The NT Has No Clothes

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Yes, human exceptionalism is a big part of it. The other living creatures on this planet are delegated to second class position at best. The NT cognitive lens is one with a social human filter that weakens the perception of the suffering of other creatures to levels that become bearable. In other words, NTs may well be aware of such non-human suffering, but it does not have the same powerful emotional impact as human suffering. From an NT perspective, becoming fully aware of non-human suffering is something that can be learned over time, by engaging in meditation or some form of spiritual practice. A similar effect in the social human filter weakens the perception of the significance of needs of those who behave differently due to a different culture or neurology. The result is a strong in-group bias that suppresses minorities and that over time creates the potential for violent inter-group competition with other large groups of strangers.


This relates to what I observe above. The normal Aspie state involves spending significant time "inside our heads", thinking. I would argue that this disposition has significant benefits to society that are not really acknowledged. Systemising is a conscious process that takes up significant amounts of my attention and time.

If you don't allocate time to pattern detection and understanding of the world, certain insights will remain out of reach.

Not to be rude, but I don't understand what you say most of the time. It's like you are on a totally different level of thinking than me. I don't understand this post either.

So I guess "mind free of defect" means NT's don't have anxiety issues, OCD, depression problems and I could go on and on because I sure give out a lot of pills to my NT patients for all of those issues, so you tell me. I'm tired of running into people who always think their problems are far worse than everyone else. I lived with someone like that my whole life. It gets old.

Aspies apply the same level of energy (perseverance) to address dysfunctional systems or environments that NTs apply to keep collective social delusions alive.

If the Aspie is forced to change to "normal" priorities, the resulting emotional stress leads to autistic burnout in the same way that NTs suffer from burnout when they sense the social delusion is crumbling.

Many years ago I read this book https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Futur ... l_Congress by Stanislaw Lem. I highly recommend it. Aspies often feel like the main character in this book. It is when people see through all the social delusions and when their social environment systematically ignores the existence of these delusions over years and decades that people are driven to desperate measures such as suicide.

I am unable to go on with my life. The dysfunction is overwhelming. And the shared illusion not believable.


I'm really attuned to animal suffering. And human suffering.


True.

This ^

There are at least 3 layers of meaning of NT:

1) Not on the autism spectrum. This is the original meaning.
2) Not having any kind of neurological or psychiatric disorder. This narrower meaning would exclude people with classic mental illnesses such as bipolar and schizophrenia, epilepsy, intellectual disabilities, specific learning disabilities, and probably also those who come down with the rampant anxiety or depression disorders. This would mean, at best, a modest majority of the population, and quite likely only a plurality.
3) Some even narrow the definition further to exclude intellectual giftedness (IQs over 130). This knocks out a further couple percent of the people who remain after the second definition.

It makes me wonder just how common people like me who meet all 3 definitions of NT - non-autistic, non-mentally-disordered, and within 2 standard deviations of the average IQ - really are.

Regarding the original theme: Yes, the mainstream cultural social world, run mainly by and for NTs, is full of artifice and sugar-coating. But the culture also needs and incorporates a few people who try to break out of that pattern, so that epic fails don't result too often from all this artifice and sugar-coating. This is where neurological variations like the autism spectrum and mild depression (the mildly depressed have less self-serving bias - blindness to bad news about themselves and the things they care about - than most people) and cultural niches like scientific research and Devil's advocacy in decision-making come in. If autists, the mildly depressed, Devil's advocates, and research were not part of the culture as well (albeit perhaps an under-represented and under-appreciated part of the culture), the culture might not have lasted this long or gotten this far.

Yes this pretty much sounds like the story of my life.

Yes! It would be a big step forward if the medical establishment and human cultures would not pathologise the variation, recognise that the variation has significant adaptive value, and recognise that those who are beyond a certain "distance" from the typical average may need significant supports in order to play their role and to contribute their gifts to society and the planet.

True but I didn't think the OP was about saying that NTs have it so much better or anything of that nature. If anything I get the impression that they are often blind to their OWN struggles, which is part of that whole thing of not seeing reality, or at least not being willing to talk about it.

So why is what I believe to be insignificant defects (eye contact, verbalization, dexterity) seen as so abhorrent as to warrant behaviour modification and shunning (and at at it's extreme, eugenic removal?)

Ignorance, blindness to cultural bias, impaired ability to distinguish between culture and innate human tendencies, and underdeveloped theory of other minds.

This really encapsulates why I feel so burned out and exhausted. Just in my job alone...it's absolutely ridiculous how badly things are falling apart yet no one wants to hear the truth so they can do anything about it. I learned years ago the best way to keep a job is to just smile and go along with all the dysfunction, and I see other people do it and basically just grin and shrug and manage not to care about what is going on. Everything else in life seems to be this way too, people just go along with a lot of BS whenever they can get something they want out of it. I've learned how to do it, but the satisfaction that comes from it is so hollow, I can only do it for the sake of survival (ie having a job) but can't force myself to do it just to socialize with people.

Good post. It's usually pointless to say one life is harder than another. We all have different difficulties, and those who go through extreme hardship often are happier due to having developed better coping skills. Perspective is key.

Neither of these posts is relevant to this thread. Just sayin'.

They're not totally off topic. If NTs are going to be described as some ambiguous "they," then you're opening the discussion to posts on the opposite point of view.

And your original point about socializing isn't totally invalid, but you're stating this on a message board. To socialize. People can be social in different ways, it doesn't have to be all NT versus ND. If you want to see how loved "NT" views are here, just look at how many people here love Criminal Minds, a very superficial show that fits many of the "NT" criticisms here. I think our posts were just saying the division can be a little silly. Not unfounded, just taken to a pointless extreme.

Understood, that is fine, not a problem, for even other Autists or Aspies misunderstand a lot, too.

Yes, I am most-certainly under a different level-of-thinking, not just outside-the-box, but frequently outside-the-entire-universe kind, plus I have many unique experiences that simply nobody else in the world shares or would be able to relate to either without metaphors (regardless whether they are NTs or ASD). Experiences that I do not really wish to discuss in too much identifying detail, and if you cannot understand some of my replies, that is because I was being vague intentionally. I simply do not wish to be very explicitly detailed for memories that have the potential to induce a re-living of psychosis-inducing traumas.

This is the best that I can do for now to help simplify why you may not understand all of my responses.