Effeminate men, testosterone and Autism

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Wow...I'm glad you weren't Queen Elizabeth's advisors. You just set equality back about 150 years ago when they tried to blame racial differences and their beliefs of their inferiority on ...oh let's seeeeee......
Skull size and variations...ya knowwww. things like that....
Ya knowwwww....when women couldn't be serial killers.....Couldn't commit violent crimes....couldn't wage war....ohhh how many dowagers and empresses, queens, monarchs, etc, etc litter history?
Or how about the debate that's going on because such overly simplistic guidelines are probably the biggest reason that Autism in females goes under detected?
Quick hide the legs!! Men can't control themselves!! !
Oh! The horrors!! !!

Or, how about the fact that although the brain chemistry is different in some ways the behaviour is more enforced by societal standards. Or are you denying the transgender crowd that are female but identify with male or vice versa? Are you trying to seriously apply such a simplistic attitude as, "Well, the brain chemistry is different" to what has been demonstrably the biggest straight jacket in history? Such overly simplistic and overly general guidelines tried to enforce in the past?

And, my personal observations are completely valid. Are you trying to imply that I am not truthful? Why would you seek to invalidate my experiences? I do not see you citing studies and proof to back your claim up.

Some "scientists" dislike "anecdote."

Maybe not. What if there is a different imbalance?
a) Proper level of T, but overly high levels of Estrogen
b) Proper level of T but other required chemicals are not in balance to allow it to work properly
c) Something else could be out of whack. Testosterone and Estrogen are not the only chemicals at work here.

You mentioned that depression lowers the T levels. But, lower T levels can also create depression like symptoms and then lead into depression. I just question the chicken and egg paradox issue here.

Well, when it or if it gets to citing case studies, then anecdote is off the table. But, until then, my anecdote is just as valid as the other person's.

Can't you see that I'm agreeing with you?

My anecdote is just as valid as your anecdote, too

Well, crap....I totally missed that!! !! LOL!! !! !
Now, I hear the theme looping through my brain...."The Three Stooges" version of "3 Blind Mice".

It's all bullcrap.

The only thing that's valid is evaluating the individual, rather than the whole gender.

Men are this, women are that.....just doesn't apply to everybody.

If a woman wants to be protected, and the man is willing to protect....who cares?

If a woman doesn't want to be protected, and the man accedes to that...who cares?

Not only that, but the roles can reverse while in the relationship. Right now, my wife is taking charge as I get through this. Totally had to start wearing boxers.........Does it quite well too

I confess to not wanting my wife to "take charge" too much.

She does "take charge" in house matters, though--that's okay.

But as far as her being the boss---hell no! No way, Jose!

I get enough bosses at work!

I get that. I'm pretty much the same way. But in all the women I have been involved with in 55 years, she's the only one that stepped up to the plate. Had #2 done so instead of abandoning me, I may not have wound up in the hospital. First time someone has taken care of me. I'm going to use that wisely to get a grip on things and keep plugging forward.

By the way, my wife is the ultimate tomboy. Walks like a man, cusses like a man (in Chinese...her English cussing is actually funny when she does it), does all the cliche 'little boy' bathroom humor, and I mean all of them, but when she's puttin' on the Ritz, well...I hear Irving Berlin when we go out.

Edit: She's not being the boss so to speak. She's just taking up the slack and taking care of me and things that I'm finding difficult right now. But, she can be bossy as hell....

You're assuming too much here.

Women can be aggressive and men can be passive; what I'm talking about here are two large groups and their averages. Men on average, have behavioral differences unique to them compared to women (and vice versa), ones which can be objectively measured by using sex-neutral tests (you remove the cultural aspects of gender).

Generally, what I listed is why females tend to be missed more; they don't come to the attention of teachers and whatnot. Some boys are the same way too (passive ones). But, more boys end up getting identified due to challenging behavior that's just an extreme form of typical behavior that boys display. This is current thinking too, just FYI and all.

As I've always said here, the 5:1 ratio for males to females seem to be accurate as it's the same for more severe autism--they're identified in almost all cases no matter their sex. You figure the ratio is the same for AS due to the disorder being generally the same thing. The large ratios, such as 15:1 you see for AS, are probably wrong for this reason, and females are missed due to sex-based behavioral differences. If a person behaves and gets by with schooling, there's little need for them to come to the attention of support services.

Anecdotes don't matter because you're only one person. Mine don't matter either. The only thing that matters are comparative studies when we're dealing with a medical condition. Logical deductions are fine, of course. It mostly makes sense to me for what the professionals say.

I see how females and males with AS can often appear androgynous due to not caring for cultural norms. Liking pink and purple colors when you're a male, for example (and wearing clothes in that color). This is different than real physical sex-based differences, however.

Aaaaand this has all stopped making sense to me.

Until you start to cite sources, you're just spouting opinions here.

Seriously, cite a source.

Just search for "Extreme Male Brain Autism"; there's plenty of articles and studies freely available, and it was put forward by Simon Baron-Cohen based on Hans Asperger's observation that:

This is in relation to the social isolation, the lack of small talk, and the focused mind; things we call "male intelligence".

For say, aggression, Attwood put this (which is pretty much what I recalled; I disagree with him in that it's obvious to me why this is, and you don't even need to look for studies that show men are more overtly aggressive by utilizing physical violence, and it's distinct from culture); Asperger noted the increased aggression too:



Of course, the increased aggression can be due to the symptoms themselves, and you can say normal people would respond the same way if given the same challenges. This makes sense. Though, that males lash out more physically, is a trait of being male. So, a bit of both makes the most sense--whether the challenges are making the extreme male aggression or it's brain differences in those with autism, well, I don't think they've done a study on that yet.

Last edited by Dillogic on 13 Jan 2016, 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Not doing your work for you. Until you pony up, this engagement is over.

Here's the water; drink if you wish; there's plenty more, but these should suffice (2nd one is probably the best):

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/do ... 1&type=pdf
http://cogsci.bme.hu/~ivady/bscs/read/bc.pdf
Sex difference in the human brain, their underpinnings and implications
The Essential Difference: Male and Female Brains and the Truth about Autism