Are you just going to let your symptoms beat you?

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Agreed. The first step in overcoming is to confront the problem.

As much as social situations bother me, I don't totally avoid them. However, I routinely struggle to stay involved with groups I am involved with because I feel like an outsider who doesn't belong. I know that's my AS doing the talking, but social withdraw is not going to help be learn to interact better.

like a color blind person can never have "green" described to them in any way they can understand, i can not perceive what i need to do to live socially.
my "symptoms" do mot "beat" me.
i am all that i want to be without any input from other people so my "symptoms" to me are just a way of life.

my autism does not occur to me when i am feeding my wild animals. it only occurs to me when i see puzzled and disgruntled human faces.
i have no interest in their confusion so i just escape them and go back to my private life.
i am very different to any person i ever spoke to so i presume that they are not my type.
i will be how i am until i die regardless of other peoples impressions of me.

Then what the heck is it?


What has been defined empirically then?

I think that it is an extreme personality.

How does one define personality empirically?

I wish that there was a proper quantitative definition that could be measured.
That way, people would know for definite if they were AS or not.

Says who? Well a lot is about winning and losing, if you give in, and just sit in your room all day, thats losing.

Good!

And what are those traits? You can change the way you think.

There has to be a happy medium and a reward for forcing yourself to go through such things.

Such as social interaction for example...

Like having to go in and order food in a restaurant when the thought terrifies me, vs. forcing myself to attend a wild party.

If you are utterly miserable and petrified though, it is absurd to force yourself to go through those things for the sake of it. Being a little uncomfortable or nervous… is one thing.



Also, someone mentioned children and having to experience things that stress them.. I specially think there should be a happy medium there.

You should push your kids to do things, even if they protest… but if the kid is utterly miserable you shouldn’t make them go through such... or at least not alone.

Like if a child avoids social interaction at all costs, but there is a family party coming up they should attend but don’t want to because it overwhelms them/ertc.. I think a medium should be reached.

Ergo…. you go to the party for at least half an hour and attempt to talk to a few people (or at least don’t run of and hide) and then after that if you are truly unhappy… you can leave.

In that way they learn to deal with uncomfortable situations, but are not overwhelmed.

I never had any "particular phobia." My issues were mainly about being in denial about how awful people are, and giving them the benefit of the doubt beyond reason. In other words, gullible and overly generous. For example, "social anxiety" is not an issue, because new people aren't a problem for me. The trouble is with long-term relationships. They fall apart for a reason, not because I'm afraid to try.

Like ramming your head against a wall in the hope that it will someday crack.
Better to stop, re-evaluate, and climb over the thing. Call it cheating if you like.

Until you realize specifically what is holding you back. If you're in a wheel chair, there's a physical, practical reason. The idea that a crutch causes a handicap is absurd. Getting up is not an option. You don't need pep talks or vitamines or punishment or drugs for depression. None of that crap is going to make you walk. You need someone with a brain to throw down a ramp and let you through the barriers.

Like that "serenity" prayer -- "and the wisdom to know the difference."

In my game, the DM cheats and won't let me make that saving throw.

Exactly. It's extremely offensive. And it's completely insane.

Ok. It's a working theory. Like gravity and evolution. But regardless of the physics behind it, when my knees hit the sidewalk, I bleed and it's real.

That's probably the best analogy of all. It's not that I don't understand. It's that I am not able to do it. And I strongly resent being constantly punished for something that's beyond my control.

Ya got that right. And right now I'm in my whining and losing phase, because I've tried everything I can think of. I hang out at WrongPlanet and surf the net because I'm hoping for that brilliant idea that will change everything.

That whole attitude is an illusion. History is written by the victors. It's like that attitude that "god will never give you something you can't handle." The first time I heard that one, and every time since, my immediate thought is: What about all the billions of people in history who have died? Sooner or later, absolutely EVERYONE runs into something he can't handle, and dies as a result. That's a fairy tale, created by the survivors and mindlessly recited by the brainwashed.

My sister-in-law smoked for about five minutes when she was in college, then decided to "quit." Twenty five years later, she still calls herself an ex-smoker, and goes on about how easy it was. She was never really an addict, just a tourist. Because she never really had the problem, a magical wish made it go away. Contrast that with someone who started at the age of 16 and continued for 35 years.

You can't change the fact that you're color blind. You can find ways to adapt to it. You can't change the hearts of sadistic people who take advantage. Or the insensitivity of willfully ignorant people who won't give you a break.

Last edited by Tahitiii on 03 Mar 2009, 11:19 am, edited 2 times in total.

That's great advice. I push myself hard - but sometimes if a situation is just too God awful - the negative experience just feeds the fear for the next time.

There are certain situations - like ad-libbing in front of a large audience - that I am so bad at that I shouldn't do it. Thankfully, I don't need to do it and can easily get around the nightmare by always being prepared. (Good idea - anyway)

But when you put it in the context of a child - it makes total sense. My daughter is an aspie - even more so than I am. When she has a melt-down, it's "punishment" and "negative reinforcement" enough. Even when I thought she was just a "Challenging Child - Sensitive type", most resources told me to handle these situations very carefully and quietly.

Good conversation!

Ahem - Go Braves!

Yeah, don't force yourself to do something if there's no gain from it. But don't let anything stop you if you wanna do something, but are just scared.

Yeah well a computer will probably just clog your mind up.

No, you can't change physical stuff like colour blindness, and won't have much luck trying to change other people. You can only change the way you deal with it.

I think this is a good point. I was thinking about this thread yesterday and thinking about myself and how I have decided not to make any friends ever again. I wondered if that counts as "letting my symptoms beat me." I don't believe it does because I don't think that I really need friendship. It's just not worth the effort to me so why do it? However, I think this is key - I'm not going to sit around and mope that I have no friends. I am greatful that I don't have all the responsiblity and drama associated with friendship and I still have this site for expressing myself and social interaction.

Fortunately, as an adult, you can figure out for yourself where the line is between a quiet restaurant and a wild party. You're the only one in there, and the only one qualified to make that judgment.

We have a kid in our neighborhood who has lukemia. With chemotherapy, he has no immunities. The bottom line is that he can't handle the germs in a normal school. The school simply can not make a "reasonable accomodation" and the kid needs to stay home, with a teacher who comes by for about ten hours a week. If he survives, the child will be stronger in a few years and will be able to attend regular school.

Unreasonable accomodations don't work. We also had a kid with a life-threatening peanut butter allergy. The teachers and administrators were willing to bend over backwards, and the other students seemed to get it, but the other parents were downright cruel. They couldn't "understand" why they should be so inconvenienced by one stupid kid with an annoying problem. Many of them actually cheered (including the PTA president) when the family moved out of town. You can't ask people like that to tolerate an Autistic kid. You know what they are going to do, you can't control them, and it's just too cruel to the child.

Some severely Autistic children simply can not tolerate a room full of 20 people,
no matter what accomodations they make or how nice people try to be. While very young, the setting itself is harmful. Forcing him to stay there will not make him "toughen up." It will cause harm. A few years later the same person will probably be stronger and better able to tolerate the crowds.

This is bewildering. How are you supposed to know what your goals are, when your inner voice is swamped every time you go near anyone, because of the noise they make?

And how are you supposed to get practical information on how to achieve your goals, when it's virtually impossible to get other people to understand you in the first place, and they keep wanting to reward you for going after their goals (a rip tide that is hard to fight).

And finding out what the steps are that everyone has to take is hard enough. (Sometimes you can find it in books. Sometimes. If you hunt around.) But then you have additional steps to take because of your disability, and no one has documented those. And all this is invisible to other people, who wonder why you don't just join in.

I had goals.
1. I wanted to survive childhood. Still here, sort of, and I have a lock on my door, now, too. Wooh! Success!
2. I want to survive welfare. I don't want to die like this. It's a slow crawl, with no information out there that can actually help me. I have to write the manual as I go along.

Right now I am trying to figure out how to explain to tribunals etc. how to accommodate my disability by allowing me to participate in writing - so I need to gather meager evidence that in fact conversation in real time is a serious problem for me.

Given that I have spent my entire life just trying to stay alive/not be killed, the whole "three personal, three professional, three educational goals" thing is a joke. It has always been a big joke. But try to get people to see that.

It's hard to succeed when you're invisible. If you're not, count your blessings.

It's such a relief to hear this.
Sometimes environmental and social factors can work against you and hamper you achieving your goals.
This was the case with me: I aimed high, but I fell flat on my face.

At school we were constantly told:
"You can do anything if you try hard enough."
"If you work hard at your exams you'll have your heart's desires."

I can safely say that I worked very hard at my exams, but have not yet attained my heart's desires.
I feel a little betrayed to tell the truth.
Perhaps these uplifting messages were propaganda to try and persuade some of the less enthusiastic students to actually "be bothered" and do the work.

We were told this during assemblies with charismatic, inspiring speeches and by a visiting traveling show.

The traveling show was quite entertaining.
It was performed by a boy and a girl.

One scene involved the girl saying to the boy:
"Do you really want to be putting the tops on milk bottles and licking stamps for the rest of your life?"

The boy had flunked his exams, but the girl was "Little Miss Perfect" and had a "plastic smile" to sell herself with.


The overconfidence and neurotic organisation skills of the girl were disturbing: I used to be just like her.
Now I'm more like the boy doing low skilled temp work and playing computer games late into the night.
You can probably guess what I'm temping in...

The show mentioned absolutely nothing about being overqualified, but being terrified of the interview, having severe difficulties with group social interaction and having emotional baggage left over from being heavily tested, messed about, labeled and judged.

Last edited by AmberEyes on 03 Mar 2009, 1:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Ah we had this too.

I even had a neat little careers and achievement folder.
It contained all the badges I'd received for my extra-curricular activities.

Personal learning planing (PLP).
We had to write down several goals for the future.
What we were good at and how we could improve.
I must say, it was the most futile exercise I've ever taken part in.
I tried my hardest became incredibly stressed, but I still haven't met all my goals.
Maybe I was a little too ambitious with some of my "predictions".
We wrote down obstacles too.
I neglected to mention "taking care of myself" or "has difficulty interacting with and following groups", "being misconstrued as rude" because I was oblivious to these issues and they were never mentioned.

We had career days and people come in to talk to us.
Which were quite useful.
However, the whole experience has made me feel guilty when I can't find anything productive to do.
The whole process did in places seem a little hyped up and over the top.

One I had a clear idea of what my career goals now.
Because of my socialising issues I'm having to have a serious rethink.

They neglected to mention that human life cannot always be fitted into a nice neat little folder.

When I took my nice little folder to a College interview, the interviewer said:
"Yeah yeah."

Looked at the front cover for one second then pushed it to one side.
She was actually far more interested in my grades than in my swimming badges or my outlandishly unrealistic career aspirations, which probably wasn't a bad thing actually.

Last edited by AmberEyes on 03 Mar 2009, 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.