The Nation of Aspergia

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Rampage killers are interesting.

The whole thing sounds communist to me. Killing for self defense should be legal. Why should the laws threaten the law abiding citizen's life? Also use the Swiss method of crime prevention where everybody and their mother owns and often carries a machine gun. For those that still aren't detered from comitting violent crimes, forms of capital punishment could range from hanging and firing squads to burning at the stake and crucifixion. Maybe even the Traitor's Death that the British used to use. As for gun laws, I'd propose making any weapon that fires a non rocket propeled projectile smaler than 40mm legal to any citizen over 18. All manner of machine guns and shotguns the size of a pistol would be legal as well. Anything you can find a way to conceal would also be legal. For anything over 40mm, unguided rockets or guided rockets would each require licenses, but woud be fairly easy to obtain. The only gun registry that would be legal for the government to keep is for stolen weapons. Despite being a nation of social misfits, we would have an extremely polite society.

When i'm older I want a gun!

I have nothing implicitly against guns, but they should all be a luminous pink and glow when concealed under clothes to show they are there.

We can make that, yes? Any inventors?

While we are on the subject of crime and punishment, I would like to add that the punishment a society gives tells a lot about the society and will affect it's attitudes. It's been a long held liberal belief that a punishment involving violence creates more violent people who are then less inhibited to develop ideas about when violence is right. The conservative belief that it's an effective deterrent. Both opposing views tell a lot about the people who hold them; both sides believe everybody is thinking like them. A liberal will feel more angry and prone to aggression in a society with a death penalty as they will feel the whole society is sick and vice-versa for conservatives who think that some people genuinely deserve severe punishment.

A society is heavily influenced by how it treats it's most vulnerable and like it or not, a prisoner of the state is extremely vulnerable, regardless of what they have done. When people who are against eugenics speak out against it, they don't exclude criminals most notably.

I'm bothered about the rights of criminals because they are people and people not caring about other people is usually what went wrong in the first place(most notably when the criminal started doing it).

[quote=Toby Keith]Well a man come on the 6 o’clock news
Said somebody’s been shot, somebody’s been abused
Somebody blew up a building
Somebody stole a car
Somebody got away
Somebody didn’t get too far yeah
They didn’t get too far

Grandpappy told my pappy, back in my day, son
A man had to answer for the wicked that he done
Take all the rope in Texas
Find a tall oak tree, round up all of them bad boys
Hang them high in the street for all the people to see that

Justice is the one thing you should always find
You got to saddle up your boys
You got to draw a hard line
When the gun smoke settles we’ll sing a victory tune
We’ll all meet back at the local saloon
We’ll raise up our glasses against evil forces
Singing whiskey for my men, beer for my horses

We got too many gangsters doing dirty deeds
We’ve got too much corruption, too much crime in the streets
It’s time the long arm of the law put a few more in the ground
Send ’em all to their maker and he’ll settle ’em down
You can bet he’ll set ’em down ’cause

Justice is the one thing you should always find
You got to saddle up your boys
You got to draw a hard line
When the gun smoke settles we’ll sing a victory tune
We’ll all meet back at the local saloon
We’ll raise up our glasses against evil forces
Singing whiskey for my men, beer for my horses

Justice is the one thing you should always find
You got to saddle up your boys
You got to draw a hard line
When the gun smoke settles we’ll sing a victory tune
We’ll all meet back at the local saloon
We’ll raise up our glasses against evil forces
Singing whiskey for my men, beer for my horses[/quote]
Someone with similar views to me. hmm...

My point didn't centre on the criminal Sean, but the society which decides punishment. There are three often cited arguements against capital punishment, none of them support the rights of a criminal yet those who call for an end to state-sanctioned killing are still often attacked as such.

1. A society supporting capital punishment has an increased chance of those on it's margins rationalising violence and commiting it.

2. A society supporting capital punishment will often get it wrong regardless of imaginary safeguards.

3. A person has no inherent value when no inalienable right to life is supplied, their only value comes in what others enfix on them. This allows for every area where personhood is ill-defined to become battlegrounds for the right to live, even where people previously thought those rights for those people were inalienable. This is notable in the abortion issue, where the personhood of the unborn is allowed to be questioned and no right to life is given. For many supporters of capital punishment, this is an unwelcome side-effect of allowing the idea that anyone can have their personhood questioned to exist.

The arguements avoid the tricky issue of wether or not a person can be rehabilitated, this is never actually proven or not in a court of law: the arguements for that are based on premises founded in religious ideas and science takes a back seat.

The use of capital punishment as a deterrent is quite contradictory. If it were true, there would not be so much of it in countries that have it because it would actually be acting as a deterrent. An often made arguement by it's supporters is that most prisoners die on death row before ever being executed, making the deterrent arguement ineffective.

I know that if Britain still killed prisoners I would be a lot more anxious and aggressive just by the knock-on effects on society as a whole. In a society that kills people I would feel a lot more comfortable with rationalising anything violent I do and capital punishment would be no deterrent as most who commit crime believe they are not going to be caught. And usually they are never caught, that's another myth spun by police camera shows.

I wonder when someone will be able to argue in court that they have diminished responsibility because the police in their area are usually so useless that they didn't think they'd be caught, therefore robbing them of an effective deterrent from their crime.

In the UK, this HAS actually happened.

Favoring the death penalty and opposing abortion can be recnciled by giving babies the inalienable right to life, and thinkng of the death penalty as a form of retroactive abortion where you have given them the chance to make something of themselves that abortin acivists try to claim the babies in question will never have any hope of doing, and using due process to filter the ones that are truely as worthless as the abortion advocates claim they are from the ones that they were wrong about. In the end, you end up saving more lives than you take.

/me is very tired of the idea of "punishment" as opposed to "correction" (if correcting is at all possible, some cases it's not). In cases, especially 1st degree murder cases where the Death Penalty is enforced, this sounds uncannily like REVENGE. Because one could achieve the same ends with Life in Prison without Parol. True, it would cost more money to keep them confined. But this is just a lazy excuse to get rid of these people because the tax payer doesn't want to pay. For those who have no hope of rehabilitation, this is the more civilized thing to do, if that is indeed what the modern world would wish to continue calling itself.

Eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. Let them kill 'em if they like, but I wish they wouldn't go spouting they're two-faced morals while doing so.

I'm not as opposed to causing these peoples' deaths as I am to the contradiction in doing it and shouting that justic has been served.

Generally, countries that make mistakes in regards to capital punishment only do so due to predjudice. If you can erase that, you can do it correctly.

Sean,

Your reasoning contradicts. 'Inalienable' means that something is constant and unchangeable. If you give babies the *inalienable* right to life, you can not take it away when they are no longer babies, they retain it as adults. If you then take it away when they commit a certain crime, it is not actually inalienable; it's conditional.

When the right to life becomes conditional then any area where the right can be argued over, it will be argued over. And 'due pocess' currently means you can be aborted for having a cleft palate. You can't reconcile it by saying that if you oppose abortion you can support the death penalty because you're saving more lives than you are taking: morality by numbers is where Marxism got it wrong.

Malcolm,