Catatonic

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It's like in Joseph Heller's novel, "Catch-22." Doc Daneeka knew that Orr was crazy. But according to the rules, Orr would need to ask. The "Catch-22" was that, by asking for exemption from highly dangerous bombing missions on the grounds of insanity, the applicant proved himself to be sane.

I found it -- I knew I said something like this before, around here somewhere:
"Does anyone have a special interest but not talk about it?"
http://www.wrongplanet.net/posts83681-start15.html

Clinical significance hinges on the presence of some pathology... that in some way interferes with activities and/or development in other areas.

There goes that circular reasoning again. You can't be acknowledged as an Aspie unless you have a severe disability, therefore everyone with AS is severely disabled. And since you're known to be crazy, no one has to take anything you say seriously.

Funny, how the shrinks don't count what they can't acquire by some trickery, and that they never think simply to ask in an open and straight-forward way. Typical, that voluntary information from the lowly is not trustworthy, simply because it's voluntary.

It's like the ancient Greek and Roman laws that said a slave's testimony was admissible in court only if he gave it under torture. [The Athenians were inordinately proud of their practice of examination by torture, considering it to be "the justest and most democratic way." The state maintained a public torture chamber for legal purposes (basanisterion). The interrogations there were a form of popular entertainment: "Whenever someone turns over a slave for torture, a crowd of people gathers to hear what is said."]

People are allowed to punish me or fire me for being weird. People in the personnel field openly, systematically discriminate. In some cases, they are required by formal policy to do so. But I can't call it "discrimination" unless I'm an official member of some specific, legally recognized, protected category. And even then, you couldn't prove it -- it doesn't count unless you disclose your status before you are hired. Good luck with that.

Wait -- maybe that's the answer -- Get a bunch of Aspies to apply to a certain company -- maybe a big box store or something -- and then have a class action suit against their formal policy of discriminating against what is an obvious description of an Aspie.
Nah. You still need a formal diagnosis.

This isn't exactly a response to Greentea's post. I blame her avatar (some Egyptian thing) for making me think in terms of ancient history.

I gotta go and do that real-world-life thing. Maybe I'll get back to this thread later.

Speaking of kids, no, they are not all being diagnosed properly.

Then again, they'll probably find some excuse to say that the diagnosis is no longer valid after graduation.

Also, we have plenty of kids who are not being diagnosed.

My son just graduated from high school in June. He is just like me, except that he hasn’t been abused. I’m not sure what a free-range Aspie would look like, but I think he’s a prime specimen. He was never diagnosed, or even tested or considered.

I’ve been arguing with the schools about him since Kindergarten. Had he stayed in the local hell-hole, he would have been pulverized on a daily basis, but I’m sure that he would not have been diagnosed. Aside from seeming unmotivated, there’s nothing that the locals could see that is worthy of a diagnosis.

I put him in a tiny charter school from the fourth through eighth grade, where they did listen to my parental concerns. (My being a board member might have made a difference.) I told them flat-out that academics are not my primary concern, and that socialization is where he needs the most help. They did fairly well with him, but no one ever suggested anything remotely related to Asperger’s. I know the LDTC well, and the main special ed teacher is a good friend. I now suspect that both professionals are undiagnosed Aspies themselves. The main benefit to my son was in the culture of the school and the fact that he was sheltered from the hell of normal middle school. That, and the fact that he made a few solid friendships that are still going strong. Those friendships were possible only because I was there to facilitate.

He was accepted in the county geek high school, where his nerdiness didn’t stand out too much, so he was again sheltered from the ugliness of regular public school. I tried talking to guidance councilors. They nodded and smiled, but nothing happened. He had a few lunch-time friends and saw people on-line occasionally. In four years of high school, he went out exactly twice to see high school friends, both times to the home of the same lunch-time friend. And even that was only because I nagged. I doubt that any of those friendships will continue.

That he has the brain power has never been doubted by anyone, but he never did get decent grades, for reasons that no one can see as anything but lazy. If he got better grades, he could have spent his last year of high school earning college credit, saving a ton of time and money.

He’s in for a rude awakening when he starts at the local community college next month. I’m trying to figure out how to get a support group started. I don’t know how that will go or whether it will help him (who would want to hang out with mom?) but I’m sure it would help others. Maybe, once it’s up and running, I can step back far enough that my own son will benefit.

Last edited by Tahitiii on 03 Aug 2009, 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The Military police come around and arrest my husband. I say why you arrest him? They say Catch-22. I ask what is Catch-22? They say they cannot tell me. I ask why not? They say Catch-22.

thanks..................

Tahitii, still hoping you'll answer some of my questions above and enlighten me a bit...

Hi, all.
Is anyone still around?
I keep sinking deeper and deeper, to the point where even this place isn’t fun anymore.

I’m a glutton for punishment, and tried again today to find some way out of this mess.
I went back to a psychotherapist I saw a couple of years ago. She doesn’t pretend to know much about Asperger’s, but maybe that’s just what I need. No Rx pad, no delusions of omniscience. And she agreed to see me a few times with no co-pay.

I recycled the bulk of my old 22-page letter, this time cutting it back to (only?) 14 pages, and asked her to read it while I sat there with a magazine.

She tossed me the usual, obvious suggestions (been there, done that) and then said that she would think about it and try to figure something out. I’ll see her again next week.

Just to recap the ideas that everyone gives:
(a) Get a divorce and make hubby pay alimony & child support. – Even if it were amicable, and he agreed to everything without flinching (no chance) he couldn’t support two households. That would just start a downward spiral and all four of us would end up homeless. In reality, it wouldn’t be amicable. One call to a lawyer start a war and end with a Solomon solution. The lawyers would take it all, and all four of us would be on the street in a heartbeat.
(b) Disability/welfare/whatever-you-wanna-call it. – I don’t have the personality or energy or creative lying or chutzpa or whatever-it-takes to do that. Contrary to popular delusion, applying for welfare is a full-time job and requires an elaborate song & dance. If I had the social aptitude to play that game, I wouldn’t be in this situation. (Comparable to offering a free wheelchair, then saying that you need to climb up to the fifth floor to apply.) And it would probably involve signing everything over to hubby and sleeping in the park for a few years before I would be eligible.
(c) Start over in some low-paying, crappy job that is unrelated to my field and work my way back up. – Tried that. It does nothing for my self-esteem, my resume or my executive function. It just makes me look and feel more stupid and pathetic than ever, and even less attractive to a potential employer.

I’m not really expecting any advice this time. Just a shoulder to cry on. And I need to try to drag myself out of this pit and hang out at WP again. It worked for a while.

Are you guys still around? I have a new thread, if you feel like adding your two cents.
See "Should I mug the old woman?" http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp3020238.html#3020238

I drop in here once in a while, but I've been too depressed to do it with any consistency.
I'm going to try to get back in the WP habit. Maybe it'll help me to crawl back out of this hole.

So, what's new with you guys? What have I missed?

I've felt this way since I was a teenager and finally realized that I really am different, before I thought that I could be *fixed*.

I don't know what to suggest to you. You seem like you're disgusted by doctors and probably the whole scene in general which is certainly understandable. I've been reluctant to attempt getting a diagnosis for these same reason. In the past I've pretended to to go along with th nonsense they feed me simply because I didn't want to argue, and I shouldn't have to. I shouldn't have to be the one whose being unreasonable or "rebellious" because people have their heads stuck in the sand so I choose to try and turn my strangeness into a positive thing and live the way that I want to. I'm a grown woman and even though I know I'm different, i don't wish to make a federal case out of it, so I stay away from these people.

It's not easy to be this way. I lie to people every day about what I'm really feeling because in some ways I DO want to fit in with people, even if they aren't like me and I DON'T fit in with them. It's so hard to find people like us in real life that I sometimes just settle for the closest thing I can find.

The one thing I have learned from being this way is to really listen to others and try to make people who don't fit in feel like they're being understood, because i know how it feels. I don't expect to meet many people who truly understand me but hope I can find something that will be close enough.