For curebie hating, NT-bashing, holier than thou aspies

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With false statements like that, why should anyone bother to read more?

My brother is about your age, and he did go through a period of being incredibly depressed about not finding a woman to date him. He went through personals ads and did get one-night stands or short relationships but the people answering the ads were often very messed up (I remember one who was a murderer). There had been, prior to this, one woman he was truly in love with and might have married, but other people drove them apart in really manipulative ways from what I remember (I was too young to understand all the words about it when it was happening).

I don't know if he got cognitive-behavioral therapy or not. But he did say he's the only person he knows who benefited from therapy in general. He also went, along with a good friend of mine, to a coach who taught him and my friend the meaning and purpose of non-autistic social interaction, and taught them how to understand and do it when possible. He also joined a UU church (I'm... way-not-UU... but it's him, not me, and he likes it).

And while he still is not doing great in the romance department (but neither are lots of 40-something bachelors) he does have a lot of friends, and a job, and he is happy.

A lot of the things that a friend of mine taught me in order to overcome depression are things that are taught in CBT, so I've heard it's basically what happens when you get what used to be commonsense advice about how to change what you think about the world, but you get it from a professional, then it's called CBT. But I learned it all from a friend -- basically how to stop destructive and pointless thoughts, replace them with more accurate but also more positive thoughts, etc. (And I have OCD so that's not easy or fast.) And I had been depressed for most of my life (my entire life since shortly after starting school, basically), including suicidally depressed in parts of it while making serious attempts, but after several years of practicing what she taught me I am on stabler ground emotionally than I ever have been, and currently my only struggles with depression are related to SAD and easily cured with light.

So I can definitely vouch for... having had a kind of severe depression that was totally unresponsive to anti-depressants and traditional therapy... but learning from a friend how to change the thoughts that lead to the sort of endless emotional spiral downward, was really hard, and took a long time, but really worth it. Especially since I don't respond to psych drugs (which in depression often do no better than placebo -- they make you feel like you're doing something, which is a feeling that is in itself the antithesis of depression... this can explain a lot of things that get rid of depression, really, as long as you feel like you're helping yourself out of it, eventually it can come true or at least you feel somewhat better).

Both my brother and I did benefit more from learning to think differently about our lives (which is what CBT is about as far as I can tell), than from much of anything else. It doesn't make me non-autistic, but it makes me not depressed and certainly no longer suicidal. And I really have gained more friends after not being depressed all the time, than I gained when I was depressed all the time. And I am stronger and more impervious to the crap life throws at me than I ever was before -- these things can teach you how to handle hardship of most kinds without falling apart as much emotionally.

So... yeah, while wary of therapy in general, the ideas behind CBT are things that could be researched and practised on one's own if one (like me) would not want to see a therapist. And they are worth a try. Sorry for the really long post, but I hadn't thought of this stuff in awhile.

That's terrible. I wonder if autistics misdiagnosed with schizophrenia can adopt children or keep ones they give birth to. It would prevent some autistics from having children.

Tell me how you can prove a negative. You would have to test every non-genetic factor and prove each one doesn't cause autism which is impossible.

I think functioning level is related to how people feel about treatment. The more problems a person has, the more they want to be cured. I think LFAs may have less problems than some other autistics and that would explain if it's true that a bunch of them don't want a cure.

High functioning end of autism - it has less impact on a person's life so there's less need for a cure

Low functioning end of autism - has some benefits such as free housing, food, no need to work or worry about bills, and stuff like that

I think those in between want a cure the most. It sucks being considered high functioning enough to work but not functioning enough to be able to get a job. I may end up homeless due to being unable to work but ineligible for disability because they think I can work.

I realize there are exceptions. I'm just referring to how I think other people think in general.



I realize that but I'm just expressing my opinion. It's not my fault if other people use it for evil purposes.

Proof by contradiction.

1. so?
2. Will they EVER by your reasoning?
3. So we should go along with what you say? It doesn't even really make a difference to this conversation anyway.
4. A lot of people have said that, and MANY symptoms wouldn't even be apparent in a good environment.
5. WHAT "studies"? A few symptoms don't show a disorder. BESIDES, removing a knife doesn't remove the cut.
6. Wow, you seem to argue both sides. MANY people have infections, EVEN things like meningitis, and don't get swelled heads. It IS interesting how sometimes ability takes a jump with head growth and that, though head growth slows dramatically, etc... the final size is so similar. Many scientists believe the size is due to a lack of paring.
7. Actually, REAL science is more than a casual observation of a similar part of the disease, and saying that is FACT.
8. I think people hate "curebies" ONLY because they don't state the FULL truth, state lies, steal money, etc....
9. WOW, I thought that was what you wanted!
10. Maybe YOU'LL be more assertive and successful with suicide.

Fair enough, I guess.

You live now, not tomorrow, I'd like to repeat that point from Zarathustra's post. It is pointless to wait for a 'cure' for all the things you miss, or rather, that you believe you miss. Try to get rid of your idea's of wha constitutes failure as well as what would mean succes. Look at what you are good at now, what things make you happy now and what you really want for yourself.

And my opinion is, all of that has been studied, and nothing has come of it, except some super salesmen selling snake oil. It is beyond proven this stuff you go on and on about is the work of quacks and frauds.

You say it could be this cause or that, but they have been screened, I doubt that autism is a plot, and you avoid any science that can be verified.

I do not think anyone is anti treatment, if it can be shown to have benefits, but you produce no proof.

Many of us older folks have learned ways of coping, that can be taught. Look at the number of married people here, they are not all high functioning, they just wanted to be married, did, and made it work.

The same for having friends, it may be more effort for us, but it can be done.

It is the same for work, look at the job, fit yourself to it, it is only a job, and few bring their personality to work.

But as has been mentioned, you go on and on about what a mess you are, and have to have a cure.

Your point of view is more of a social problem than autism. You are not trying because you need a cure, is an excuse, we are all in the same boat, and education, work, a social life, seems reachable by most.

Your cures are unsupported dreams, for all of your belief, you have not reported trying any, and the results.

It is not the results of any treatment you seek to have understood, you just want people to want a cure, where there is none. It is about the same as saying your life is worthless, until there is a cure for death. You know there could be a cure, it cannot be proven there is no cure for death, but then you want others to stop living, and look for the cure. That is where you go overboard.

It is the oldest book still in print, Gilgamesh, who wastes his life seeking immortality.

You also missed a few of my favorites, cancer was near unknown a hundred years ago, it starts with electric wires, it is still rare in places without electric power. A great wave of mental disorders arose with the broadcast of television, and the rise of autism closely matches color TV.

I was raised in the country, I can feel it in the cities, and when the power grid goes down, it is like I drop a twenty pound pack, and deeply relax.

Now it is cell phones, and the bees are getting lost, just flying away from the hive and not being able to find their way back. Electromagnetic pollution matches the changes in human medical conditions exactly. With TV and cell phones we got closer to the power, and it was not the 60 cycle, but high energy, and modulated.

Autism does not seem to affect the Amish.

It is known, has been known, I had an uncle, he died of brain cancer, very rare, except he was a high tension lineman, and it is a very common cause of death for that job.

The lead in gas did terrible things to a generation, their IQ's 20 points below what would be predicted, schools had to be dumbed down, the lead was taken out, but the damage was done.

The new atmosphere, soot particles, Nitrous Oxides, Ozone, Carbon Monoxide, plus a huge amount of solvents, Benzine, Carbon tetnacloride, and pesticides.

So your idea of autism could be caused by a virus, is missing the big picture, and we have had little luck in treating any virus.

Scientifically sound treatments for the symptoms of autism are worth listening to, you have not brought up any. It is part of the reason these cure threads are all the same.

You do not understand the scientific problem, jump from one brand of mystery snake oil to another, and anyone who questions your cures, is a curbie hating, NT-bashing, holier than thou aspie.

No, we just asked what Science are you using, if any?

I think the problem is enviormental, but when a generation is poisoned with lead, you do not tell them they should be pro cure, for the damage has been done and is irreversable. You stop putting lead in gas.

The government and oil companies did not announce they had poisoned a generation who were under five between 1955 and 1972, when lead in small amounts does it's damage, they just pulled lead from gas, paint, and ignored the problems.

Now it is broadcat TV being replaced by cable, perhaps for the same reason, and as for cell phones, it will not affect workers, it is the Social Security set who will be dying younger, saving the government lots of money.

Autism seems to be a byproduct of color TV, children develop normally till they have watched Sesame Street for a year or so, then sudden autism. It starts in the 1960's with the first mass use of color TV, as a baby sitter, and it strikes in upper class homes first.

A strong electromagnetic field can affect neural development, it has been used on fruit flys, with proven results. It can well trigger a secondary pattern of brain development in toddlers.

Cancer, shortened life expectancies, sudden death for 40,000 a year due to automobiles, were all seen as acceptable excess deaths for the benefits they brought to most.

If we had just died, no problem, our deaths would have been accepted. But we invented computers, the Internet, and have a view of Science as a way of life that stikes fear into some.

So here come people demanding that we should want to cure ourselves, when we know that cannot be done. Why is one small group the target of such attacks?

Could it be because mutants, sucessful mutants, are a major threat to the conserative Fundamentalist view of life? Because power built on social control is failing in an era built on technology and logic?

You have no Science, but you do have an agenda. You spout the Cure Autism Now line that autistics are failures at life and would be better off dead, to Degreed Professionals, Published writers, business owners, inventors, who are autistic, and have made it work. You say that marriage and children are impossible, to married people with children.

Then you and your kind resort to name calling, we must be hating, bashing, holier than thou, cowards, who could not know our own minds, because we are defective.

If you wish to seek a cure for yourself, fine. Your demands that we accept that one, you are autistic, and two, that because you say so , we are defective and should be begging for any cure, and for social control by the likes of you, are falling on deaf ears.

We are doing well and growing, you are beating a dead horse.

That can't be it for me. I was born in the 1980s, but for some reason we didn't get a color TV until a few years after I remember first seeing TV.

Yea Age 1600!

That is exactly what my NT daughter is doing for her boys. After two years of tears, counselling, learning new ways to communicate she hase two (maybe 3) sons who are proud of their asperger's brains. They are calm and self contained. Their friends know they have aspergers and two have even been to counselling with Aussie Boy! I aam so proud of the boys and how far they have come!

Way to go, Age1600! (are you 16?

Hehe thanks, I think its the best way to go, to tell ya the truth! nah ill be 23, on the 19th of february, I wish i was 16 again haha.

And I from long before. Our first set, had the cathod ray tube pointing up, and a mirror in the lid, for the rays coming out were dangerous. That was 1948, Howdy Doody caused my autism.

Through the fifties mothers continually told their children not to sit on the floor in fromnt of the tube, for something like six to eight foot was considered a safe viewing distance. Also, sitting on the floor was new, we had chairs and sofas. There were some warnings with early TV's.

It may be the screen, it may be the broadcast signal. People who live near big powerlines or broadcast stations do suffer more health problems.

I see a genitic base agravated by electronic pollution, a few stray electrons filp a switch, development takes a different path. Our world is an experiment run by mad men.

I agree with you Inventor that the worls is run by mad men (sorry, off topic)

zendell wrote:

If that's what you truly believe, then you're correct. You will never have those things. The things you do have will not satisfy, the food will be as sawdust to you and the drink will be as air....

Define "good job". I'm well paid. I don't consider it a "good" job. Although spreading pain and destruction are nice perks. No I'm not in Iraq, I repossess, I foreclose, I evict, I take away dreams and shatter lives. Actually I'm a freakin wizard at it, that "little or no empathy" thing really rocks. Find something you want to do and if you're lucky, it will pay you enough to survive. Guess what, if you were "normal" that is EXACTLY the boat you'd be in.

Have close friends. I have several. I have a LOT more people who seem to THINK I'm their friend. It's because NT's often confuse "polite co-worker" with "friend". More than 3 or 4 "good friends" is an overrated thing. NT's who have many more than that, seem to cycle through them quite quickly. Funny, if they're LUCKY, they keep 3 or 4 "good friends" for life. Wow... I feel so shortchanged.

Get a girlfriend. OK. You're on your own there. However, while I disagree with almost everything you say, you do come across as a well intentioned and sincere person. Women like that.... go figure. Try being yourself. Being someone else will only get you in trouble.

Get married... again. On your own. I will tell you this. Women LIKE men who like the "M" word. If you let it be known you're one of "those kind of guys" you might be surprised. But as Spock said to Stonn, "you may find that wanting is more satisfying than having. It is not logical, but is often true." Marry the right one, it's fine. Marry the wrong one, and you'll learn why Kipling told the soldiers, "NEVER let them give you to the women....".

Have kids... idk what they teach in schools these days, but you don't need to be married to do that. Really. Reminds me, when I was a junior in college, a very sincere freshman girl told me gravely.. "Oh, I don't BELIEVE in pre-marital sex...." I patted her hand and said, "That's OK, honey, but it exists, I can show you pictures....".

Be part of a family... many people who are married with kids are not part of a family. The closest thing I'll ever have to a REAL brother was born to different parents. I have two male siblings... Being part of a family is up to you.

I will always be lonely and depressed without biomedical treatments... Again, up to you. Many of us have used biomedical treatments over the years. I've used prescription and freelance drugs, alcohol, and sex, that's a great biomedical treatment. Really gets the endorphins going. Honestly, I'm old school, I recommend sonic treatments. Right now I'm self medicating with Evanescence at just under "hearing damage" level on my headphones.... it's f***ing GREAT.

You are probably higher functioning that me and can enjoy your life but I can't... WTF? I work with hundreds of NT's who are "higher functioning" than I am. Most of them are so miserable it rolls off them in WAVES. They don't like who they are. They don't like the WAY they are. They Are UNHAPPY PEOPLE. I'm not, at least not because of "the way I am". It's not all beer and skittles for me, but that's life. I know what I am now. I am comfortable with what I am. They are "normal". They hate what they are and what they do. They hate themselves and they hate each other. I don't hate them, I pity them. Well, with what little empathy I choose to give them, of course.

Sonny Jim, until you learn to live in your own head you will NEVER BE HAPPY, no matter what treatments you take, what "advances" you make, how you change, NONE of that will make a difference until you accept yourself as a person. You talk about treatment, have you seen a GOOD psychiatrist? For therapy I mean, not for drugs. Or a good psychologist... A counselor? You seem to have built up a lot of issues against yourself, get someone to help you work through that. You don't want to take drugs, fine, tell them that. You want to eat active bacterial cultures and scary lettuce? Fine... won't change a damned thing about who you are. Only you can do that. Peace out, but you're not going to find "help" on the internet. See a live therapist.

The rest comes with time. Sex... bfd. Got $20 in most towns and you're in... OH, you don't want SEX you want love? So does everybody else. Some even find it. The poor bastards.... well, not the 1 in 20 who gets loved BACK, yeah... but the other 19? SOL. That's the way the world works... because it's the NT way. People say "survival of the fittest". Biologists say it differently, "Mother Nature doesn't give a s**t...". She doesn't either, not really. Only other people do, but they DO get one thing right, I found it was true myself. Other people won't like you if you don't like yourself. You have to take those steps.