Are you or have you been obsessed with intelligence?

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Well, that's only half true though since people who do graduate from university with high scores land better jobs more easily. Face it; you won't become a doctor, surgeon, lawyer, or some other high paying professional job with only a 2.0 GPA. And university doesn't accept students with only a 2.0 GPA. But I don't really see the big deal anyways; high school is too easy, whether you're smart or just memorize all the answers. On the other hand, being at least a bit sociable or agreeable with people might help you take a job as compared to struggling to get a job you can't get because you don't have a degree for it, and people don't treat you seriously. So to succeed, you actually need a bit of both.



It has been suggested that schools should try to teach subjects that are more applicable to real life, particularly when its related to business. Otherwise, you'll end up with people who know how to make graphs and do math, but don't know how to pay their taxes, buy a house or do the accounting for their own money. And that's a good reason why most people, as it goes, are in debt.

I have a friend who graduated with a 2 point something GPA from college and now he makes more than I make. He is a nice guy. He is handsome. He is normal. If that guy had my GPA and had gone to the school I went to, he'd probably be making twice the amount of money I earn right now.



People who are in debt don't necessarily get in debt because they don't understand basic accounting. Often, they are in debt because they want to live a lifestyle they can't afford. They have two cars, pay a mortgage on a house, eat out every single day, go to movies every weekend, like to drink expensive wine, etc. And they earn a middle-class salary...

It's not amazingly difficult, but it's pretty hard, at least from what on in my school. A pretty bright friend of mine was waitlisted. It's not amazingly selective because it's huge, obviously, and it also has a college of general studies for people with lower GPAs. I don't know how well we get along with MIT kids, but the guys are pretty desperate for BU freshmen girls lol because they're always approaching us outside the dorms.

and that difference is money. At school YOU pay them, in a job, THEY pay you. And that change in dynamics is the only difference, it is all 'real' life.


Merle

_________________________
life is like a poop sandwich
the more bread you have,
the less poop you gotta eat.

I'll respond to his post tomorrow . It is too long for me to respond right now.

And when that day comes, it will be sweet indeed. Tiny graduate student stipends just don't cut the mustard.

I'm a girl, lol And I hope you don't think I'm attacking you personally - I really like to debate, but I try to see both sides of things.

And how many people can afford to graduate from college with a crappy GPA and get a job? Just because you have one friend who graduated with a 2 GPA doesn't mean everyone else has an easier time getting a job with a GPA like that. If there were two people who were equals in terms of social skills, but one had a better GPA than the other, you can most likely be assured that they would take the person who has the better GPA.



If that's the case, then that sort of thing might be taught to students in school. So they don't end up paying for stuff they can't afford. Although buying stuff you can't afford might also be the result of poor accounting; if you don't know how much money you can spend freely, you might assume that you had enough money to buy the things you want, but then realize later that you don't. With accounting, you should usually be able to tell how much money you should and shouldn't spend.

Not obsessed but interested in a real IQ test since I have scored very high with online tests and moderate to low. Shrugs. Sometimes I do the stupidest things though.


I know a guy who was #1 in High School and super at wrestling, went to school for one qtr and out now running a forklift, could not cope and now smokes pot like mad. Don't get me wrong, smoke it if you want, if just I think was a downfall for him as well as no social skills.

Same thing for a relative who was like #1 in Community College and she had no, ZERO common sense, scewed up her 1st marriage and then a drunk 14 years her senior.

I agree that practical skills should be taught - and I feel I have learned about some essential things so far in college. I feel like BU's Communication program is really aimed at teaching students to be aware of real life. We have a different speaker every day to teach us about all the available areas of study, and we have to read the Wall Street Journal daily to learn all about the mess that is subprime mortgages, etc. As for debt - some people don't understand, but from a lot of situations I've witnessed, it's just greed. Or denial. They want the nice house, fancy cars, nice vacations, big TV (which is understandable), and they decided to save for their kids' college later, or refinance the house, or get a few more credit cards. It's not that people legitimately don't know how to manage finances, they just aren't responsible. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that if you don't have money for a new purse, you don't buy one. So many of my friends go into debt to their parents etc., because they just don't understand not to let themselves get broke.

I'll respond to that by quoting your own post:


Yeah, how about you go and reread the last sentence? You quite obviously DO have a superiority complex. You consider most of the people your age to be "dumb," and just because you do well in school you think that you are very intelligent.

How about you don't make claims like "I have almost no tolerance for people who aren't intelligent" when you claim intelligence is measured merely by your test results and SAT score.

If anything, doing good in school and getting perfect grades (In 90% of the cases) is a result of a lack of doing anything outside of school work. As they say "You learn more in school outside the classroom" and for some people it would be good that they take that literally. Getting good grades is important, school is also important, but if you don't have the social skills to compensate for such an activity then you are doing nothing but wasting your time. Employers are not going to want to hire you and pay you a lot just because you have a high GPA. I wish that were the case and things could be easy like that; but sadly it is not true.


Not everyone pursues doing good in school and not pursuing academic work doesn't really make someone "dumb." A lot of people are good at getting along with other people, so instead of reading a book they will go to a party to strengthen their friends and connections. While this might not seem like such a huge thing that matters; it does. Having friends and being social is more important than getting good grades in over 90% of most cases(Excluding Medical School, and Etc Etc). I know that I am generalizing, but it is honestly the truth.


I was on two of the sport teams that the top kid in my class was on(We didn't have valedictorian). We played both Water polo and Swimming. He was basically the best on both of those teams also. While he was very good at school and at sports, this didn't make him any better socially. He kind of always kept to himself and he was rather cocky. Which would be why he didn't have a lot of friends.



Being involved in music or in sports does not necessarily not make you a loner. Many kids in those programs are loners too, just for one reason or another(Probably like there parents forcing them) they end up having to do an extracurricular activity which they don't even enjoy, yet alone get along with their peers.


College is a LOT different then high school. Just like real life is a LOT different than College. You will soon see there is more to life than getting good grades or going to MIT. And you don't have to agree with me on this; a grand majority of people learn this the hard way. I can name a couple of kids who I knew in high school who thought they were intelligent/better than everyone else and got 4.0 GPA's and 3.8-3.9 GPA's in college. Know what happened after that?

One is working at a library for like a $30,000/year wage because he couldn't pass an interview.

Another one isn't working at all. He got a 3.9 in AeroSpace Engineering at the University I go to(U of Michigan) who has one of the best programs in the world but he failed to develop the skills necessary to work with peers. He's going back to college and getting a different degree. I don't even want to know how many hours he spent studying a week: probably around 60-70.

Another one dropped out of College after 2 years because he couldn't take the pressure and the other kids in class harassed him.

Well okay, you get the picture. The real sad part is that no one actually feels bad about any of them.

And do you want to know why? Because in high school(Like you) they were very arrogant and thought that they were superior/smarter than everyone else.

It goes without saying how much that actually helped them in the long run



This I agree on. Even though most doctor's are arrogant as heck. And most of them just do it for the money; not to help people.

I've seen more doctors that I ever want to see(Due to intestinal problems). Many of which told me to "Drink more water" when apparently my muscles stopped working so that isn't exactly going to help.



Thats generalizing too, but I can't say that I don't agree with it. Many of these type of people end up screwed/hosed in the long run; but some do succeed also.

I don't necessarily like looking of America as shallow one-dimensional society but it doesn't blind me from the fact that this is exactly how it is. I don't like the way things run either, but I have very little control over them, so I am forced to comply with this country's standards. I don't really view it at that depressing, thats just the way America is and since I live here; I am going to have to deal with it.


I never said that you have to isolate yourself to be smart. To more than just a little extent, you do have to isolate yourself to get good grades. But I don't correlate that with being smart.


They don't if you don't have the social understanding to back it up. Grade are a latter on a piece of paper while the real world is about communicating and doesn't usually include paper and pencils(Which is good).


I agree, many people with good grades do get in a very high status(Which is one of the most important things in a society like America). However, how many of these people have also had good social skills(Excluding Mr. Bill Gates)?


Explain to me how test scores reflect intelligence? Test scores reflect ones ability to do well on a standardized exam. Is this what you consider as intelligence?


Something like computer programming is very good if you are not good socially.



Thats good, but you need to realize just how useless your grades really are unless you go into a field that only depends on grades and does not rely on social skills what-so-ever. Or you could always develop good social skills, but that isn't in any way easier.



I think that is good.



Honestly, I grew up 20 minutes from the town of Detroit, Michigan and I think that AA is a very good idea. However, it doesn't actually benefit the people who actually need it. The people most benefited for AA are the middle class minorities. I think AA should be done by income level so that the people who actually need it get chosen regardless of whether or not they are white or black.



I don't like using him as an example because I honestly don't really like that he has a supermodel as a wife and has portrayed the image of the world's biggest computer geek.


But you do think you are more intelligent than your peers just because you do well in school......Hmmmmmmmm?



Ugh, you seemed to be obsessed with doing well in test scores. How about we place out jobs corresponding to how well people do on the SAT?



And there are equally as many who pretty much got "screwed" because they didn't realize that there is more to life than a 2 digit number people call GPA.



I don't necessarily admire people who think they are better than everyone else because they can sit down and read books/notes for 7-8 per day. In fact, it kind of makes me think "What is wrong with them?"



Ughhhhh * 1,000,000. I find it strange that you have this obsession with the SAT and intelligence. Anyway, it is a standardized test, so I will treat it like a standardized test. Basically(Since you seem to think test grades measure intelligence) the only thing that I can say is that the stuff on the SAt's/ACT's are pretty much meaningless doo dung. The actual things that they test you on are completely 100% useless to know in general so placing ones intelligence on how many questions they can get right on a test that measures uselessness is simply absurd.



Apparently, that didn't mean I would go any easier on you.

Okay, I'm done with my rant.

I don't know what high school/college you went to, but most if not all of the courses I took in college felt like a continuation of the AP classes I took in high school. Now, if by "college" you mean "graduate school," then I have to agree with you.



Eh, how do you know what they thought? Maybe they seemed to think they were more intelligent/better than everyone because they were aspies...



You make it sound like the reason "he failed to develop the skills necessary to work with peers" is because he spent too much time studying. (Faulty NT thinking at its best.)

On a similar note, even if I had made the effort to not learn a thing in college, I still would have failed to develop the skills necessary to make people like me. I can get along with people; it's usually them who don't get along with me. Just picture a guy like me with no social skills and a 2.0 GPA: Right now, I'd be pushing shopping carts for a living.



There have been statistical studies which show that there is a strong positive correlation between SAT scores and intelligence. There will always be exceptions, but when you look at the big picture, patterns emerge.

Yes, and the reason I came to this thread was to point out that I know it is a negative quality to not be able to tolerate people who aren't intelligent. I recognize I'm not superior, that's why I said it's a problem. It's not because I think I'm better, it's just that I get bored and annoyed when people don't know about anything relevant and can't discuss something above sex and drinking. I refer to it as a 'problem', but I don't think that I am more worthy of anything. And this has little to do with how I do in school - there were students who had significantly higher grades that I did, by virtue of very hard work, who could still only talk about boys and partying. Likewise, there were people who did worse in school than I did, but were my closest friends, and very intelligent people. When I say intelligence, I'm not talking about grades, I'm talking about the ability to hold an intelligent conversation and be a thoughtful and interesting person.


I never claimed intelligence was tested entirely by test results - that is clearly not true. Getting perfect grades mean isolation - but getting mostly A's is very possible without becoming an outcast. To get into good colleges right now you have to show you've done other activities - they want people who are able to socialize and do other things. The majority of people who did well at my school were very dedicated to other activities, had large groups of friends, and partied a lot.


I'm not saying people have to go to college to learn about the world. But I do believe it is necessary for people to at least know about how the world works, and at least watch the history channel. Partying with your friends is fun and totally ok, and I believe everyone should have friends, but I also believe people need to know about their world, about their government, etc. You don't have to have a PhD to be informed. Once again, I'm not advocating that the world should hide in their rooms studying - I want people to be social and have friends. I never argued against it. But I think people should work hard at expanding their minds, too.


Yes, I'm aware being part of an activity doesn't make you social. But plenty of kids are socially involved in activities. Are you just trying to argue that people can't possibly be social AND do well at school? That there's always some sort of catch, and no matter what they're involved in and what they achieve there's always something missing? I don't understand why it bothers you so much that I think working hard at school is a good thing. It's by no means a guarantee, but it's definitely helpful, and the majority of people who do well aren't outcasts, or nothing would ever get done. The majority of people running things, whether it be in politics or business etc, are bright and have social skills. Plently of these people exist. They may not all have done well in school, but most of them did, and almost all possess intelligence in at least one area.


Being involved in music or in sports does not necessarily not make you a loner. Many kids in those programs are loners too, just for one reason or another(Probably like there parents forcing them) they end up having to do an extracurricular activity which they don't even enjoy, yet alone get along with their peers. [/quote]
Yes, but the kids I'm talking about were not loners. It IS possible for some kids to actually have friends and do well in school! Doing well in school doesn't ruin you for life, and it's not a negative thing. I don't understand why you're so against my suggestion that people can do both. I'm not saying everyone has to be an antisocial studier - I'm all for social interaction and fun! But I still believe education, in whatever form, is very important.

I disagree American is all about this one dimension. It's an existing dimension, certainly, but American also values hard work, at whatever one chooses to work at . It's not like smart people get nowhere in America, and athletes get everywhere. There are successful athletes, certainly, but their are a lot fewer than their are successful lawyers, doctors, businessmen, any type of job, really. Education gets you far in America, I disagree that our standards only value athletics etc. Not that there's anything wrong with being successful in sports.


Uh...tons of people. I don't know everyone's grades, but I'm willing to bet most highly successful people had good grades and have good people skills. It's how they advanced. I can't name you every corporate leader, but I know there are many. I don't know exact grades, but the Clintons and Barack Obama are successful, bright, and personable. Conan O'Brien is another. And I just remembered Will Smith. I'm sure I could think of others eventually.


I can't prove test scores measure intelligence, but in my personal experience they very accurately reflected that true intelligence of people I knew well. But beyond just the initial score, reading comprehension is often an example of the ability to really think and analyze. The essay portion tests your ability to form coherent arguments. Are they always accurate? Of course not. But there has to be some reason they're used, and some reason why very bright people usually do quite well.



I actually have fairly good social skills. I can pass for NT very easily, but sometimes I definitely get confused by seemingly easy things if theyre not directly explained, or I have trouble approaching people, or bantering etc. My biggest fear is that I get confused about really easy tasks sometimes, unless I've done the exact thing before. But moving on, I think my intelligence could make up for my social skills, provided I have at least some. I think a bright person with ok social skills can do just as well as a less bright person with great social skills. It's all debatable. But I wouldn't call my grades useless. Grades do matter. Social skills matter. Sometimes people can get by with only one, sometimes people need both. There are jobs out there for almost everyone, unless you're totally incapable of interaction, and even then, there are things like computer programming, as you said.




No, not necessarily. I think I'm more capable of getting good grades due to my intelligence, and I'm proud of the work I did, but I didn't kill myself. People of lesser intelligence did better than me at school, and people of greater intelligence did worse than me. Most of it was work ethic - they were lazy, and some less intelligent kids were hard workers - I admire them. Some kids were so bright they did no work at all and still got A's. I wasn't that lucky. Your school record doesn't show your true intelligence, but it tends to give a pretty good idea overall.


I'm not obsessed - you went after me on it, I responded. We're having a discussion. Nowhere did I state that SATs should be the final decision for everything in life. Many jobs have nothing to do with intelligence, or with the skills tested on the SAT. It doesn't measure hard work, which can be more useful professionally than intelligence. I never suggested anything about giving jobs away based on SAT scores. You're taking the discussion to a ridiculous level. I never suggested anything like that.




It doesn't make them better, but it doesn't mean there's anything wrong with them. I wonder what's wrong with people who'd rather party all day and have absolutely no understanding of the world they live in and therefore no ability to prepare for the future. It's a personal choice - they like learning, and they want to succeed, and many of them will.



Umm...this thread is about obsession with intelligence! It's the whole point....the fixation. maybe you find it strange - I call it having autistic tendencies. I dont have time to look at your other posts because I have midterms to study for (ironic, huh?), so I dont know your background. Do you have AS? Do you understand what it's like to struggle with social issues and therefore value knowledge, because it's something that you're good at? There's nothing wrong with having different strengths and weaknesses, and I'm trying to overcome things that bother me by discussing these issues here. You seem to only care about having social skills - the whole point of this site is that the majority of us struggle with social issues. I know they're important, but I have to pursue other things too. And being smart, or working hard, does not mean that I'm some sort of freak who will never succeed in life. And now I'm stepping off my soapbox.

Last edited by quirky on 23 Oct 2007, 10:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

That's really not true in my experience. True, the people at the very, very top of the class, like the valedictorian, who had GPAs above 4.0 tended to spend a lot of time studying. But plenty of people did extremely well (like 3.9, 3.8 ) who had lives during college, and were involved in sports and other extracurriculars. My friend was the salutatorian by the way, and she did spend a lot of time working, much more than the rest of us, but she still managed to have a campus job, take dance classes, and perform (sing and play guitar) at campus events. Not to mention hang out with her friends and date. She is not one isolated case either, I knew a bunch of people who had top grades, and they all managed to find time to socialize and have fun. In fact, the one guy I knew who didn't have a social life was the exception. He was also the valedictorian.

I am an aspie, and I hate it when people imply that the only reason I did well in school is because I worked my butt off. That's simply false. Of course I studied, but I did not work my butt off (unless you call slacking off four days a week and pulling all nighters the night before the exams "working your butt off"). I did well by virtue of my intellect. I am not a genius, but I am smart enough to have breezed through college. Or maybe it means that the school I went to is a crappy school. That's a posssiblity and I don't rule it out. Nowadays, with grade inflation being so common in more and more colleges and universities, only a person with serious learning difficulties or a terribly bad attitude would score less than a B in a class. End up with 50% B+s and 50% A-s and you have a 3.5 cummulative GPA, which some people consider a "good' GPA.

"Yeah but you didn't spend any time partying so that means you worked your butt off!" Correct, I did not spend any time partying, but that's something I attribute to Asperger's Syndrome and not to my work ethic. I did spend a lot of time watching TV and playing video games and procrastinating and contemplating the mysteries of the universe.

Some of the comments in this thread are starting to piss me off. For all I know, this Brian guy doesn't have AS.

Last edited by Mw99 on 22 Oct 2007, 10:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.

I agree. I don't party, not because I have to study, but because I don't like being around drunk people, and I don't drink. For me, it's more fun to read, watch tv, go online, and go shopping and to movies and out to dinner with friends. I'm not the most social person due to my AS, and maybe it's also just my personality. Maybe that means I'm a loser who doesn't know how to have a good time, but what it comes down to is I could go to a frat party every night of the week and I'd be miserable. That's not who I am. I went to an Elie Wiesel (look him up) lecture tonight, which is a lot more enjoyable for me than a party. It's a matter of preference, and I feel that listening to him speak can teach me a lot more about the world than most college 'social' events.