23 Dec 2011, 1:53 am
undefineable wrote:
Wow, a thread I wrote in resurrected after 3 YEARS?! I've grown and recovered from the removal of a tennis-ball-sized brain tumour in that time_
Anyhow, Dianthus, I suspect you've been misinterpreted.
If you look, for example, at poetry, obviously written by NT introverts for the most part, it's full of social metaphors for physical events and similar. In that sense, as long as the NT poet is only barely conscious (to begin with) of the purely physical nature of what he or she is describing - rather than beginning with the physical and building up the metaphor from there - the NT's thought process needs 'completion' in terms of social dynamics. In fact, it begins with social dynamics and only rationalises this to confirm its content, as has already been said.
The problem with seeing no connection between autistic and normal thought patterns - apart from the intuitive impossibility of two completely unrelated forms of consciousness arising independently and even co-existing within the same universe (isn't the physical universe all of a piece?) let alone the same species - is that the autistic pattern is always an option for NTs. They may try to access it as scientists, and although subconscious force of habit may make this unintentionaly inconsistent, it's always possible (in theory) simply to begin at the level of physically demonstrable facts and keep going. The reason why NT's needn't normally do this is that their brains process sensory information to the point where *social interactions reach conscious awareness as factual data*; not only has evolution ensured its accuracy, but it can still be checked using autistic/intellectual processes. It isn't that they're more emotional; it's just that the information is processed automatically - something autistic mihds/brains rarely seem to do - to create intuitive and (in the context) often emotional insights into what's going on in the surrounding world, in order to aid survival.
Western (and Buddhist) psychology claims that human beings have to prove to themselves the existence of the other in order to prove (to themselves) their own existence; if this is impossible for some autistics, they may be left with no perceived other to defend their own sense of existence against, hence the lack of concern with status. Hence the term autism and its connotations of solipsism.
I don't believe autistics do things for their own sake any more than anyone else, unless they pursue a spiritual practice so as to dis-identify with the limitations of self-interest. If we (autistics) do good, we may not be concerned with gaining a 'high social status', but may well have an eye to ensuring that society allows us to survive; if it's a particular kind of good, it may simply reflect the old story of so-called "aspie special interests" - Adrift in an infinite ocean of possibilities, we find it easier to latch on arbitrarily (the degree of randomness corresponding with the level of existential panic involved) to whatever distracts us in our inattentive moments, rather than identify with the ocean. Given the closed-off nature of an autistics' intuition, these inclinations (based on different balances of taste and chance) are likely to lean towards intellectualised 'facts' rather than the reality they represent, hence the term 'interest', rather than, say, 'passion'.
Anyhow, Dianthus, I suspect you've been misinterpreted.
If you look, for example, at poetry, obviously written by NT introverts for the most part, it's full of social metaphors for physical events and similar. In that sense, as long as the NT poet is only barely conscious (to begin with) of the purely physical nature of what he or she is describing - rather than beginning with the physical and building up the metaphor from there - the NT's thought process needs 'completion' in terms of social dynamics. In fact, it begins with social dynamics and only rationalises this to confirm its content, as has already been said.
The problem with seeing no connection between autistic and normal thought patterns - apart from the intuitive impossibility of two completely unrelated forms of consciousness arising independently and even co-existing within the same universe (isn't the physical universe all of a piece?) let alone the same species - is that the autistic pattern is always an option for NTs. They may try to access it as scientists, and although subconscious force of habit may make this unintentionaly inconsistent, it's always possible (in theory) simply to begin at the level of physically demonstrable facts and keep going. The reason why NT's needn't normally do this is that their brains process sensory information to the point where *social interactions reach conscious awareness as factual data*; not only has evolution ensured its accuracy, but it can still be checked using autistic/intellectual processes. It isn't that they're more emotional; it's just that the information is processed automatically - something autistic mihds/brains rarely seem to do - to create intuitive and (in the context) often emotional insights into what's going on in the surrounding world, in order to aid survival.
Western (and Buddhist) psychology claims that human beings have to prove to themselves the existence of the other in order to prove (to themselves) their own existence; if this is impossible for some autistics, they may be left with no perceived other to defend their own sense of existence against, hence the lack of concern with status. Hence the term autism and its connotations of solipsism.
I don't believe autistics do things for their own sake any more than anyone else, unless they pursue a spiritual practice so as to dis-identify with the limitations of self-interest. If we (autistics) do good, we may not be concerned with gaining a 'high social status', but may well have an eye to ensuring that society allows us to survive; if it's a particular kind of good, it may simply reflect the old story of so-called "aspie special interests" - Adrift in an infinite ocean of possibilities, we find it easier to latch on arbitrarily (the degree of randomness corresponding with the level of existential panic involved) to whatever distracts us in our inattentive moments, rather than identify with the ocean. Given the closed-off nature of an autistics' intuition, these inclinations (based on different balances of taste and chance) are likely to lean towards intellectualised 'facts' rather than the reality they represent, hence the term 'interest', rather than, say, 'passion'.
No, I understood it . It was the last option left..
I worked it down to probabilities. I was pressed for time and had only a few minutes in the thread, and hence another grammar flub of " another."
I sensed the thought in pictures, as I think in pictures, and played it back in a dynamic. But I can't teach them, but only have an intuitive grasp of the concept .
And nice articulated post ud.
