Mobbing in the Workplace - a danger for us?

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Aaaahhh. Social dynamics and not genetic...in other words, our social relations which are subject to modification if we so choose.

Indeed...
I mean "true dat"...

It isn't a mystery to me...
Just my opinion of course, but I personally think it self evident that this innate moral compass is the result of a quirk of autistic genetics...
It is just the way we are...
Nature of the beast...
Simples...

Regarding whistle blowers:
A study many years ago identified that a high rate/incidents of individuals were on the autistic spectrum...
Why am I not surprised?

Back on topic:
For those who have been mobbed, may I strongly suggest you consider the possibility that you have Complex Post-traumatic stress disorder (C-PTSD)...

"The Symptoms of Complex PTSD

Above all, to be considered for a diagnosis of C-PTSD, the target must experience an extended period under the control of another person. After this has been established, other symptoms must be taken into account.

According to Julia M. Whealin, Ph.D. and Laurie Slone, Ph.D., in the May 22, 2007 version of the US Department of Veterans Affairs site, Complex PTSD, there are symptoms that would occur if someone has been chronically victimized, including:

Persistent sadness, explosive anger; inhibited anger; suicidal thoughts;
Forgetting traumatic events or reliving them. Feeling detached from one's mind or body;
Feelings of helplessness, shame, guilt and stigma. One may feel that they are different than other people;
Attributing total power to the abuser. Preoccupation with the perpetrator, possibly becoming obsessed with revenge;
Social isolation, distrust in others or repeatedly searching for a rescuer; and
A loss of faith or a sense of hopelessness and despair."
http://www.workplacebullying.org/2011/09/30/suite101/

While the article deals with bullying, it does related-to/connect-with the stresses and symptoms derived from mobbing, imo...

Sorry but I can't agree with your Complex PTSD quotes. I think they are inappropriate here. In my experience, the term is actually code in mental health professions for "Borderline Personality Disorder". Borderlines commonly appear to have suffered very adverse events in early and middle childhood which forced them to adapt as best they could at the time.

We are talking in this thread about workplace context and mobbing of adults, and to insinuate that these strong and brave survivors have a personality disorder isn't supported anywhere in the formal research literature. We don't.

I'm sure you meant well though this is really inappropriate to the survivors here.

Last edited by B19 on 07 Sep 2015, 3:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

Same...
Basically keeping to oneself isn't a bad option...

I'm no expert on this...
Happy to listen to a good argument...

I watched a documentary of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder recently and believe I can identify with some of the symptoms, in particular, irrational/disproportionate anger...

Could you explain to me why you think "Borderline Personality Disorder" has anything to do with the effect of years, if not decades, of psychological abuse via mobbing?

One of the articles I was reading included this:
"During long-term traumas, people are held in physical and/or emotional captivity. They are under the influence of their abuser and unable to get out of the situation they are in. Examples include:

Prisoner of War camps
Long-term domestic violence
Repeated, severe physical abuse
Childhood sexual abuse"
http://www.workplacebullying.org/2011/09/30/suite101/

Most of the above doesn't involve childhood events...
I think you may be thinking about something else...

BTW, I am one of "these strong and brave survivors " also...
2 decades worth...
I think I earned my stripes to contribute here...

The "mobbing" I was at the receiving end of was not in the work place, btw...
It involved real life and online situations which lasted over two decades...

"Mobbing in the context of human beings means bullying of an individual by a group in any context,[disputed – discuss] such as a family, friends, peers, school, workplace, neighborhood, community, or online."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobbing

Pepe, you have asked of me:


"Could you explain to me why you think "Borderline Personality Disorder" has anything to do with the effect of years, if not decades, of psychological abuse via mobbing?"

I have never, ever stated that BPD is related to years or decades of mobbing. So I cannot oblige your request.

The idea of such a linkage is repugnant to me. Please don't misrepresent me like that.

Did you know that: the DSM 4 dropped Complex PTSD from the DSM because it was the same thing as Borderline Personality Disorder, and it was decided that it was pointless to retain two different names for the one condition. So in psychiatry and professional psychology, to this day, C-PTSD is code for "Personality Disorder, Cluster B, Borderline". They often use the term C-PTSD even now for lay people/audiences, because it is considered less 'stigmatising' a label.

If mobbing happened to you, would you join the conversation by sharing your experience with us? I don't want this thread to be derailed by irrelevancies.

I have never considered myself as suffering from any personality disorder despite the years of mobbing at work and in my personal life. I would hardly consider remedial action such as greater discretion when dealing with others a disorder rather sensible precautions. Of course, as one develops a deeper understanding of ones cognitive difference, one is even more acutely aware of the complex social dynamics that confronts one daily but I think its hasty to lumber oneself with unnecessary labels...my pennies worth.

^ Good point

Regarding misrepresenting you:
There was an obvious misunderstanding...

What about you misrepresenting me when you stated:
"to insinuate that these strong and brave survivors have a personality disorder isn't supported anywhere in the formal research literature. We don't."
I didn't insinuate anything of the sort...
I didn't even know that C-PTSD was the same as BPD...

My experiences have nothing to do with *workplace* mobbing, so I would be off topic...
But it is your thread and you have asked me to elaborate...

Perhaps I should start by explaining why I have this quirky humorous style of posting...
It was initially the result of a defensive needs, which evolved over 3 decades...

30 odd years ago I didn't understand what it meant to be "mildly autistic"...
I was diagnosed earlier but but didn't think anything of it until I started researching it 16 years after the dx...
What I did understand was that I was constantly attacked on-line for no apparent reason other than I had a penchant for tell the truth as I saw it and having a game playing style that was in variance with the norm...
I was also ridiculed for being stupid, a spaz and a "ret*d", their words, not mine...
I was also threatened on more than one occassion with direct physical violence and innumerous more subtle intimidation tactics...
30 years ago this was very threatening...
These days I couldn't give a frack...
To quote Nietzsche:
“That which does not kill us, makes us stronger.”...

But initially, to help combat the feeling of inadequacy due to the responses to my particular communication style, I adopted humour...

From this initial atmosphere of fear, intimidation, confusion, humiliation, eventually sprouted the "green shoots" of creativity...
And here I am now...
In all me creative glory, govner...

The on-line harassment campaign was very comprehensive and extended to various forums and on-line games...
It infested a number of gaming clans I had joined to the point of there being no point in being a member...
And as I said, it lasted for around two decades...

Needless to say, I found online neurotypical interaction extremely obnoxious/toxic back then...
Toxic to the point where I rarely backed down and (eventually) enjoyed dissecting and grilling the NT irrational emotionalistic nonsense...with barbeque sauce...
There were times where the situation because intolerable and I left in disgust...
I may have ended up having a metaphorical black eye and bloody nose, but you should have seen the other guy...

But the on-line mobbing was nothing in comparison with the what happened in real life...
If you like I could expand...
Though I am actually on a diet...

Thank you Pepe for explaining the background there. It helps me understand where you are coming from, and I think the misunderstandings are now resolved

...

My eyes are now suffering from what I call "reading burn" - after trawling through so much stuff trying to find something more specific to HFAs/mobbing, as they seem to me a particularly vulnerable population (including in academia). Finally - just now - I found something, citing the vulnerability of gifted Aspergers people.

So here it is:

http://www.kwesthues.com/Kotleras-mobbing2011.pdf

Right! I'm exhausted! It's off to bed for me. Goodnight everyone!

I don't believe complex PTSD was ever in the DSM. PTSD however has had many threads devoted to it on wrong planet and although labels often don't serve anyone well, in the service of accuracy I think PTSD can result from mobbing, and mobbing can even extend to threats and violence and to placing coworkers who are perceived as bad and who the group decides to extrude at risk including by leaving them without needed backup and assistance that is part of the coworkers job description to provide, so in every way, it is possible to develop PTSD (not referring to complex PTSD) from some types of mobbing unless I am misunderstanding the term mobbing?

There's reports from experts in textbooks that speak of PTSD from group bullying in those with an ASD. Some people end up avoiding people forever at their own detriment due to such.

Waterfalls, Dillogic, yes, PTSD is a probable result for nearly all if not 100% of the unfortunate victims of mobbing (which is the infliction of psychological and emotional violence upon a targeted victim). Victims experience distress on all levels I think: psychologically (eg PTSD, shutdown, loss of capacity to trust, damaged confidence), emotionally (distress and pain) spiritually (despair, damaged/loss of faith) behaviourally (withdrawal, isolation et al) and physically (in the worst case, heart attacks and stroke from the immense stress caused to the autonomic system). Lehmann's work refers to and records all such outcomes.

Perhaps we could go so far as to say: mobbers are potentially killers. They may - some certainly do- cause the death of victim-targets. In those cases, psychological homicide has occurred, though the death is regarded and recorded as suicide. It reveals a lot about our society, I think, and what that reveals is pause for thought..

Several of the professional writers stress the need for this distinction, which I agree with 100%:

"it is very important for professionals to remember that these victims are suffering from the deliberate infliction of psychological injury resulting from violence by others, not from mental illness"

My guess is that until the professional community takes this on board and makes their understanding clear, many of the victims (whose trust is already in shreds) will not seek help; they will isolate rather than seek good support for their healing journey, because they suspect (correctly) that awareness/understanding of mobbing is just not out there, even where you would most expect it to be. This ignorance turns into victim-blaming, which is so entrenched that it represents society's denial of responsibility as a whole - a whole culture of turning a blind eye to what it does not wish to acknowledge (yet).

PTSD survivors can and do recover - given time, support, validation, acceptance of their suffering, accurate naming of what happened to them, belief - the deeply human things we can do to support and show our human care to another. If the very different condition of Complex-PTSD is to be mistakenly applied to the victims, that is more psychological violence for them. I shudder to think of that. I think the mislabelling at that so vulnerable stage could quickly lead to such a total loss of trust in humanity that suicide would become very likely.

However those perceptions are only my own speculations and opinions. For some reason, as I sit here and contemplate the horror of the entirety of this - and the massive ignorance out there, as I see it - a kind of spiritual weariness comes over me. I hope it passes.

To me the tragedy is how the term complex PTSD is twisted into victim blaming not that it is used or misused but how groups of people turn those who are repeatedly hurt into being responsible, similar to the phenomenon of mobbing even if the actions of the victims may be different, the scapegoating of victims which I think is partly a way to not feel at risk ourselves if we can make it the victims fault.

I detest having to pretend something isn't wrong to minimize being mobbed.

Yes, the immaturity and denial of society as a whole. Collude with it and support the denial or name it and suffer the consequences. It is awful. What a choice.