The empathy lie

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^^^^^YUP^^^^^^

Of course that exists outside drugs.

And I call it a form of resonance. Of feeling being seen and that seeing someone else equally.
This is what some people are thirsty over socialization and the apparent lack of constant catering over this type of feeling is somehow what made other people feel chronic loneliness.

If every other interaction feels that way for me, I'd very much likely be socializing more -- because it felt meaningful.
Except despite ever feeling it, I'm not so dependent on it that it affects my psyche and identity. Tho the rarity made it memorable.

But as an autistic who do not sync and therefore resonate with NTs, it can take hundreds and thousands of interaction from one person to ever feel that once.
I had only ever experienced this with my own mother once and already been an adult at that point, under a very heavy and potentially taboo topic.
And very scant few from very few people online. Most of which are coincidental.

For most social creatures, that's agonizingly painful existence to be.
Usually, just cope and hope for the best, while being depressed or working over accepting the fact that they will feel loneliness.

Me, on the other hand, who's probably not a social creature deep down... Just move on with my own day.
And just registers something like this no different than a novelty to be enjoyed than something to be thirsty over. But yeah -- I wouldn't stake my life on it either.


It makes me question of what asociality meant for most autistics, seeing that the label is portrayed as such.
That if most of autistic's asociality is behavioral or some form of reactive coping...

And mine happened to be innate and not some conditional crapity. More than just neurology. Or, if it is, just that autism is a pleasant egosyntonic coincidence for me.

Empathy of bonding? Again hard to distinguish, but bonding depends more on circumstance, and is not universally applicable.

My only experience of bonding was after a three day bout in an isolation ward with another guy who was also coughing his guts up, due to suspected COV19, but which turned out to be a bacterial infection. Caught while in the hospital, natch.

The guy also had a bad back and couldn’t lift himself, so I automatically changed his pee bottle and topped up his water, when ever I saw the need when passing his bed (never a nurse when you need one).

He resisted to start with, saying there was no need, but he eventually gave it up as a bad job, and went as far as to save his butter for me (the food’s pretty, good, but never quite enough) which was very touching (I had to swallow a laugh the first time he did it).

I might have felt bad when I checked out, except he was obviously delighted for me. I wanted to hug him (another first)!

Three Cheers for the above ...quote . ( Butter can go along ways in some situations ) Happy Holidays

I love that story

The lengths people will go to for a bit of butter

You’d have to be there! Morning “toasts,” on my first visit, where dished out according to how much you wanted (so I’d get through 20 of them) but then they started limiting the butter, and the toasts got pretty hard to swallow with too little, so I had to limit my toasts to suit. It was like they were a currency!

you couldn't make it up

Any more thoughts on whether it was empathy or bonding you experienced? What I felt for the guy in hospital had nothing to do with body language, as he hardly ever moved, and neither of us was given to chatting, which seem to me a requirement for empathy. Bonding is one on one, whereas empathy applies to everyone, n’est pas?

Wait! What about the empath on Star Trek who sensed Q’s imminent arrival, without having had any chance of assessing his (its?) body language? Presumably, the delivery medium (the Aether?) also supported faster than light communication?

Just kidding, but that was one of my favourite episodes, with superb acting all around, especially the Q character!

There are far too many feelings involved at any single moment for anyone to truly know how another person is feeling but you might get a sense of how it might feel for yourself if you was in a similar situation

It's the self proclaimed empaths that I have more of an issue with

^"Self proclaimed empaths"? Don't let that kind of people give actual empaths a bad name. People that have a high level of empathy usually don't go on about it.

I think that's what BB meant. People who go on about having a high level of empathy, as in unusually high levels of emotional/compassionate empathy, yet are renowned for upsetting people frequently and criticising by not understanding their feelings and perspectives.

Not talking about anyone who's here, just speaking in general. I just own up that sometimes I do have selfish attitudes, I don't always think before I act, but I still know that I don't lack empathy as a personality trait. Yes I believe I do feel a lot of empathy but it's nothing to brag about (not saying anyone here is doing that).

I think it sounds more truthful to say that one feels a lot of empathy, rather than point-blank "I have loads and loads of empathy" at any opportunity given. Not saying it necessarily means they don't have empathy but it just gets annoying and is not going to exactly make me run to them whenever I have a problem.

It's one of the reasons why I don't often talk about things that have happened to me
It's not that I don't want people to know, I don't want people doing all that empathy stuff because they will never ever know how it felt. I don't even know myself how certain things felt because I was too young or too shut down

I just find it insulting sometimes

It's actually invalidating, rather than validating

I've had it where I've decided to open up to a person and the next thing is, I'm the one doing all the listening because they've made it all about themselves. Comparing and competing is not empathy. It's just plain flipping rude

It's much kinder to offer a box of tissues or make a cup of tea or a bacon roll or something like that

I feel like I am finally starting to understand this thread, although to be honest I am still confused.

My thoughts on this are confused and anecdotal.

There are people who feel something genuine and safe and simple in response to someone else's feelings. I know because I have met them. Also there are people who gravitate towards vulnerability while telling themselves it is because they are empathic or compassionate. Again I know because I have met them.

I understand the difference; I just don't understand how we are ever supposed to differentiate. If we feel something like empathy, how do we know which type it is.

You can't ever know what is in someone else's mind. I think it is intrinsically offensive and feel it is intrinsically predatory to think that you do. But sometimes you react. Whether you're reacting to your stuff or theirs can be very hard to know. Your own history or (thinking again of my parent) your own needs.

I honestly think there are a lot of highly predatory people out there who would never, ever consider themselves anything other than humane, empathic, nurturing.

When I think about it, all my best mates over the years have been people I've had comparatively little emotional overlap with. I am not comfortable with empathy.

But at the same time... trying to get a true picture of another human being, what they are like, what it is like to be them. Isn't that also a very human instinct. And the people I have met who have had that simple, generous, honest response. I have admired it so much.

How do you make space for one but not the other. Or should you. This is something very important to me that I've thought about a lot over the years but made no inroads into.

Last edited by kuen on 13 Dec 2025, 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

To like someone or to relate to them in a meaningful and consistent way... I think it means you have some sort of theory of mind for them or some sense of who they are that is independent of how they experience themselves.

So there is that and then there is the line you must try very, very hard not to cross.

Empathy seems to skirt pretty close to the line, for me. But at the same time I think our instincts for other human beings should not be excessively regulated. So I go round on round on this.

I think empathy is a feeling. It's not something you either have or you don't have. It's entwined in our personalities, as humans, and alters on a case-by-case basis. I can feel other people's emotions, which is why I often find it hard to tell the truth in some situations, although at the same time I am loyal and I'm not a pathological liar or anything like that. I generally say the truth, but I try to avoid criticising or disrespecting others if I can, and I usually learn from past mistakes I have made. Sometimes ignorance can cause one to be clumsy without intentionally upsetting people, like say if you're not familiar with a certain religion and someone with that religion says they do something that sounds strange or even funny to you and you say so, only to realise you may have offended that person. It doesn't mean you lack empathy as a person. It's the sort of mistake anybody can make.

I know I am a soft-hearted person, I feel guilty and concerned about other people - which is why I get agitated when somebody is off with me or is in a bad mood and their body language and all that. And yes, I admit I do sometimes bring my experiences or feelings into it when someone is confiding in me about a problem of theirs, although I still do listen, let them speak, and empathise. But talking about my experiences is my way of saying "I know exactly how you're feeling, you are not alone, because I've been in that situation too" and I might find myself explaining the situation. It may be a quirk of mine that I need to work on. But being so I'm a very open and expressive person, thinking out loud is a habit of mine, and I'm not very good with offering advice. So I feel there's not much I can say beyond offering kind words and understanding, but still want the conversation to carry on and share our feelings, so that's why I do it.
Also I love people to know me. Like say if people are talking about potty-training their toddlers, I might impulsively put in the age I was potty-trained at, for example. It's just a way of being heard, having people know that I have a past and that I'm not just some mysterious person in the background who doesn't say anything beyond small talk. Being hyper-social can be an ADHD trait, although it can mistake you for being nosy - even though I don't even ask many questions to people at all.