Open letter to NT society [long]

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I read your letter.

The beautiful true friendship, the way you dream it, is more and more scarce in our society, equally for NT & for AS.
I think NTs' friendship, as many live it, the Facebook-like friendship is an illusion, they know it more or less.

We all like to believe in our illusions...
... illusions of 5k Facebook friends /or
... illusion of the possibility of true fair unwavering and infinite friendship.

Friendship may happen, in the meantime, loneliness is a garden, which can be beautiful if you cultivate it, and you will be happy to watch your flowers grow, whatever others say.
(No beautiful flower has ever grown on Facebook...)

That wasn't a reply to you, I was replying to nurseangela who said I don't make effort to understand them.

Ah, okay, good to know, I was a little afraid I'd upset you despite an effort to be supportive!

How do I say this, it's "rude" to ask a person why they are acting the way they are. I do ask someone that question if I'm having an argument with them. The OP wants people to accept him for how he is and these are probably people who know nothing about AS or know that he even has Asperger's. I know you wish everyone knew about Asperger's, but to be honest unless there is someone in their life that they care about who has it - they don't care to know about it. I'm being blunt, but that is the truth. And before you say anything, Aspies are the same way. I've had several friendships with Aspies and not once have they wanted to know more about why I do the things that I do. High functioning Aspies don't want to have much to do with low functioning Aspies. I know that to be true too. People want to be around people who are like them - they don't want to have to learn anything. I've been a nurse for 14 yrs and honestly knew nothing about Asperger's until 2 yrs ago. I'm going to be blunt again - even though I've been around Aspies for awhile now some of the things my Aspie friends have said have been extremely rude and hurtful when they probably just thought they were being blunt. Take the OP going across that person like he did - rude. Thinking "excuse me" and saying it are two different things. If Aspies and NT's could just learn how to be courteous their lives would be much more pleasant.

You're an NT and you're asking me why I'm on here? Because I have Aspie friends and I enjoy being around them. And I'm not going to just hand out a favorable book review to make you happy - so deal with it. I've also worked with schizophrenia patients and they are not anything like people who have HFA.

Wouldn't it be funny if this thread closed because 2 NT's couldn't stop arguing on an Aspie website?

I have an opinion too. I read your opinion then I have mine. Just because I don't agree with everything you say then I'm attacking you?

I get that. What is it that they are asking you to change? The example you gave I have to say was rude. Anyone who just bumps into me and doesn't even acknowledge that I'm there pisses me off and I don't care if they are NT or Aspie.

I can't say it enough how important it is for the people that matter to you to know you have Asperger's. Even with me knowing that my Aspie friends are Aspie, it was hard accepting some of the things they said and did and I'm not even physically around them.

This is a theory I've come up with being around Aspies - whatever Aspies want NT's usually want the opposite. Aspie wants time alone - NT wants company. Aspie wants no talking - NT wants small talk. Aspie wants no eye contact - NT wants eye contact. Aspie wants no comforting - NT wants comforting. And the list goes on and on.

I don't like shaking hands either, but that's etiquette again. I just had to shake my new boss' hand the other day. You can actually tell a lot by how someone shakes your hand and she had a weak handshake. But that's a whole different subject.

Anyway, I can't act the way I'd like to at work either. That's work. There are Aspies here who have great jobs - they could probably give some great advice, but I don't ever see any helpful threads - just ones that are negative. How is that going to help Aspie and NT 's get along any better?

Interesting information. Why is it considered rude to ask people why they're behaving in a certian way? Does everyone just sort of assume that people who ask that sort of thing are challenging them, or being threatening? That seems a bit silly to me. Unless there was a clear tone in the person's voice that indicated they were trying to be malicious, I'd take the question at face value and assume it had no more motive than to obtain information. When your aspie friends hurt your feelings, did you inform them that they'd done so? I'd be bothered if I knew I'd hurt one of my friends and they kept it to themselves. Do you know why people are so averse to learning new things? To me, knowledge and learning are the most important thing there is.

I think asking someone why they are acting like they are is rude because (reading between the lines) it means they are acting inappropriately otherwise you wouldn't be asking them that question. If one of my Aspie friends asked me then I would know it was because they honestly didn't know why I was doing whatever it was that I was doing.

I didn't tell my Aspie friend when he hurt my feelings because I was thinking to myself that I know he's Aspie and he wouldn't hurt my feelings on purpose, but at the same time it still hurt a lot. I also knew he probably couldn't change it either. According to the Aspie books, NT's should learn to expect and accept this kind of treatment from Aspies. An NT will never get their emotional needs met from an Aspie - you're supposed to have NT friends for that. Knowing that still didn't make me hurt less. I finally did tell my Aspie friend and it was just like I thought - he didn't mean to hurt me on purpose. I think confronting him made him withdrawal more because our friendship went downhill from there and finally ended. Now I don't know how to act. If I was in a real life relationship with an Aspie, I would probably be too scared to say if they hurt my feelings because I'd be afraid that they'd take it the wrong way.

I forgot to answer the learning question. NT's like to learn, but it's not what drives us (me anyway). Aspies are logical so learning would be a prime focus. NT's are social, we want to work on relationships and friendships - that's why all the social media. I do like to learn things like listening or watching the news and I like medical stuff and psychology and that's probably why I'm interested in Asperger's. Most people don't have the time to really delve into a subject and Asperger's is like learning a new language. I think people these days only really have time to deal with what's around them and unless someone they know has Asperger's knowing about it is not top on their list. Also, I know with me that learning new things takes energy and I can only do it for so long before I get mentally exhausted. Kind of like how socializing is to an Aspie.

Tbh i dont agree with this post, it seems like such huge genelizing

And the "stop calling my autism a curse when you cause 80% of its problems" come on, lets not blame our problems on everyone else, and tbh the "stop thinking the world revolves around you" doesnt only apply to NT people, it seems like theres quite some users here who basically want the whole world to change for them but not want to change anything about themself

What does a weak handshake mean then? Does it mean one lacks confidence or does it mean that one is attempting to be considerate to another person by taking extra care as to not hurt them? I can intend one thing and it can be misconstrued as another. I don't know where you live but I live in the USA. I'm told that we have all of this freedom and we can and should be ourselves. Now, if we have to conform to all of these social requirements and all kinds of etiquette which is fine then I have to call into question the idea that we have all of freedom which we as a society value above all else and I have to call into question the idea that one can be oneself.



And that's fine! Let's not kid ourselves, let's call a spade a spade, cut all of the Orwellian double talk and double think, and let's acknowledge some truths. If we all have to conform to a set of standards and etiquette and we all have to go in certain directions then let's acknowledge the very truth that the USA is not a carefree and not a free culture in spite of what is hyped up. It is a conformist culture where one's success in various facets of one's life is dependent upon how much one is willing and able to compromise, capitulate and conform. Again, this is fine but let's not lie to each other and pretend our culture is something that it is really not. If we're expected to conform to a set of standards then just simply say so. Don't tell us to be true to ourselves and that we're all free when we're really not.

The handshake thing I was talking about is a "rule" for a job interview or for when one wants to make a positive first impression. You should have a firm grip but not squeezing too hard and not flimsy. My new boss squeezed my fingers. A lot of women do that and it can mean that they are unsure of themselves.

About the free country thing, when it comes to these rules of etiquette everyone has a freedom of whether they want to do them or not. Depending on what you choose to do will decide what outcome you get.

Why does it even matter whether one is unsure of oneself or not?



Technically, that's true. Guess what? The devil is in the details. One has the freedom to do x which will more then likely get one a positive outcome or y which will get a negative outcome. It's sort of along the lines of mafia protection racket. One either pays protection money every month or Big Bubba Tony will pound one's face in. Not much of a choice because one's choices are limited. One could call the police but the police may be on the racket to. One could leave but one may have to give a pound of flesh to do so.

When one opens the hood and peels back the layers one begins to see the whole Orwellian nature behind this. If one has a series of choices and a positive outcome is associated to only 1 or 2 out of n choices then is it really much of a choice? Is conform or there will be negative consequences much of a choice at all? No, it is not. It is a whole bunch of double think and the very least it is a bunch of mixed signals. Does one have choices? Technically yes. Does one have many choices with positive outcomes to choose from? Not really.

It is like I said. The USA is a conformist culture and not an open, freethinking and carefree culture. One's success in various areas depends upon how much one is willing to conform, capitulate and compromise. So, yes , one cab be oneself and be true to oneself but there are negative outcomes for this.

If we go along with your logic then we all would be just as free in North Korea just as we are here. The only difference lies in the outcomes and consequences of one's decisions.