention to that condition and to the difficulties of the people who suffer from it and experience its symptoms and its difficulties. So your entire complaint is backwards and makes no sense. You're just mad at Dan Aykroyd and are, as a response to being mad, constructing a reason why you should be mad.Does it matter if this trivialises their problems in the public sphere if they not only don’t appear to have many difficulties but later claim they never were diagnosed or had the condition, made an effort to find out despite no barriers for them to do so.
I suppose it’s a question that goes beyond just disability but other groups like race etc…
I`m not mad at Dan Aykroyd he didn't kill anyone as far as i know, but I'm entitled to criticise a public person on something they did publicly for reasons I've already mentioned.
_________________
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends upon the unreasonable man."
- George Bernie Shaw
29 Jul 2023, 2:39 pm
carlos55 wrote:
bee33 wrote:
carlos55 wrote:
I suppose what people are really saying does it matter if someone who looks and acts NT falsely claims to be part of a very vulnerable and marginalised group that relies on public awareness to highlight their real everyday problems.
Does it matter if this trivialises their problems in the public sphere if they not only don’t appear to have many difficulties but later claim they never were diagnosed or had the condition, made an effort to find out despite no barriers for them to do so.
I suppose it’s a question that goes beyond just disability but other groups like race etc…
When a celebrity talks about a condition or about having it, even if they are wrong or let's assume even lying about having it, it actually HELPS bring attention to that condition and to the difficulties of the people who suffer from it and experience its symptoms and its difficulties. So your entire complaint is backwards and makes no sense. You're just mad at Dan Aykroyd and are, as a response to being mad, constructing a reason why you should be mad.Does it matter if this trivialises their problems in the public sphere if they not only don’t appear to have many difficulties but later claim they never were diagnosed or had the condition, made an effort to find out despite no barriers for them to do so.
I suppose it’s a question that goes beyond just disability but other groups like race etc…
I`m not mad at Dan Aykroyd he didn't kill anyone as far as i know, but I'm entitled to criticise a public person on something they did publicly for reasons I've already mentioned.
29 Jul 2023, 2:52 pm
bee33 wrote:
carlos55 wrote:
bee33 wrote:
carlos55 wrote:
I suppose what people are really saying does it matter if someone who looks and acts NT falsely claims to be part of a very vulnerable and marginalised group that relies on public awareness to highlight their real everyday problems.
Does it matter if this trivialises their problems in the public sphere if they not only don’t appear to have many difficulties but later claim they never were diagnosed or had the condition, made an effort to find out despite no barriers for them to do so.
I suppose it’s a question that goes beyond just disability but other groups like race etc…
When a celebrity talks about a condition or about having it, even if they are wrong or let's assume even lying about having it, it actually HELPS bring attention to that condition and to the difficulties of the people who suffer from it and experience its symptoms and its difficulties. So your entire complaint is backwards and makes no sense. You're just mad at Dan Aykroyd and are, as a response to being mad, constructing a reason why you should be mad.Does it matter if this trivialises their problems in the public sphere if they not only don’t appear to have many difficulties but later claim they never were diagnosed or had the condition, made an effort to find out despite no barriers for them to do so.
I suppose it’s a question that goes beyond just disability but other groups like race etc…
I`m not mad at Dan Aykroyd he didn't kill anyone as far as i know, but I'm entitled to criticise a public person on something they did publicly for reasons I've already mentioned.
I`m not going to explain again the logical conclusion is there if you read the facts.
Bringing public attention to a serious condition for many is no good if it trivialises it in the public space which i feel he did lets just agree to disagree.
_________________
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends upon the unreasonable man."
- George Bernie Shaw
ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 68
Gender: Male
Posts: 39,637
Location: Long Island, New York
29 Jul 2023, 10:47 pm
carlos55 wrote:
Rather he just went round saying he was autistic for years for some sort of perceived personal benefit.
In 2013 he told the Daily Mail he was diagnosed in the early 80s.
In 2015 in an interview, he claimed he was not diagnosed and seemed eager to move on to another topic.
In 2023 he says he knows he has a touch of Asperger's but has not been medically diagnosed.
I have found no evidence he has talked about this topic beyond these three times. I do not view that as "going around saying he was autistic for years"
In 2015 I was upset with him for the reasons of perceived harm you have been discussing.
Right now what I think is that while Aspergers is a thing for him it is far from crucial. He probably thinks about it as often as you and I think about the color of our hair. Being that casual about the subject he has no clue he is offending people.
He is not constantly going around saying I have Aspergers, with the attitude of Look at me I'm special, I'm interesting.
It might seem he is doing the above because the media still refers to that old 2013 Daily Mail interview and his name seemingly comes up on every famous Aspies list. That is not on him it is on us.
_________________
“Self Acceptance is a process not a performance”
“You are autistic enough. And you always have been”
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity.
