NTs Keep Score

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KenM
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13 Apr 2007, 5:05 am

I read that book. It came accross to me as the author was basically saying: "I married a horrible person thats not normal, this is how I deal. is anyone you are dating show these signs, run away so you don't have to deal with it." :cry:

SeriousGirl
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13 Apr 2007, 10:35 am

KenM wrote:

No, I don't think it is the same book. Are you referring to Asperger's in Love by Maxine Aston:

http://www.maxineaston.co.uk/books/

Yes, she is toxic, to say the least.

The book I referenced is by Ashley Stanford:

http://www.amazon.com/Asperger-Syndrome ... 964&sr=1-1

Asperger Syndrome and Long-Term Relationships

It is the first positive book on AS-linked marriages (her term) that I've read. Even though she references other literature that is negative, she is positive in her outlook and loves her husband dearly. She made an effort to understand him and even says she has been somewhat "aspergated," meaning she's acquired some of her husband's traits. I couldn't imagine a more supportive spouse, once she understood her husband's differences.

The book is intended for NTs to understand aspies in relationships, she expresses her love and acceptance for her aspie hubby in every chapter with paragraphs such as this:

Perhaps attaining a deeper understand of the AS traits, and then accepting their natural neurobiological intricacies will lead us to a healthier, happier, less stressed existence with these wonderfully delightful creatures who teach us new lessons every day.

I am very concerned about the perception that living with an aspie creates a mental illness, the so-called "Cassandra Affective Disorder" in spouses. Ashley Stanford debunks this while showing that most of the problems in an AS-linked marriage arise from not understanding AS, and that the NT spouse must learn to speak Aspergese and meet the aspie halfway to create a life they both can enjoy.

This Amazon review was written by an aspie:

Well written book by one strong woman. What about a woman like that for me too? I have Aspergers. Ashley Stanford really lays out good arguments about why people with Aspergers can marry and not believe garbage that Aspies should be forced celibates. She said being told you shouldn't marry is like telling Rosa Parks to sit only in the back of the bus. Fact is Aspies just function differently than the normal person and the rules of marriage are altered. People with Aspergers just communicate differently. The best communication is on a phone, text messaging, or talking to your partner in the dark where body language is useless. Body language is the key to understanding the opposite sex, we Aspies just are worse than the average guy at understanding it. Should be required reading for psychiatrists and pyschologists who think Aspies should live lives of forced celibacy. Perhaps I bought the book because I had a female friend in high school named Ashley, and she was gorgeous, too.

This book is on my "Best of AS Books" list.

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ZanneMarie
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13 Apr 2007, 10:45 am

SeriousGirl wrote:

KenM wrote:

The book is intended for NTs to understand aspies in relationships, she expresses her love and acceptance for her aspie hubby in every chapter with paragraphs such as this:

Perhaps attaining a deeper understand of the AS traits, and then accepting their natural neurobiological intricacies will lead us to a healthier, happier, less stressed existence with these wonderfully delightful creatures who teach us new lessons every day.

I am very concerned about the perception that living with an aspie creates a mental illness, the so-called "Cassandra Affective Disorder" in spouses. Ashley Stanford debunks this while showing that most of the problems in an AS-linked marriage arise from not understanding AS, and that the NT spouse must learn to speak Aspergese and meet the aspie halfway to create a life they both can enjoy.

I think she is right on the money. The key is understanding why those traits occur and acceptance that it is just different. That's what lowers the stress.

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13 Apr 2007, 10:51 am

walk-in-the-rain wrote:

I must confess that I get extremely frustrated with parents, especially when they express their chldren's maniuplation, motives, and other NT "reasons" for behavior they don't understand. How can they teach their children perspective taking when it is SO obvious they do not try to understand AS so they can also take the perspective of their child? They are unable to show any apsie empathy and the sad fact is that they don't even realize it.

Parents need to educate themselves about AS by reading as many books as possible, including aspie and autie biographies, as well as books on sensory issues and core differnces such as Theory of NT Mind. I have come to the conclusion that we do have a well-developed Theory of Aspie Mind. The problem is for NTs and aspies to understand each other's minds.

The aspie child needs to learn NT social behavior because without it, he/she will be at a severe disadvantage in navigating life and relationships. But it needs to be approached as a difference not a disorder and the parents need to acknowledge that they are struggling with learning about the way aspies think too.

Most importantly, parents need to stop making their aspie children responsible for their negative feelings and stop trying to reach their kids on an NT emotional level.

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Sedaka
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13 Apr 2007, 10:59 am

ZanneMarie wrote:

Sedaka wrote:

lol that's why i'm thinkin it's a good idea to cruise the strip for guys in my science lab... least they're already lit-savy about autism... if not ever faced with it in RL ^_^

Plus they are logical and analytical. It's not really a job that appeals to extremely extroverted feelers. It would probably would be a good place. Your brain could be their perpetual project and they brain could be yours.

it is a job too... and is why all that unproductive fighting just became too much in all my relationships... which is how i've come to realize...

what i need is an emotional caretaker cause i can be SO impudent

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SeriousGirl
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13 Apr 2007, 11:03 am

Sedaka wrote:

what i need is an emotional caretaker cause i can be SO impudent

What do you mean by caretaker?

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Sedaka
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13 Apr 2007, 11:08 am

KimJ wrote:

Quote:

When I say, "I'm not angry, I'm fine", that should be it. You should either trust me because you know me well enough, or leave me alone.

i can't tell you just how many fights of this kind that could have been avoided had the other person taken me at my word.

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NoCriminalIntent
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13 Apr 2007, 11:09 am

SeriousGirl wrote:

You need to learn how to speak Aspergese:

I love it. Aspergese. The native tongue of Aspergia, a small mountianous country far from the maddening crowd. I want to move there so bad.

tit for tat. Used to call it collecting stamps. It always came up in fights with people and I could never understand it. 'You did this and this and this and thats why I can do this and this'. Its a linear thought pattern. Something that happened in the past that needs to be corrected so it can find a place in the present. Aspies usually dont do it. Dont know why though. I guess cause just being in the present can be such a struggle, no time to worry bout the past.

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Sedaka
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13 Apr 2007, 11:10 am

Hazelwudi wrote:

Krex: Ah, you have what I used to. To whit, heartwarming (and completely unfounded... and contradictory to all experience or sense...) faith in human nature.

See how far it serves you for armor. Heh.

armor is exactly what you shouldn't need in a relationship.

and generally, if you go in wearing it... you come out wearing it

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Sedaka
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13 Apr 2007, 11:17 am

walk-in-the-rain wrote:

ZanneMarie wrote:

NTs can adapt if they are give the right information in the right way. What they cannot do and neither can we is to figure this out magically with such strange, emotional driven information. It makes the Aspie/Autie feel bad about themselves and to be honest, doesn't help the NT much either. Both sides end up frustrated. The average NT just wants to understand in a way they can. Saying our problem is behavioral is a bad way to start off. We need to quit waiting for others to find a better way and find it ourselves. We have the know how and the reason to do it. Everyone would benefit if we did.

I have been on a couple of parent groups (online) for a while and I don't think it is just that they don't understand but would be willing to change if this was explained to them. I was explaining about how sensory overloads are and how this mom could help her son by building trust and not by forcing the issue. Even knowing that I am someone with sensory issues I was told that they didn't want their kid to be avoidant and of course there is the thinking that AS behavior is all about being manipulative. A therapist on the group supported what I said and he was thanked for being so helpful (lol). SO I think the idea is that if it comes from another NT is it fine - but advice or perspective from someone on the spectrum is not considered equally valid. So I am not sure we are even in a position right now where we can simply speak for ourselves because there are NT's who do not think those on the spectrum are capable. We still need NT interpreters to confirm or validate our points. I think we need to be much more vocal as a community - but there is a long way yet it seems and large groups like Autsim Speaks seem intent on keeping those on the spectrum in their place.

these are the kind of things that i would like to have instilled in the public value system. i hope to teach classes someday on such topics at a college level and "ideally" have evening classes that will hopefully allow more parents to come after work and audit the class or something. that coupling with funding research for science bio gradstudents for neuro or similar program tracks... through a type of gk-12 program, where they take all their neuro bio theyr'e learning and apply it to teaching autistic (and other) kids in local school systems... give them a chance to put their ethics to work and involve themselves in their research on a higher level.

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SeriousGirl
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13 Apr 2007, 11:22 am

NoCriminalIntent wrote:

Yes, that's why I think the theory of reciprocal altruism makes so much sense. NTs also expect "repair" when you don't say or do the right thing. If you don't make the repair, or don't make it quickly enough, you get labled as someone not to be friends with, a emotional cheater, so to speak.

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SeriousGirl
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13 Apr 2007, 11:30 am

Hazelwudi wrote:

The main problem with Aspie men is that they don't understand one simple fact...

Other people matter.

Perhaps they don't matter to you on an emotional level. However, you can bet your bottom dollar that they matter to themselves, and you'd damned well better learn to manipulate that to your advantage if you want access to the good things in life.

What do you mean by this? You've made such a sweeping generalization without any facts or examples.

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Sedaka
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13 Apr 2007, 11:31 am

SeriousGirl wrote:

Sedaka wrote:

what i need is an emotional caretaker cause i can be SO impudent

What do you mean by caretaker?

just someone who can actively work with my emotional misusing... cause i have always described my emotional responses to things as off... never knew why until reading about AS...

i tend to be overly defensive cause i have hard time telling if someone's really upset with me... being mean... teasing... and i'm only just now beginning to take reigns on all these reactions...

i need someone who doesn't take my intial reaction as "me fully comprehending the situation and reacting appropriately"... meaning someone to help watch for me to trip over stuff in certain types of social exchange that is that much more important in relationships

i know they'll never be able to read my mind... but i already feel like i have to divine enough things on a daily basis as is, lol

just want someone to try and train themselves to at least have it occur to them that i might be misunderstanding things... much the same way i am having to train myself to think... "they're joking... just relax, dangit" and avoid all these inapproapriate emtional responses i have reflexively cropping up in my mind to any random thing they say.

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Astilius
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13 Apr 2007, 11:34 am

I've read bits of "AS and long Term Relationships" and it's quite a good read. Indeed, it has altered the way my wife has the house decorated as she now knows that I get easily overloaded with lots of pictures in a room (which settles her).

NoCriminalIntent
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13 Apr 2007, 11:46 am

Hazelwudi wrote:

The main problem with Aspie men is that they don't understand one simple fact...

Other people matter.

Not true at all. Its a question of how people matter. If you need to fill your void with ego games played with others, than thats what matters to you. If you want honesty and warmth with no ego head games, than thats what matters. I choose the latter, you can choose whichever you want.

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ZanneMarie
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13 Apr 2007, 12:03 pm

Sedaka wrote:

ZanneMarie wrote:

Sedaka wrote:

lol that's why i'm thinkin it's a good idea to cruise the strip for guys in my science lab... least they're already lit-savy about autism... if not ever faced with it in RL ^_^

I wouldn't give up hope. It ends up being a mix of many different things (voice, patience, intelligence, interests, willingness, understanding, compromise, etc.) that just seem to gel with you. In the end that person may not be someone anyone else (Aspie or NT) might find acceptable, but instead of making you tense, they calm you; instead of making you want to go hide, you are comfortable with them around; instead of just feeling like a stranger in a strange land, you suddenly feel that they can understand you even when they aren't like you. It is rare, I'd be the last one to deny it, but it can happen so don't give up. When it does happen, it is extraordinary.

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