Autism a childhood disorder?

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Most people don't seem to know this but part of the criteria for a valid AS diagnosis is "The disturbance causes clinically significant impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning." http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/overvi ... iteria.htm

I don't think anyone living a fairly normal life can meet that criteria. Some people here who are so well off that they think they're superior to others were almost certainly misdiagnosed and don't have AS.

I think that with the changes that are being discussed for the DSM-V, that the new criteria will definitely cover what is the more realistic experience of AS.

I know when we went through getting my son dx'd, the tell was the meltdown he had in the office. Seeing him do that and the typical hand motions and stuff that go with it, finally convinced them that he was.

I'm so tired of everyone's outdated ideas of what AS is and telling me that I'm not or my son's not because we happen to be able to function a little bit socially. I'm especially fed up with having to defend the dx lately.

It's stupid. If you are so stupid that you think that all people that have a specific dx are exactly the same (LFA or Rainman) then you should terminate your ability to live.

One can have an "almost-normal" life and be impaired at the same time. On the surface I appear to be a pretty successful if highly introverted college student, but those who know more about my life know that I am moderately impaired by AS traits such as rigid thinking and difficulty with unpredictable situations, as well as by co-existing anxiety and mood problems. AS/HFA might not always be glaringly obvious--it can still cause problems. There are also people on the spectrum who have adapted very will with a ton of effort. The DSM is a bit short-sighted, IMHO, by looking only at outward appearances of "functioning" without taking account how much effort it might take to get there. Environment can also play a huge role in how "high functioning" someone might appear to be.

zendell wrote:

Define impairment. I am successful in "life" in that I have a career, a wife, children a house, etc. I have been "impaired" in getting these things along the way. My IQ is at least 1/3rd higher than most of my colleagues, and while I have those things, I gained them about 12-15 years later than I would have had I been an NT in the same career track. That caused a HUGE disparity in wealth. NT's in my area of expertise would have made full vice president by now, not just assistant vice president, they would be making 30%-40% more than I do right now. I had to LEARN all the correct social cues and usages. I live a comfortable life, by MY criteria. I do not socialize, except with a couple of close friends, who ALSO are on the spectrum. We drive domestic vehicles more than 10 years old, rather than imports right off the lot. We do not take vacation trips, no $$. The cost of feeding, housing and feeding two teenaged boys and retiring the debt we accumulated GETTING here absorbs every penny. Is my lifestyle impaired? Just about every NT I know considers it to be so just because I don't socialize and don't worship the all high god called SPORTS. Yes, I can interact with NT's and do so with success. Yes I can navigate the corporate waters. Doesn't change the way my head is wired. And you want to tell me because I can do those things I don't have AS?? I sweated BLOOD to get here, cried tears, bear the scars and feel the PAIN of the long hard road. When you've walked that road for almost 50 years, THEN think about "who had what". Pay your dues.

For his specific type of Autism he was high functioning but overall I think he was mid-functioning.

I was calling around trying to get insurence and I kept getting the "AS is for kids " thing. Its a developmental condition, you don't grow out of it or are cured. At best you learn coping stratagies like the original post but then get accuse of not being AS.

Just because I'm really good reading lips does not mean I'm not still deaf.

What I'm worried about is if AS gets to be more well know EVERY eccentric will get labeled with it and they'll start getting the pharmacutical companies involved and screw up real truth and real treatment.

Kinda what happened with ADD.

On the off chance that you are serious: "autistic" a century ago referred to a personality type, and Kanner only used it as a label; to know more, you can reach me at [email protected] and many people in the field will vouch for me.

I did know that. But impaired does not equate to being unable to find work or live independently. In some cases it would do, in some cases it would mean having a lot of difficulty in doing those things.

I think you're very wrong there.

I live a fairly normal life on the outside but suffer tremendously with social interaction with new people or even people I haven't spoken to in a while. Friends and workmates don't seem to notice too much (although they may just not mention it!?!) as over the years (before I knew of AS) I've tried to pick things up as I've interacted with different people I've managed to meet/befriend(or vice-versa more likely).

OK, you want to fight with facts? You want to choose your source? *****DON'T***** misquote!! !! You misquoted in TWO clear ways!

1. You misdirected! That word CLINICALLY, and the word OR change the meaning! You strongly implied that clinically didn't exist, and that the conjunction was AND!

2. You took it out of context! ANOTHER part of the SAME page you pointed to said:



Those 2 are VERY clear and VERY important! In fact, the site that you pointed to basically says that these TWO things are the ONLY things seperating autism and AS!! !! !! Check it out! HERE are the differences:

Section A2 of autism says what you imply about AS, contradicts what I say about AS, and is NOT present in AS! B contradicts me, and C is overkill if what I say is true, so they are ALSO not present in the AS listing! A NEW C was added that says what you quoted. D and E, which I quoted, were added. Since it could seem so relatively normal, section F was added to exclude some other disorders. Outside of formatting changes, it seems like these were the only changes.

BTW The CDC( Center for Disease Control) isn't exactly the final authority here, but it IS authoritative! It is a government agency that watches things like this!

BTW I marveled today about how I really DO hide disabilities of a sort. I was in a meeting and not REALLY listening to the whole thing. Frankly, I guess I just can't focus because I just don't care. 50% is worthless dreck, like 20% is WRONG, and perhaps 80% of the rest just doesn't apply. Still, I make up for it by reading, and just KNOWING. So I DO have some problems, but that doesn't keep me from earning a good income. In the end, they come to ME for answers anyway! So a problem, like I just mentioned, would likely be clinically significant, but NOT significant in my life.

Give it time [well,a lot] and eventually they will see the adult side of autism and aspergers.
The same thing happened with Downs,and DS adults are a lot more accepted,less stereotyped and more understood now.

"Define impairment" I'm not an expert but I think the reason it's listed in the DSM is to help treat it. I'm guessing impairment means it's enough of a problem that treatment is needed for it. I don't mean it isn't a problem. Some people are sad and mildly depressed but not severe enough to meet the criteria for clinical depression even though its still a problem.

I wouldn't consider suffering tremendously with social interaction to be fairly normal. I was referring to people who state they can socialize fine but choose not to, can communicate but choose to be different, and state their better and happier than NTs.

I am someone who tends to blend superficially well into a social setting. However, not on a deeper level. And after the day I just had today, I swear I'll cyber-punch anyone who says I don't suffer enough to be considered autistic.

BUT, zendell, I am one of those that most people upon meeting me tend to consider me too "high functioning" to be autistic. Eccentric, yes, but I've apparently adapted too well. I go to school, I don't act like a complete imbecile and ruin every relationship I come across, I'm not so depressed that I lose all motivation, and I look forward to an enjoyable career. I am diagnosed with AS; but still, I'd imagine you'd point your finger my way in an accusatory manor, implying I am a faker or have hopped on the Fad Diagnosis Wagon just because I DO happen to ENJOY my life.

Autism isn't an exclusive club and you aren't the bouncer.

Even if, after my ranting, you say that you didn't mean me, then I still take offense. We're all here to explore ourselves, to explore autism, to socialize and support other people; and if some of those people only have self-dxes, then that's good enough for me. If the label gives them some direction in life then I say good for them!

zendell wrote:

You are correct in ONE thing. You are not an expert. Yet you persist in talking this way, as if you ARE an expert and with little or no regard for the struggles of those who have gone on before you. Boy, you should thank whatever god you kowtow to for those like me. My brothers and sisters on the spectrum and I have fought for acceptance, fought for our right to be different and succeed, fought for services and the schools you are enjoying. Without that fight, if you are affected as you have said in other posts, you may have well been steered into classes where you were taught to wash dishes as if it were a great challenge for you, taught to perform menial tasks where others wouldn't have to see you, taught to be a cog and not to THINK 'cause "you ain't normal, now IS you boy?" That's the way they used to talk to us, and let me tell you, if you talked back to a special ed teacher you'd be likely to get a split lip. They used to hit the kids to keep them in line. There are all sorts of impairment. It is not for you to decide, it is for a professional. Treated for what? I spent 5 weeks in a hospital while they tried to keep the ulcers in my stomach from rupturing at the age of 13. Diagnosis-stress-anxiety. I spent time the next year inpatient in a psych ward because I was suicidal. Is that treatment? I would have been JUST as affected if I'd never gone into a facility. One of my best friends in college lost his father, aneurysm-no warning. The only way he could mourn was sit and talk to me about the Italian Navy from World War II... for hours on end. It was his special interest. I couldn't tell you one thing he said about it except that stupid joke he always told.... "Why does the modern Italian Navy have glass bottomed boats?? To look at the OLD Italian Navy..." Was he affected?? Is that "normal" grief??? Look at the services and the tolerance you get today and remember those who came before you. Remember that things used to be different, and for those who WERE different, there was a very bleak future ahead. I fought the schools here for both my sons, and I won. Other parents and I fought for programs that can handle Autism Impaired children at every level in the schools here. A few years ago, we had to classify our sons as "Emotionally Impaired" or there was no program they could be admitted to. Now there are entire programs geared towards the needs of spectrum kids, instead of one classroom for the non-verbal kids. A classroom limited to 6 students for a 5 county area, I might add...

You say "I'm not an expert...", OK, I'm not a professional mental health provider, I hold my own in conversations with the ones around here and we talk pharmacology and neurochemistry, and they don't talk "down" to me. I am not an expert in that field, I won't claim to be. I'm one of the best damned educated laymen you'll find. I'm not a particle nor a quantum physicist. I read the literature constantly. I am not an expert, but I'm anxiously waiting the discovery of a Higgs Boson. I'm not a medical doctor (but I've played one many times.. sorry, I ALWAYS say that..) but I've got so many damned things wrong with my body I HAVE to keep up on the literature, as well as pharmacology. I have avoided posted on any of the IQ threads, yes I've had mine tested and no I'm not going to tell you what it was because to do so would violate one of my personal principles, but I will say I saw ONE other post with a number very close to mine. I don't crow about it, I don't flaunt it (usually) but money kept me out of advanced degrees, and an almost crippling inability to interact at the graduate level in seminars. Social phobia. Am I "affected"???

This has been a civil rights fight, for the past 30+ years, and we've been fighting it. Let me tell you something about a fight, you get hurt, you get hurt BAD sometimes, but if you keep fighting, sometimes you win. We're winning, slowly, but we're winning, we're gaining acceptance in the NT world and we're SLOWLY shedding the memories of those "special ed" classes that so many my age can remember. The kids who had to walk everywhere in a line holding on to the person in front of them. The kids who weren't allowed to talk to us, the kids we weren't allowed to talk TO. The kids the teachers hit, sometimes for no reason we could see. They hit us, too, if they had a reason. That's the way it WAS in the '60's, at least in the South. Just because we're all colors, and all sexes and all religions doesn't mean this isn't about civil rights. It always HAS been, then you come along and say "shouldn't be included"? I'm white, and every time I hear Dr King's famous speech it brings tears to my eyes... I know what it is to have a dream. So do a lot of others. Don't try to judge what level "affected" is, you don't have the qualifications. THINK about the world you're getting to live in, then give some other's their props, boy.

I think the main problem is that a lot of people and groups, particularly HMO, think they know more than they do. But an insurance company, office service rep., ETS disability rep. extra are not experts and don't know or wish to acknowledge that ASDs are Chronic Conditions. They do not go away. Sometimes they refuse to even look at the evidence or accept it from a professional, because they don't want to be "confused by the facts" as my father would say.