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Who_Am_I
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05 Nov 2007, 8:36 am

jazzguy wrote:
2ukenkerl wrote:
Celexa is for depression, NOT an AS symptom!
Kepra is for epilepsy, NOT an AS symptom!
Trazadone is for depression/sleep, NOT an AS symptom!

Though some may claim they are symptoms, they are really comorbids or outgrowths. and they are certainly NOT the main symptoms of AS. If any doctor saw just THEM, AS wouldn't even be a passing thought. And curing them is not a cure for AS!


I never said that depression is a symptom of AS. Kepra is for epilepsy, well I'll have to take your
word for it, but I'm not epileptic. It's for anxiety. And the Trazadone lets me sleep. So?
I'm not seeking a cure, but these medications work insofar as I can get from day to day without being burdened with all the pain and confusion that used to define my life.
But maybe my doctor is wrong, and you're right. I really don't know, and I don't care. I just know that I feel a great deal better than I ever did in my life.
And what the hell does "comorbid" mean? It's not in my dictionary.
(I'm guessing right about now that if I don't know then I must not really have Asperger's, which would be fine by me. Anyway, what do doctors know? I'll have to ask mine about "comorbid" the next time I see him. I swear, some of you guys are attached to these terms like they're your life savings or something.)


You need a better dictionary.


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2ukenkerl
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05 Nov 2007, 9:12 am

jazzguy wrote:
2ukenkerl wrote:
Celexa is for depression, NOT an AS symptom!
Kepra is for epilepsy, NOT an AS symptom!
Trazadone is for depression/sleep, NOT an AS symptom!

Though some may claim they are symptoms, they are really comorbids or outgrowths. and they are certainly NOT the main symptoms of AS. If any doctor saw just THEM, AS wouldn't even be a passing thought. And curing them is not a cure for AS!


I never said that depression is a symptom of AS. Kepra is for epilepsy, well I'll have to take your
word for it, but I'm not epileptic. It's for anxiety. And the Trazadone lets me sleep. So?
I'm not seeking a cure, but these medications work insofar as I can get from day to day without being burdened with all the pain and confusion that used to define my life.
But maybe my doctor is wrong, and you're right. I really don't know, and I don't care. I just know that I feel a great deal better than I ever did in my life.
And what the hell does "comorbid" mean? It's not in my dictionary.
(I'm guessing right about now that if I don't know then I must not really have Asperger's, which would be fine by me. Anyway, what do doctors know? I'll have to ask mine about "comorbid" the next time I see him. I swear, some of you guys are attached to these terms like they're your life savings or something.)


OK, JUST FOR YOU, instead of saying comorbid, I will say "An ailment/syndrome not caused by or representing another ailment/syndrome, but which shows up with it with a frequency statistically higher than would otherwise be expected!" Of course, I COULD use the less accurate description given by dictionary.com "existing simultaneously with and usually independently of another medical condition ".

As for "being attached", it is a common, briefer, and more precise way of describing it! And YEP, doctors aren't perfect. I have been gathering data on this for a couple years, and LIVED with it for over 40 years!, how long has your doctor been looking at AS? ALSO, there ARE a LOT of quacks out there! You may feel better, but those symptoms are NOT AS symptoms. ALSO, if those are your ONLY problems, you DON'T have AS!



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05 Nov 2007, 1:47 pm

2ukenkerl wrote:
I have been gathering data on this for a couple years, and LIVED with it for over 40 years!, how long has your doctor been looking at AS? ALSO, there ARE a LOT of quacks out there! You may feel better, but those symptoms are NOT AS symptoms. ALSO, if those are your ONLY problems, you DON'T have AS!


Let me see if I understand you. Since a doctor diagnosed me with AS, and prescribed pills that make me feel better, I don't have AS, but if you read up on it and decide that you have it, then you do. Is that what you're saying?


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05 Nov 2007, 2:46 pm

Hey 2ukenkerl: Just for the hell of it I took an Apserger's test, the one that shows the results on an octagon, and my "Aspie" score was 179 out of 200, NT 23 out of 200. I have therefore diagnosed myself as having AS. So is it alright if I stay?


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05 Nov 2007, 3:02 pm

No one is in a position to diagnose someone else on the internet.


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05 Nov 2007, 3:05 pm

MrMark wrote:
No one is in a position to diagnose someone else on the internet.


not necessarily true. if the person with AS lists all his symptoms online and the symptoms seem to be exactly like the symptoms from the DSM section for Asperger's, I see no reason why it would be logical to conclude that the person actually does have AS...

true, you can't be sure, but doctors can also improperly determine that someone with AS doesn't have AS.


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2ukenkerl
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05 Nov 2007, 4:30 pm

jazzguy wrote:
2ukenkerl wrote:
I have been gathering data on this for a couple years, and LIVED with it for over 40 years!, how long has your doctor been looking at AS? ALSO, there ARE a LOT of quacks out there! You may feel better, but those symptoms are NOT AS symptoms. ALSO, if those are your ONLY problems, you DON'T have AS!


Let me see if I understand you. Since a doctor diagnosed me with AS, and prescribed pills that make me feel better, I don't have AS, but if you read up on it and decide that you have it, then you do. Is that what you're saying?


He did NOT prescribe pills for AS! He prescribed them for SYMPTOMS! And NO, I didn't say that means you don't have AS. I said if that is ALL you have then you don't have AS!



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05 Nov 2007, 4:34 pm

jazzguy wrote:
Hey 2ukenkerl: Just for the hell of it I took an Apserger's test, the one that shows the results on an octagon, and my "Aspie" score was 179 out of 200, NT 23 out of 200. I have therefore diagnosed myself as having AS. So is it alright if I stay?


You didn't diagnose yourself. You used a program. Even RDOS will tell you it isn't perfect. He is doing a great job, etc... but it isn't perfect. Temper it with some reason, look at the DSM, etc... HECK, it doesn't take development or other diagnosis into account.

BTW I never said you couldn't stay. I don't have any right to do so anyway.



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05 Nov 2007, 5:26 pm

2ukenkerl wrote:
You didn't diagnose yourself. You used a program. Even RDOS will tell you it isn't perfect. He is doing a great job, etc... but it isn't perfect. Temper it with some reason, look at the DSM, etc... HECK, it doesn't take development or other diagnosis into account.


Okay so please tell what I should to to conform that I do, in fact, have AS. We've ruled out two doctor's diagnoses and the test I just took. And what, pray tell, is the DSM?


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05 Nov 2007, 5:29 pm

jazzguy wrote:
And what, pray tell, is the DSM?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diagnostic_and_Statistical_Manual_of_Mental_Disorders

Specific DSM criteria for Asperger Syndrome:
http://www.udel.edu/bkirby/asperger/aswhatisit.html#DSM



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05 Nov 2007, 6:20 pm

jazzguy wrote:
2ukenkerl wrote:
You didn't diagnose yourself. You used a program. Even RDOS will tell you it isn't perfect. He is doing a great job, etc... but it isn't perfect. Temper it with some reason, look at the DSM, etc... HECK, it doesn't take development or other diagnosis into account.


Okay so please tell what I should to to conform that I do, in fact, have AS. We've ruled out two doctor's diagnoses and the test I just took. And what, pray tell, is the DSM?


The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders- basically the Bible of diagnosis for psychological, speech, neurological, etc. disorders. Not that it is truly comprehensive, and it needs to be updated badly (which is happening right now), but it is generally considered the basis for diagnosis in psychology and psychiatry. I'm surprised you haven't heard of it.



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05 Nov 2007, 7:50 pm

LostInSpace wrote:
The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders- basically the Bible of diagnosis for psychological, speech, neurological, etc. disorders. Not that it is truly comprehensive, and it needs to be updated badly (which is happening right now), but it is generally considered the basis for diagnosis in psychology and psychiatry. I'm surprised you haven't heard of it.


Why would I have heard of it?


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05 Nov 2007, 8:21 pm

jazzguy wrote:
LostInSpace wrote:
The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders- basically the Bible of diagnosis for psychological, speech, neurological, etc. disorders. Not that it is truly comprehensive, and it needs to be updated badly (which is happening right now), but it is generally considered the basis for diagnosis in psychology and psychiatry. I'm surprised you haven't heard of it.


Why would I have heard of it?


You've said you talked to a doctor about it, who thought you had it. If so, it would be rare for him not to have told you about the DSM indicators



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05 Nov 2007, 9:01 pm

jazzguy,

You are not only welcome here, but watching you spar with the concept, you are showing traits.

There is a differance between Professional Aspies, those who have been Dxed, those who have looked at every option with obsessive interest, and old free range aspies like me.

I only recently learned it existed, mostly by defining what it is not, hence my point of view.

An inability in social communication, lack of eye contact, and personal interest overriding what everyone knows you should be doing, which they can't explain, because, everyone knows.

A normal to above IQ, and no other pervasive mental condition. Aspies can become depressed, one out of seven I hear is treated for depression, that is the big world, not us. It is the most common human condition, does respond to pills, and getting to the bottom of the cause, pills are often no longer needed.

Depression can lead to siezures, and sleeping problems.

So I can agree with your doctors.

You had an unrealized case of AS. It lead to severe depression, with side effects, they have stablized you.

You spar well here, your depression is under control, or you would be screaming at these annoying aspies, you deal with stress well, and I am sure you will come to terms with the cause of your depression, it is very treatable.

It was most likely caused by trying to be normal, fit in, and everything not working. We do that a lot. The problem is, AS is hardly noticeable, yet it affects what is most important to humans, communication.

We are so close, we try so hard, and people read us as uncaring a**holes and worse, thinking we are doing it on purpose, while we are trying as hard as we can to get through.

The big problem is not knowing there is a real reason, and taking it as a personal fault, I am just wierd and messed up.

It is not so, we are good humans, with a communication problem, and much of it can be overcome by adaptave behavior, a little kindness, and common sense.

Most got by with no help, no knowledge, for the last few thousand years. Doctors have their faults, this is new to most, only since 1994, and errors have been made. They are good when something has to be done now. As you describe your life, they did right by you. One well earned point for the Doctors.

I see no doctors, take no drugs, and though myself a personallity type, not common, but not beyond being a human. At first I resented that it was a syndrome, yes I fit the traits, but where is the problem? First I found myself here, but not with all that other stuff, and doubted I fit. Then I saw it as a catchall, people who do not fit other criteria. It does not really exist. That would be good if it would go away, but...

So now I am back to saying yes, a light case, no co-morbids, but I am kidding myself, my depression was just not that bad. I am you minus a few bad days.

I am still trying to define the exact communication problem. In person, problems, over the Internet, I sell on ebay, no problems at all. We are very close, and very far away. I eat Asian food, for Asians see a white devil, but Americans act like they see a demon. Sometimes I get by, sometimes people act like they want to kill me. I flip some switch on some people.

What I have found is I can talk to people on WP, and they have the same background. It is a support site. It is also not like other things, a drunk can stop drinking, we can never stop. We seem to learn to get by, but not to really ever fit in.

OK, it beats shooting up insulin, taking heart meds, being on death row, but still, some more work to do.

You are welcome and belong here, because you came here to talk out your problems, laid your cards on the table, and have tried to understand. AS may seem to be trying to be annoying, but that is just the way they speak, which is the problem, but give us this one place where we can live without the masks.

We each have something to offer, a point of view. I am good with sixty year old men who have just discovered this, and make no sense out of all that alphabet code. You too have a good point of view, the sudden and total education you got. Others will follow your path, you can help them.

Welcome, deal with one thing at a time at your pace, please stay.



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06 Nov 2007, 1:45 am

Hey well, yeah. Thank you, Inventor. Really, thank you man. But I'm a long way from being sixty years old!


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Last edited by jazzguy on 06 Nov 2007, 2:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

jazzguy
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06 Nov 2007, 2:05 am

Triangular_Trees wrote:
You've said you talked to a doctor about it, who thought you had it. If so, it would be rare for him not to have told you about the DSM indicators


How do you know that it would be rare for him to not have told me about it? How many doctors have you spoken with about AS who told you about the DSM whatever-the-hell-it-is? WHERE did you hear about DSM, exactly?
Now, Inventor, he seems like a nice guy, or girl, can't tell from his or her handle. But you guys who just want to argue about my validity, well, you know what you can do. I've been putting up with that s**t all my life. It's funny that I would encounter it HERE, of all places.
For my entire life I've been told that I'm not smart enough, or strong enough, or good enough, that I behave badly and don't take responsibility and I look and act weird and blah blah blah. Now I come to this site only to be told by some people here that I'm a failure at having AS! Goddamnit! Can you not see how ludicrous that is?


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