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When will neurodiversity finally be accepted?

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ASPartOfMe
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01 Jul 2015, 7:49 pm

Lukecash12 wrote:
olympiadis wrote:
Lukecash12 wrote:
Does it feel like a violation to change this or that? No one can decide this for you and it will have a direct effect on your success and happiness in life, success and happiness being things you have to define for yourself along with a healthy understanding of responsibility. It's a hard world that you're growing up in, and I can say from personal experience that I am okay with all of the changes I've made in the five decades I've had.


It sounds to me as though you would have us all learn to wear masks when around NTs. That is not acceptance. That's assimilation.
Yes it feels like a violation, and sometimes even worse than that.
That's great that you are okay with all of the changes you've made in five decades. How about you stop assuming or expecting other people to be just like you and okay with the same changes you're okay with?

Your success at conformity or assimilation into social structures does not make you better than the rest of us.

I think many here have already tried their best to do what they can to cope; some to the point of destroying themselves, and some are just tired and at the end of their ropes.

Instead of hoping for the ability to compromise oneself to an even greater level, many are just hoping for some more acceptance and understanding, and a little less socially driven abuse.

For myself, I honestly do not want the NTs to have to change themselves for me. I'd much rather see a separate space created for the NDs where there is much less built-in structural conflict. Then when NDs feel like compromising to interact with NTs, then it will be completely their choice to do so willingly, and not a forced situation like that of a prisoner interacting with a prison guard (keyholder).


Well what it sounds like to you is not what I literally said. What I was stressing was that we live in a real world and there are consequences to either decision which are naturally going to be unfair. Different people will have different feelings about what is and isn't a violation. One should notice from a more careful look at my last post that I don't expect or assume anyone is going to do what I did myself.

What I am trying to foster is self awareness and people being conscious of how the world really is, instead of coming up with fantasies like a place cordoned off purely for the use of neurologically atypical people. What happens then? Do they just provide for us all in our little isolated environment? How does such a thing happen? And what is or isn't violating about us changing ourselves? Other people of many different neurological makeups learn to cope and change in order to get what they want out of life, that is just called succeeding in the real world.


Compromise is fine, compromising oneself so much that one becomes unaware of who one is not good. Been there, done that. It is very difficult to tell the difference sometimes.


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goofygoobers
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01 Jul 2015, 7:51 pm

Lukecash12 wrote:
olympiadis wrote:
Lukecash12 wrote:
Does it feel like a violation to change this or that? No one can decide this for you and it will have a direct effect on your success and happiness in life, success and happiness being things you have to define for yourself along with a healthy understanding of responsibility. It's a hard world that you're growing up in, and I can say from personal experience that I am okay with all of the changes I've made in the five decades I've had.


It sounds to me as though you would have us all learn to wear masks when around NTs. That is not acceptance. That's assimilation.
Yes it feels like a violation, and sometimes even worse than that.
That's great that you are okay with all of the changes you've made in five decades. How about you stop assuming or expecting other people to be just like you and okay with the same changes you're okay with?

Your success at conformity or assimilation into social structures does not make you better than the rest of us.

I think many here have already tried their best to do what they can to cope; some to the point of destroying themselves, and some are just tired and at the end of their ropes.

Instead of hoping for the ability to compromise oneself to an even greater level, many are just hoping for some more acceptance and understanding, and a little less socially driven abuse.

For myself, I honestly do not want the NTs to have to change themselves for me. I'd much rather see a separate space created for the NDs where there is much less built-in structural conflict. Then when NDs feel like compromising to interact with NTs, then it will be completely their choice to do so willingly, and not a forced situation like that of a prisoner interacting with a prison guard (keyholder).


Well what it sounds like to you is not what I literally said. What I was stressing was that we live in a real world and there are consequences to either decision which are naturally going to be unfair. Different people will have different feelings about what is and isn't a violation. One should notice from a more careful look at my last post that I don't expect or assume anyone is going to do what I did myself.

What I am trying to foster is self awareness and people being conscious of how the world really is, instead of coming up with fantasies like a place cordoned off purely for the use of neurologically atypical people. What happens then? Do they just provide for us all in our little isolated environment? How does such a thing happen? And what is or isn't violating about us changing ourselves? Other people of many different neurological makeups learn to cope and change in order to get what they want out of life, that is just called succeeding in the real world.


I don't expect the world to cater to me, but I would love it if more people saw me as a human being and less like a freak of nature.



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01 Jul 2015, 8:01 pm

I believe that will happen soon, Goofy, as you move from the world of adolescents to the world of adults.

Adults, in general, have less time to speculate about your "freakishness," and more time to think about how they will achieve success, and how they will get married and take care of their kids. Their world is a wider one. The variety of people they meet is wider. They begin to see people as people, and not as "nerds, jocks, freaks, etc." They are not under the influence of what may be be called "high school ethics." By and large, people out of high school--and especially out of college--have grown out of that crap.

As long as you don't threaten a person's livelihood, you're seen as being a member of the world, and hence worthy of respect because of that.



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01 Jul 2015, 8:05 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Lukecash12 wrote:
olympiadis wrote:
Lukecash12 wrote:
Does it feel like a violation to change this or that? No one can decide this for you and it will have a direct effect on your success and happiness in life, success and happiness being things you have to define for yourself along with a healthy understanding of responsibility. It's a hard world that you're growing up in, and I can say from personal experience that I am okay with all of the changes I've made in the five decades I've had.


It sounds to me as though you would have us all learn to wear masks when around NTs. That is not acceptance. That's assimilation.
Yes it feels like a violation, and sometimes even worse than that.
That's great that you are okay with all of the changes you've made in five decades. How about you stop assuming or expecting other people to be just like you and okay with the same changes you're okay with?

Your success at conformity or assimilation into social structures does not make you better than the rest of us.

I think many here have already tried their best to do what they can to cope; some to the point of destroying themselves, and some are just tired and at the end of their ropes.

Instead of hoping for the ability to compromise oneself to an even greater level, many are just hoping for some more acceptance and understanding, and a little less socially driven abuse.

For myself, I honestly do not want the NTs to have to change themselves for me. I'd much rather see a separate space created for the NDs where there is much less built-in structural conflict. Then when NDs feel like compromising to interact with NTs, then it will be completely their choice to do so willingly, and not a forced situation like that of a prisoner interacting with a prison guard (keyholder).


Well what it sounds like to you is not what I literally said. What I was stressing was that we live in a real world and there are consequences to either decision which are naturally going to be unfair. Different people will have different feelings about what is and isn't a violation. One should notice from a more careful look at my last post that I don't expect or assume anyone is going to do what I did myself.

What I am trying to foster is self awareness and people being conscious of how the world really is, instead of coming up with fantasies like a place cordoned off purely for the use of neurologically atypical people. What happens then? Do they just provide for us all in our little isolated environment? How does such a thing happen? And what is or isn't violating about us changing ourselves? Other people of many different neurological makeups learn to cope and change in order to get what they want out of life, that is just called succeeding in the real world.


Compromise is fine, compromising oneself so much that one becomes unaware of who one is not good. Been there, done that. It is very difficult to tell the difference sometimes.


I absolutely sympathize and agree with this.


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01 Jul 2015, 8:15 pm

goofygoobers wrote:
Lukecash12 wrote:
olympiadis wrote:
Lukecash12 wrote:
Does it feel like a violation to change this or that? No one can decide this for you and it will have a direct effect on your success and happiness in life, success and happiness being things you have to define for yourself along with a healthy understanding of responsibility. It's a hard world that you're growing up in, and I can say from personal experience that I am okay with all of the changes I've made in the five decades I've had.


It sounds to me as though you would have us all learn to wear masks when around NTs. That is not acceptance. That's assimilation.
Yes it feels like a violation, and sometimes even worse than that.
That's great that you are okay with all of the changes you've made in five decades. How about you stop assuming or expecting other people to be just like you and okay with the same changes you're okay with?

Your success at conformity or assimilation into social structures does not make you better than the rest of us.

I think many here have already tried their best to do what they can to cope; some to the point of destroying themselves, and some are just tired and at the end of their ropes.

Instead of hoping for the ability to compromise oneself to an even greater level, many are just hoping for some more acceptance and understanding, and a little less socially driven abuse.

For myself, I honestly do not want the NTs to have to change themselves for me. I'd much rather see a separate space created for the NDs where there is much less built-in structural conflict. Then when NDs feel like compromising to interact with NTs, then it will be completely their choice to do so willingly, and not a forced situation like that of a prisoner interacting with a prison guard (keyholder).


Well what it sounds like to you is not what I literally said. What I was stressing was that we live in a real world and there are consequences to either decision which are naturally going to be unfair. Different people will have different feelings about what is and isn't a violation. One should notice from a more careful look at my last post that I don't expect or assume anyone is going to do what I did myself.

What I am trying to foster is self awareness and people being conscious of how the world really is, instead of coming up with fantasies like a place cordoned off purely for the use of neurologically atypical people. What happens then? Do they just provide for us all in our little isolated environment? How does such a thing happen? And what is or isn't violating about us changing ourselves? Other people of many different neurological makeups learn to cope and change in order to get what they want out of life, that is just called succeeding in the real world.


I don't expect the world to cater to me, but I would love it if more people saw me as a human being and less like a freak of nature.


I very much agree with Kraftie's response to this. You aren't a freak and will not always be treated like such, especially when you start to find yourself more often in mature company. Your peers will take time to grow up, as will you, and it is going to be a hard process.

When I was your age I was mostly making friends that were either in their mid twenties, almost thirty, or in their thirties, and while I certainly wasn't as mature as them I could relate to them more easily and they were really helpful in my maturing process. If you could make some older friends like I did, you'll be much more likely to find acceptance and help. I was a little lucky when it came to this because my brother is six years older than me and we've always had the same group of friends, so it practically felt like we were all peers. Maybe you have some older family members, and it would be great if they were siblings, that can introduce you to their friends?


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01 Jul 2015, 8:22 pm

Between society's ignorance and overall closed-mindedness (if that's the correct term,) I think it will be quite some time before neurodiversity is fully accepted. We could educate some, but there will always be others who refuse to learn.


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01 Jul 2015, 8:30 pm

But we must not give up. We must not remain stagnant because of the POTENTIAL for gains not to be fully realized.

Even if we make partial progress, at least we made some progress. It's better than none.



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01 Jul 2015, 9:31 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
But we must not give up. We must not remain stagnant because of the POTENTIAL for gains not to be fully realized.

Even if we make partial progress, at least we made some progress. It's better than none.

That is very true, if we all make a small bit of progress, it could add up over time. (I've just always been a bit pessimistic about/towards modern society, mostly due to a few bad experiences.)


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01 Jul 2015, 10:38 pm

Lukecash12 wrote:
goofygoobers wrote:
Lukecash12 wrote:
olympiadis wrote:
Lukecash12 wrote:
Does it feel like a violation to change this or that? No one can decide this for you and it will have a direct effect on your success and happiness in life, success and happiness being things you have to define for yourself along with a healthy understanding of responsibility. It's a hard world that you're growing up in, and I can say from personal experience that I am okay with all of the changes I've made in the five decades I've had.


It sounds to me as though you would have us all learn to wear masks when around NTs. That is not acceptance. That's assimilation.
Yes it feels like a violation, and sometimes even worse than that.
That's great that you are okay with all of the changes you've made in five decades. How about you stop assuming or expecting other people to be just like you and okay with the same changes you're okay with?

Your success at conformity or assimilation into social structures does not make you better than the rest of us.

I think many here have already tried their best to do what they can to cope; some to the point of destroying themselves, and some are just tired and at the end of their ropes.

Instead of hoping for the ability to compromise oneself to an even greater level, many are just hoping for some more acceptance and understanding, and a little less socially driven abuse.

For myself, I honestly do not want the NTs to have to change themselves for me. I'd much rather see a separate space created for the NDs where there is much less built-in structural conflict. Then when NDs feel like compromising to interact with NTs, then it will be completely their choice to do so willingly, and not a forced situation like that of a prisoner interacting with a prison guard (keyholder).


Well what it sounds like to you is not what I literally said. What I was stressing was that we live in a real world and there are consequences to either decision which are naturally going to be unfair. Different people will have different feelings about what is and isn't a violation. One should notice from a more careful look at my last post that I don't expect or assume anyone is going to do what I did myself.

What I am trying to foster is self awareness and people being conscious of how the world really is, instead of coming up with fantasies like a place cordoned off purely for the use of neurologically atypical people. What happens then? Do they just provide for us all in our little isolated environment? How does such a thing happen? And what is or isn't violating about us changing ourselves? Other people of many different neurological makeups learn to cope and change in order to get what they want out of life, that is just called succeeding in the real world.


I don't expect the world to cater to me, but I would love it if more people saw me as a human being and less like a freak of nature.


I very much agree with Kraftie's response to this. You aren't a freak and will not always be treated like such, especially when you start to find yourself more often in mature company. Your peers will take time to grow up, as will you, and it is going to be a hard process.

When I was your age I was mostly making friends that were either in their mid twenties, almost thirty, or in their thirties, and while I certainly wasn't as mature as them I could relate to them more easily and they were really helpful in my maturing process. If you could make some older friends like I did, you'll be much more likely to find acceptance and help. I was a little lucky when it came to this because my brother is six years older than me and we've always had the same group of friends, so it practically felt like we were all peers. Maybe you have some older family members, and it would be great if they were siblings, that can introduce you to their friends?


None of my half siblings have anything to do with me, so they couldn't help. I don't really have any family members that live near me that could introduce me to their friends.



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02 Jul 2015, 1:45 am

olympiadis wrote:
I'd much rather see a separate space created for the NDs where there is much less built-in structural conflict

Oh, an institution. :| They used to do that. Replace neurodiverse with "lunatics" and you go back in time hundreds of years. Sounds to me like modern day lunatic asylums. Is that really better than being allowed to be part of society?



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02 Jul 2015, 2:44 am

Most people I know consider me mentally ill, just because I'm weird, have trouble socializing & expressing my emotions and because I get meltdowns. They think I should be placed in an insane asylum.


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02 Jul 2015, 11:47 am

iliketrees wrote:
olympiadis wrote:
I'd much rather see a separate space created for the NDs where there is much less built-in structural conflict

Oh, an institution. :| They used to do that. Replace neurodiverse with "lunatics" and you go back in time hundreds of years. Sounds to me like modern day lunatic asylums. Is that really better than being allowed to be part of society?



Not institutions. ND communities. ND societies.



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02 Jul 2015, 12:11 pm

olympiadis wrote:
iliketrees wrote:
olympiadis wrote:
I'd much rather see a separate space created for the NDs where there is much less built-in structural conflict

Oh, an institution. :| They used to do that. Replace neurodiverse with "lunatics" and you go back in time hundreds of years. Sounds to me like modern day lunatic asylums. Is that really better than being allowed to be part of society?



Not institutions. ND communities. ND societies.

What would be the difference?



olympiadis
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02 Jul 2015, 1:49 pm

iliketrees wrote:
olympiadis wrote:
iliketrees wrote:
olympiadis wrote:
I'd much rather see a separate space created for the NDs where there is much less built-in structural conflict

Oh, an institution. :| They used to do that. Replace neurodiverse with "lunatics" and you go back in time hundreds of years. Sounds to me like modern day lunatic asylums. Is that really better than being allowed to be part of society?



Not institutions. ND communities. ND societies.

What would be the difference?


control.



iliketrees
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02 Jul 2015, 2:00 pm

olympiadis wrote:
iliketrees wrote:
olympiadis wrote:
iliketrees wrote:
olympiadis wrote:
I'd much rather see a separate space created for the NDs where there is much less built-in structural conflict

Oh, an institution. :| They used to do that. Replace neurodiverse with "lunatics" and you go back in time hundreds of years. Sounds to me like modern day lunatic asylums. Is that really better than being allowed to be part of society?



Not institutions. ND communities. ND societies.

What would be the difference?


control.

Great... :|



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02 Jul 2015, 2:11 pm

It's going to take time, but it will come. One of the main problems at the moment is that while there's no shortage of awareness[i][/i] of ASD, society's understanding of autism is still very poor. As other people here have said, it is often regarded as a form of insanity or a criminal pathology.

One area of hope is the growing number of highly articulate and less socially-inhibited young Aspies who are now beginning to find their voice and become active. This is the generation that has been diagnosed in childhood and received the help and support that earlier generations didn't get because at the time, autism was virtually unknown.

So I think there's reason to be optimistic.