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nominalist
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11 Nov 2007, 3:09 pm

IMO, if there is a next step in our social and cultural evolution, it should be an embracing of our neurodiversity.

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-Vorzac-
Velociraptor

Joined: 26 May 2007
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 439

11 Nov 2007, 3:11 pm

2ukenkerl wrote:

-Vorzac- wrote:

2ukenkerl wrote:

A ALWAYS equals A!

Yes, A does equal A, I've never seen A be C, or E or F. A spade is a spade whatever you call it.

This was SO wrong, I HAD to speak up! A ALWAYS has to equal something else to be a solution. Sometimes A DOES equal C, or e or f!! !!

I guess you never took algebra. The whole point of algebra is to find A, X or whatever! In other words, make it equal to something else!

I'm number dyslexic, thank you very much. If you want I could get haughty about how you've never performed a sold out play in front of a 500 seat audience if you're going to start acting like I'm an idiot for not knowing algebra. Again, I state that the solution is a psychological state of mind, not something effable. Now, anything else?

Macallan
Deinonychus

Joined: 15 Oct 2007
Age: 58
Gender: Female
Posts: 371

11 Nov 2007, 3:20 pm

-Vorzac- wrote:

Ah, but most gays don't claim that they're superior to straight people, constantly talk about how it's better to be gay than straight, and stereotype Heterosexuality with their prejudices and say that should not have anything to do with straight people and only talk to other gays.

Maybe most don't, but some do and are quite militant about it. Takes all sorts.

Quote:

to be honest, I don't personally think you have the right to defy the diagnosis of autism as a mental and neural deficit by health professionals when you yourself have not been diagnosed.

Fine. You're entitled to your opinion. Enjoy.

I was unaware that diagnosis brought extra 'rights' as to what I could and couldn't think, agree with or 'defy'. So I think that if I want the right to an opinion on autism as a deficit, I'll have one, regardless of my diagnosed status. Thanks all the same.
:lol:

-Vorzac-
Velociraptor

Joined: 26 May 2007
Age: 38
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Posts: 439

11 Nov 2007, 3:31 pm

Macallan wrote:

-Vorzac- wrote:

to be honest, I don't personally think you have the right to defy the diagnosis of autism as a mental and neural deficit by health professionals when you yourself have not been diagnosed.

Fine. You're entitled to your opinion. Enjoy.

It's nothing personal, but judging from what you've said, you seem pretty mild, if you have it at all, which is always a chance. But that is, as you state, just my opinion, nothing more.

Macallan
Deinonychus

Joined: 15 Oct 2007
Age: 58
Gender: Female
Posts: 371

11 Nov 2007, 3:56 pm

-Vorzac- wrote:

It's nothing personal, but judging from what you've said, you seem pretty mild, if you have it at all, which is always a chance. But that is, as you state, just my opinion, nothing more.

You wanna see my online test results? :wink:

I'm curious as to how you've judged what I've said. Maybe I am mildly AS, or maybe I've been practising at being an NT for so long now it even comes across through a keyboard (Yayy! Go me :roll:

), or maybe I really don't have AS and have something else entirely - who knows?

Diagnosis won't add anything to my life and may just complicate it, so I'm not going to find out. In the meantime, I've found a great deal of common ground with people here, and as diagnosis is not a prerequiste for WP, I think I'll hang around for a while yet.

'I am what I am, I am my own special creation....' *leaves thread singing*

Liverbird
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Joined: 13 Jun 2007
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11 Nov 2007, 4:14 pm

Boys, as I see it, you need to put your dicks back in. None of us are that interested. It's not cute, and pissing contests are just messy.

Now that I've sufficiently insulted everyone, let's get to the heart of the matter. KevinLA's position is that you should not accept who you are. That you should strive to fit into the "normal" box. He also claims that he's much happier having forced himself to fit into the "normal" box.

My first question is: who is he trying to convince? Us or himself?

As someone who spent years trying to fit into the box and being miserable doing it, I find it hard to believe that anyone has found the magic formula to make us all look just like everyone else. Even when I dress exactly like posh princess posey I'm always going to look down and see the vintage shoes or the rhinestone bracelet, or some little part of my personality that just can't help itself from poking out. And I'm going to think WTF Screwed myself again.

So, I think the entire beginning of the fight is suspect. I mean, I suppose it's possible that thousands of us have absolutely missed the boat here. I suppose it's possible that we're all just deluding ourselves saying that we're happy with the people that we are and we've accepted that we just don't fit in. I suppose it's possible. It would be awful sad. But possible.

Now, I know I'm opening myself up to be beat up and bashed here. But I lived in Asia for 10 years and I can tell you that I can pee standing up too and with a little control I can write my name in the snow. I've got my big girl panties on and I think I can take it. I can tell you that I know who and what I am and I will always defend my right to be exactly that person. Good or bad. I will also defend your right to be your own self. Regardless of whether or not I agree with you or think you are an idiot or a genius. It's still your right. However, I do think it's unfair of anyone to bash anyone else for that.

KevinLA opened this conversation on the wrong foot by basically bashing everyone for accepting who they are.

I guess what I'm saying is that if others are happy accepting who they are, quirks/weirdities/tics and all then it is wrong of anyone to say that is wrong. All of us as humans, aspies or NT, have to find the road that we can travel on. Some of us have a lot of bumps and car accidents. Some of us find an easier road.

Do your damage.

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I've got them in my garden now
And you're not welcome here" ---Poe

LadyBug
Toucan
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Joined: 6 Jul 2004
Gender: Female
Posts: 266
Location: Maryland

11 Nov 2007, 4:20 pm

KevinLA wrote:

Your being delusional. You need to change. I posted this in another thread. I will copy and paste it.

DO NOT ACCEPT WHO YOU ARE. It is natural instinct to do this. Look at reality. You are NOT functional in this society. When I was in my teens I knew I was different but didn't know why. I went through the next 10 years of my life accepting who I was but was an outcast. I was miserable the whole 10 years with no friends, no steady employment. I was diagnosed with AS. I was determined that I needed to change. I changed dramatically, but unfortunately I had other circumstances that hindered me. If I did not have these other roadblocks, I am convinced I would have been a happy and functional member of society. Understand that you need to change. Observe how other people act socially and at work. At first, it will not feel natural to act like others, but eventually you can become like them

NTs don't relate to us because we are oddballs. Can anyone honestly say they would rather have AS than be an NT? Come on people. It takes a lot of effort to remove yourself from the AS world, but it can be done.

Hahahaaaaaaaaaa! Have you been hangin' out with Amy and the Aspie for Freedom crew? I hate the Aspie term. Either you are Autistic and/or with a mental illness or disease, or you are not. There is no inbetween. If you want to lay down and die saying: "I can't, my parents and doctor told me so." Have fun!

LadyBug
Toucan
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11 Nov 2007, 4:22 pm

Liverbird wrote:

I like pissing contests. Let the games begin!

-Vorzac-
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Joined: 26 May 2007
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 439

11 Nov 2007, 4:31 pm

LadyBug wrote:

KevinLA wrote:

that's very polarised thinking, and I disagree. you can have aspergers but train yourself to think like a neurotypical person. this is what Kevin is trying to say.

Everybody seems to think that being Neurotypical is the equivelent of being a clone. I know more NT individuals than I know Aspie ones. if you learn to develop neurotypical traits, you can have the best of both worlds. I've developed so much that If it wasn't for my diagnosis, I would not consider myself autistic. In fact I feel NT alot of the time, I manage to fit in while sustaining my individuality. I apparently still exhibit autistic traits but I have no social functioning difficulty.

this is what I've been trying to say, I suppose, but it's hard to think straight during a psychotic episode (sorry everyone).

LadyBug
Toucan
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11 Nov 2007, 6:57 pm

-Vorzac- wrote:

LadyBug wrote:

KevinLA wrote:

Yeah, a supposed psychotic episode can be a b***h, huh? Personally, I think we are all neurotypical, with some being so more than others. Currently, Dr. Simon Baron Cohen is attributing that more to testosterone exposure in the womb, in some cases. I don't know.

sparkman
Sea Gull

Joined: 16 May 2005
Age: 41
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Posts: 202
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11 Nov 2007, 7:19 pm

sparkman wrote:

Asperger Syndrome is not an illness and to say its a defect is questionable.

-Vorzac- wrote:

[then why is it called a syndrome?

Why is Asperger's Syndrome not rather called Asperger's illness? The person who diagonsed me told me that Asperger's Syndrome is a difference not an illness. My understanding of the word "syndrome" is that it does not necessarily imply illness. It could imply a set of observed chariteristics which have formed the Asperger's diagnosis, nothing more. Syndrome is a very lose term.

-Vorzac- wrote:

Okay so maybe I say aspergers when infact I mean the social deficit side of it. I have noticed though that there are problems with perception. I think it is technically a defect, just as deafness and blindness is. I say this as someone who is considered disabled. it doesn't have to make you les of a person, but I have seen people on this forum you use it as a crutch.

I am diagnosed with it but I don't think of myself as having an "illness" or a "defect". I feel that i am disadvantaged in certain but areas not defective in them. I can socialize by talking but not as effectivly as someone who has a complete understanding of body language/ social cues. No matter how hard you try you can not change to become a NT. There will be some people who have been diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome who will find it much harder then you have to socialize and make friends. Because their symtoms may be more extreme then yours and its improper to assume that most people with this condition are using it as a crutch. Some people simply dont value social interaction as much and prefer to keep to themselves. For this reason I don't think there are many who use it as a crutch. I don't think its possible to tell what a person is like just by what they post because you cant see them in real life.

sparkman wrote:

you are the one who sounds shallow.

-Vorzac- wrote:

examples please.

Because you seem to make judgements about people very easily. The examples are in what you have written. You seem to be telling people what they should/shouldn’t do. Rather then expressing an opinion.

sparkman wrote:

why do you assume that you are something special and other people here have not made an effort to improve their lives?

-Vorzac- wrote:

I actually don't, I just get angry with people who act like NT are lesser than they are. Remember, I started posting in this thread to defend KevinLA, who I felt had the right idea and yet everyone shot him down for suggesting people adapt.

Well I get angry when you say that people are using their diagnosis as a crutch because I believe that most of us dont.

Last edited by sparkman on 11 Nov 2007, 7:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

2ukenkerl
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11 Nov 2007, 7:20 pm

-Vorzac- wrote:

2ukenkerl wrote:

-Vorzac- wrote:

2ukenkerl wrote:

A ALWAYS equals A!

Yes, A does equal A, I've never seen A be C, or E or F. A spade is a spade whatever you call it.

Your right. The biggest audience I had was perhaps 300. :cry:

I NEVER called you an idiot for not knowing algebra. I never would. I'm not that great myself.

KevinLA
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11 Nov 2007, 7:27 pm

I can't believe some of the stuff I am reading in this thread. I can't even respond to it. It would be like arguing with someone that the sky is blue.

I will say though, I could have used a better choice of words than "Do not accept who you are". I actually would attribute my use of those words to my AS. I didn't think about what I wrote. Better words would be, "Fight the pattern of thinking that this horrible disorder causes."

beau99
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11 Nov 2007, 7:28 pm

KevinLA wrote:

I will say though, I could have used a better choice of words than "Do not accept who you are". More like, "Fight the pattern of thinking that this horrible disorder causes."

But AS isn't really horrible and is not a disorder, contrary to what people want you to think.

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KevinLA
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11 Nov 2007, 7:35 pm

beau99 wrote:

But AS isn't really horrible and is not a disorder, contrary to what people want you to think.

I have no friends, no job, no real hobbies , am physically sick the rest of my life (long story, it is indirectly due to AS though), and am on federal disability because of AS. It is not horrible?

I see you are 21. I am 36. I have 15 years of real world experience with this. You have 0 years of real world experience. Take my advice.

sparkman wrote:

The person who diagonsed me told me that Asperger's Syndrome is a difference not an illness.

The person is being nice. I guess that person would say someone born without legs is a difference.

I am done with this thread.

Last edited by KevinLA on 11 Nov 2007, 9:10 pm, edited 4 times in total.

KevinLA
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11 Nov 2007, 7:40 pm

...and I can't even respond to a post correctly because of AS.

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