Americans, please answer me about the recession...

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You're RIGHT, they NEVER do! They ALSO don't count the MILLIONS of jobs done by FOREIGNERS! Let's say it were 5,000,000 jobs, NOT an unreasonable possibility, and it COULD be higher! One little rule change "creates" an extra 5 MILLION jobs! With that one little thing, unemployment could drop by over 2%! !! !! ! So if it were 10% now, it could drop to less than 8%!



I'm sure they DO count them! If a business has 50,000 employees, and goes under, that is 50,000 more out of work.



That is the first group you listed



AGAIN, same as the first group



Right



The idea of gold as a haven really IS interesting. I mean it is basically only gold for things like:

1. Jewelry(As time passes, it becomes less and less used)
2. Electronics(Really only good for contacts, and it is used less and there are some similar items.)

You can't even really sell it unless it is in a broker's street name(they may go bankrupt), or is hallmarked.



You're right, and treasuries DO rely on the government.



One of the signs of recovery, is that the price of copper is going UP. Currencies REALLY have no ABSOLUTE value. It is relative to other currencies. After all, a dollar can never be worth more or less than a dollar. Inflation is different, because it is the TIME value of money. The dollar has a different value at different times.



Those buying DO have limited fear and limited means. As I said, there is limited need for the material. As for platinum, it can do almost everything gold can, is harder, and has a lot of areas where it is NEEDED,. THAT is why it is about 1134.00, as opposed to the 924 for gold. I still remember when I last REALLY followed this, and platinum was worth far more in comparison to gold. THAT is suspicious.

BTW, for the record, I DO have a couple gold stocks, that HAVE done well, but I currently don't have gold. I DO have a number of organizations that owe me money, a plan to ride things out for possibly 2-3 years, and foreign funds to ride things out for a longer period.

The price of gold and silver is right where it should be now that it is no longer artifically inflated as it was for about 20 years. It is and always has been the best money one can have during any times, even the good ones.
It is easy to use, easy to trade with and easy to sell if ones wants to do that.
Unemployemt figures are relative but I do think 'real unemployment' is far higher than reported but the 'official' rate is alwayas based upon the same relative data. I think we'll see 20% nationally by the time the new stimulus programs begin to kick in and I also think the new economic programs will only make things worse.

Gold is an inflation haven, we don't have that yet. The dollar is strong because Pounds, Euros, Yen, are falling faster. Oil became the new gold and those who jumped in lost.

A lot of the employed have been cut to 32 hours a week, over the whole labor force that can be more hours lost, 20%, than the 8% who are collecting unemployment.

Most sole propritors I know are still in business, and losing money, but they are working.

The differance I see is this time most assets were in 401Ks, managed by someone else, and it all went away fast. The same for home prices, past recessions the price declined, after the downturn, not before, causing the downturn.

Most people are not looking for safe parking of assets, they are gone, they are trying to figure out how to live on what is left, and the basics come first. Most of the world spends most of it's income on food.

Copper is going up because China is buying, they need it for the future, it stores well, and besides a Trillion in our bonds, they have $10 Trillion in paper money, which they are converting to industrial metals. They have been trying to buy all the Austrailian mines.

As long as the cycle is in decline, natural deflation, printing more money works, it funds government, makes bank numbers look better, but when the decline stops, the price of bread is in the new value, cost of production, and then inflation hits all at once.

The last real development was computers, which are now done, housing was a bubble from the start, it supported lumber, paint, roofing, plumbing, labor, banks, but there is a natural limit to building more and larger. We have a lot of years of surplus before us even at much lower prices. Housing also takes upkeep, ongoing expense, which is being ignored. It cannot be exported.

There is nothing to stop the decline. It will be like New Orleans, you can buy a house for $10,000 but it is in a neighborhood in ruins. It needs a lot of work, cash only, has high local tax and utilities, few jobs, and it is number one in murder.

Declining markets still are, so stocks will not only go lower, they will stay there.

Turning dollars to dimes works for government, for a while, works for banks that would have to write off the losses anyway, but is not much of a foundation to build the next bubble on.

One, real wealth has been lost, there is not the Capital to start a recovery, and Two, what can become the next bubble?

Our economy is a trail of failed Ponzis. Houses, Stocks, Dot.com, Energy, looting the savings and loans to build strip malls, office buildings, casinos, none of which could have lasted long term.

We move from bubble to bubble and now the War Baby retirement is being looted.

There is nothing left to loot, and nothing to build the next bubble on.

To save the people, nationalizing all residential mortgages, resetting them at 50% with 3% interest, would save the working homeowners, but wipe out financials, which those same homeowners are invested in.

Not doing it is bleeding the best workers, and bill and tax payers, to pay for the bad loans and defaults.

Putting it all on them stops any recovery.

When commercial propery defaults, coming soon to your neighborhood, cities fail, tax income drops, and the banks fall. City, County, State, are bad businesses to be in.

Taking a long view, we need to close some towns. we have too many States, local governments, they burden the people. We need regional planning, water, sewer, transport, education, an economy.

What we need are Corporations. Our main problem is those can can get elected are mostly not fit for the job, which is not clearly defined.

Citizens/Stock holders, elect Directors, the current system, where Directors run wild and control the investigation of themselves, Directors hire professional manament to run the system, and pay them based on long term performance. That is backed by outside Audits, and Law Enforcement.

Anyone taking a "political donation" in the entire system, is taken out and shot, along side the person giving the "donation.". Anyone taking a donation from outside the area is shot twice.

With eight to ten regional economies, it will not all fall at once.

Government employees lose the right to vote. Under the current system they make up more than a third of the vote, so with their families, and donaters, are self electing, and control all the records, and are in charge of investigating themselves.

Government employees must have the same Social Security, health care, as the Citizen, so we have a common interest in keeping it.

The National Government will provide National defense, sound money, regulate markets, and go to cocktail parties with their European equals. All taxes will be paid to the Regional States and they will support the National level.

We just need more checks and balences in the system, the current one has failed due to a lack of oversight.

One and a half months later...any changes? What's new in the US Economy?

All I know is our business practically stopped, and I was laid off a couple weeks ago. They're hiring people for half the money, those who were laid off from the other companies.

My 2 cents....dire as ever.

The bubble burst that caused the crash in 2008 is the first of 3 bubbles that will burst. The last is not expected to be over until 2011.

Of course, the media wants to talk about anything other than the economy. Lots of bold promises, bailouts, money flowing about like it was water, but it's all going into the hands of the uber wealthy and often going out of the country.

Last I checked, good jobs are gone, few good ones open up. People are hoping to be reduced in hours rather than laid off entirely.

No bread and soup lines....yet, but in my corner, we tend to weather depressions better because prosperity don't come as strong either.

I live in the United states in the state of Rhode Island. here the recession is so bad, that cities and towns are cutting jobs left and right. What is really puzzling is that they are closing public schools in some towns, while in other towns they are laying off police officers and other public safety people. Some towns they have to make a sacrifice of either to lay off teachers,(so the schools have less teachers and crowded classrooms) or to lay of any public safety employees(like cops, firefighters, etc, so the public and the street would be more chaotic). It is a very sad situation. The sad thing is the Governor here is a conservative republican and he is compared to Bush on the state level. I hope he does not run for president because we would be all screwed. I am on social security and receive both medicare and state assistance for my health care. Medicare pays for half and what ever medicare does not pay for, usually state assistance steps in. But because of the economy, I am not able to receive my health care because the governor cut a lot of things and the state assistance is no longer paying for most of the medical I need. The medications, are now generic, I have a hard time finding a doctor who would take my medical for any health problem(I have a ton), and they would take Medicare, but Medicare only pays half and the other half(usually $200-$2000), I would have to pay out of pocket. I can not afford that since I only get $600 a moth total and since I live in an agency sponsored residence, my rent is everything I get, which means I only get a $50 allowance a month, which need just to cover things that the group home does not pay for. The agency is not willing to help me pay for these health care needs because I was told that they too are not able to afford to help out the clients with their needs. The state itself is crumbling and we have a 10.5% unemployment rate in the state of Rhode Island and it is only getting higher. I live around the city that is rated, according to Yahoo.com, as the number 1 most hardest city to live in, which is Providence, Rhode Island.
We are the smallest state in the country and yet we are an embarrassment, not just because of the economy itself, but because of the way our governor is handling it. It is sad that it took the economy to bring out his true colors(and I wish it did back in 2006, because that is when he got re-elected. He was first elected in 2002). This economy is not only a struggle for everyone on the financial level, but for all of us who have special health needs, like I, it is just a living nightmare. Having to choose to have hygiene products or our medications and/or health care supplies.
And as for those thugs at the banks, they took that money and gave themselves big bonuses, instead of helping us out. It was our money too. How typical, rich people taking poor people's money and instead of help us, they get richer. Sound like Robin Hood. The sad thing is that Bush allowed it. I hope Obama gives those banks hell and makes them pay every red cent back, and maybe we can get another "stimulus" check out of it. Just wishing and hoping.

Believe it or not, one guy predicted, the middle of last year, that it would START to clear up by NEXT MONTH(6/2009). SURPRISINGLY, it looks like he was RIGHT! READ ON though!

Of course, the US government is run by a bunch of IDIOTS! That SAME person, Jim Cramer, called them idiots LONG ago. Even BEFORE that, I said that Greenspan's stupidity would bring ruin! I PREDICTED this! When rates hit the lowest that they could EVER go, because a lower rate would make NO sense, and rants got SO high, I got a mortgage. For a while, it looked like MAYBE there would be a recovery. Well, they started lowering the rate AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN! By some reports, it is now as low as ZERO %! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! (This is controlled basically by an idiot known as the fed chairman. The CURRENT one is bernanke. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Bernanke HE controls the value of the dollar. They have, quite literally, painted themselves into a corner! The rate HAS to be raised to bring value back, but CAN'T be raised because credit could dry up and rates could go up. Greenspan used that to create the crash of 1999! He actually SAID he did it to bring the market down!)

When Greenspan caused the crash, the economy was a WRECK! Bankruptcies increased, and companys downsized. He THEN lowered the rate, and it has gone down almost every time since. The idea of "the FED" is STUPID! They will lower the dollar to increase exports and help business grow, and then raise it to DECREASE exports and bring the market down. The US fed conspires with a group known as the G7, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G7 It is basically a type of price fixing. It is interesting to note that, if it were done one level higher, it would be a FELONY in the US.

Credit lines, and credit scrores, have DROPPED! Rates have SKYROCKETED! non credit card lines are drying up. Companies are downsizing.

I probably represent one of the LEAST affected non millionares in the US. How has it affected me?

1. Credit lines have been reduced.
2. Credit scores dropped(though I have managed to counter most things and have them actually go up).
3. Credit card rates have gone UP! Nobody will lower them.
4. I moved out of stocks because WORLD LEADERS are now has beens due to downsizing.
5. I have fewer choices on flights because they have cut back!
6. They have threatened to reduce my salary.
7. I don't DARE pay off various credit lines, because they might be closed!


So, have I confused you? Oh yeah, about the part that is getting better. Home premiums are DROPPING! So some places see LITTLE decline. OTHERS, like california and Washington DC, have seen them drop a LOT! Still, THAT, coupled with lower interest rates and, perhaps, various STUPID allowances and forgiven debts, has helped real estate, at least for the short term.

The banks were given money to make loans, instead they raised rates and cut credit, even though they get money at 0%.

After they got trillions, Citi was $1, it went to $4, in a few weeks, who was buying? Citi, with our money.

In the last six weeks the market has gone up 37% which would be good for three good years.

In the same time we lost another million jobs.

Now the bank stress test says the banks need $50 Billion, yet the IMF says Trillions.

Someone is lying, and they all worked at Goldman. Treasury, Fed, AIG, all Goldman.

Now for car companies, billions to bail out a privately held company, to sell it to Fiat, who will not have to repay the loans.

More for GM, who will bankrupt, and hence not pay back. They said a million jobs, but we are losing that every six weeks, for free.

The only answer is Greentea has to come up with $12 Trillion cash and buy US Bonds, at 2.8% return.

It is the only way we can afford to keep this recession going. We have spent everything, and the future, but still need a Trillion a month to maintain our Super Power Bubble, and everyone knows that the Americans are the most important people on Earth.

Pay no attention to those billion person economies growing at 10% in China and India, only America cares about Human Rights. Every day we go to other people's countries and kill them over human rights, and it is not cheap.

Our friends in the world must understand that Freedom takes Occupation troops, and constant air strikes.

So Buy Bonds, and support Freedom, one crater at a time.

America, One Nation, second only to God.

Coming soon to your country, for only Greater America can bring peace to the world through occupation.

We all know how depressions have to end, how to restore full time production, how to unite the people, and provide full employment.

For the first time in years we have made our enlistment quotas, fresh troops for the eastern front.

Manifest Destiny awaits us!

please read my siganture

i find the hardest part in any ecomomy is just getting started, whatever that maybe. getting a place, finding a job, whatever. it is smooth after that i think with ups and downs but most people overcome them. i think i could overcome all my problems in the next 5 years and go back to work

Since the price of gasoline is now over two dollars per gallon where I live, (it was around $1.70 a few months ago, before that, energy stocks lost significant value) the economy must be improving.

The experts tell us there's been a whole lot of promising news lately.

Unemployment is still climbing rapidly, but last month it didn't climb quite as rapidly as it did the month before.

Housing prices are still falling, but last month they didn't fall quite as fast, but only for the lowest priced houses.

This is what the financial people call a "dead cat bounce" based on how it looks on a chart. If you drop a dead cat from a high enough place and it falls far enough, it will bounce a little bit when it hits something before it starts falling again.

I just found out today that the I-don't-know-how-many-trillion-dollar "stimulus" package they just passed has next to nothing to help small business. In the US economy, small business provides something like 85 percent of the jobs, so I'm not absolutely certain it's going to do a lot of good.

It is unemployment claims. It is not NEARLY as good as many would make you believe. MANY people lose jobs and can't, or don't, get unemployment. Those that have it eventually fall off.

Housing prices are only falling in SOME places, and they are mostly just succumbing to reason. MY home, for example, is actually worth MORE than I bought it for. I refinanced, pulled cash out, and STILL reduced my debt.

The traditional "dead cat bounce" happened EARLIER! Granted, the IDIOTS in government, etc... are making it hard to see reality, but I think the panic and OLD value decrease is DONE! It hit bottom, and is CLIMBING! Of course, short sellers may come back, the government could make a wrong move, etc.... and it could go down. Companies could do STUPID things, like GM recently when it basically threw almost all their value down the toilet, or alcoa that sold off 3/4 of the company, etc... and the cycle can start OVER.

The "stimulus package" is basically just a way for Obama to pay his contributors, etc... and try to CLAIM to be doing something. One freeway here that was NOT bad, and is now NO better suddenly has a sign saying it is being supported by the "American Recovery and Reinvestment Act"! !! !! !! !

That's IMPOSSIBLE! There was NO indication of ANY attempt to repair it, etc.... for the paast few years. I go down it EVERY DAY! YET it says it is being supported by an act started in 2009!! !! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_R ... ct_of_2009

So WHAT HAPPENED? One word! EMBEZZLEMENT! BTW ALL republicans voted AGAINST this act! Almost every democrat voted FOR the act! NOBODY ELSE voted for the act! As for this freeway? OBVIOUSLY, someone here wanted money, and used that as an EXCUSE! A PRETENSE! The REAL goal was simply to line someone's pockets. BTW, they will TRY to tell the average American that it is only a few thousand dollars that they have to pay! That is a LIE! Figure that SO many are under or unemployed, and it could be DOZENS of thousands for someone like me! Figure in OTHER costs, and it could be DOZENS of thousands MORE! Since that is more than I could ever pay, you might as well add hundreds of thousands in interest! Since I can't pay that, my kids will have to. Since I don't have kids, OTHER kids will have to. THEY can't pay it, so THEIR kids will have to. In short, this money will NEVER be paid back! And they made such a big deal about MADOFF!?!?!?!? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Madoff He was a NOVICE! BTW most of Madoffs customers, in fact, almost 100%, BROKE THE LAW! They violated fiduciary duty, and basically skirted by SEC rules. But DON'T WORRY!! !! ! Many of them are being paid back by the tarp scandel, and similar vehicles!

madoff, made off. get it?

The dead cat reached the top, now unemployment at 8.9%, foreclosurers up 32%, layoffs going up again, and sales down.

Bear market rallies make up for the slowing of the way down.

Re reading last November, the shocking news from the doom sayers was 8% unemployment in 2009. Now 10% is considered rose colored glasses, and government wishes.

The Dow had fallen to 8300, a disaster, and now the top of the cat bounce, called great.

They also called the decline in GNP at 3% for the third quarter, and 1.2% in the first, with recovery coming in April or May. Real decline was over 6% in both quarters, and only fools and government employees still see recovery in two more quarters.

May marks the longest downturn since the Great Depression.

With foreclosurers rising, not much hope for a housing bottom soon. Job losses going up, more to come as autos close dealers, GM goes bankrupt, and that drops metals, plastics, paints, trucking, and consumer spending.

States cannot just print money, the Fed is broke, and unemployment does not last. Millions are reaching the end of benefits.

This summer should be fun.

Communism FTW!! ahaha. lol sorry but i can't help but find this recession exciting.