proud aspies really anger me

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I smell personall attack. Didnt you read Namiko's reminder?

Well if i was living in poverty and the other people around me that are living in poverty were telling me they are rich or are proud of their squalor i would question it yes. This might hurt in the short term but it's better we face reality and then we are more likely to grow instead of living in a fantasy world with a protective bubble round us. How can anyone grow as a person if they dont know what they are growing from?

I never did tell anyone they are ret*d IRL (no-one with disabilities that is) but then they didnt hit out with any of the "Gifted" or "cultural" s**t im seeing here.

I believe all except the last 3 apply here... Well unless we have some Horses, Lions or Acrobats...Oh my.

I believe this is the primary one most Prideful Aspies have:
1. A sense of one's own proper dignity or value; self-respect.


I can't help put see similarities between the X-Men story and AS; they are groups of "mutants/Aspies" who feel pride in themselves, but also respect others, Aspie or not, but they also don't wish a cure...
Then there are those that have pride in themselves to the point of arrogance, and feel that they are superior to all others. And obviously don't want a cure...
Others are the ones that feel that they've been dealt a bad hand and want a cure, they want to be like the "non-mutants/non-Aspies" and not have to worry about the issues and problems.
The "humans/non-Aspies" vary in their groups as well...Those that wish a cure, those that don't, those that fear...

I've met some arrogant Aspies on the net...And I fear that some of them will band together and try some uprising or something...Highly unlikely, but a fear nonetheless... This still doesn't make me want to be non-Aspie, I am who I am.

GA

I see no personal attack? I expressed my opinion that people that do what you described, disgust me.

People should form their own view of reality (there is no one reality...it's all perception) and not have others' realities forced upon them. You can express you opinion of their view of reality, but not to the extent where it damages it...
Like I said... Everything is Perception, what you perceived as squalor or "ret*d" might be someone else's palatial or "gifted"... You've really no right to refuse them their perceptions...

:: shrugs ::

I dont see why anyone needs to be proud or feel sorry for themselves. I just admit my disorder (thats what it is even though there are some positives) and work around it. Dwelling on things doesnt help but neither does lying to yourself because when you stumble upon that truth it will bite you even harder if you havent prepared yoursef with it beforehand.

Cade wrote,

Life is competitive ennough. Someone who plays the victim is keeping themselves down. Making it easier for everybody else, since now they don't have to bother doing it for you.



Not everybody, not for me. But people that are like me, who have AS, they upset me. I feel that it reflects on me, when they complain about a trait we both share.
"if your not going to say something nice, then don't say anything."
and don't speak for me. If your bitter, keep it to yourself, NOBODY CARES!
Are we all supposed to act the victim and show contempt for our situations. Would that make you feel better if everybody was as miserable as you.

TO THE AUTHOR OF THIS THREAD;
your arguments are riddled with double standards, and encourage non-productive aims.
I SOUNDLY REJECT EACH CLAIM YOU MAKE.



I would say that i pity him. might as well give the people what they are begging for.

I do wonder, what was your purpose in writing this thread. You offered no solutions.
All you did was come on an AS Community website and tell us we have nothing to be proud of.

If you got really drunk and started to reflect and began to feel pity for your lot in life, that is acceptable and reasonable.
i will give you the benefit of the doubt, were you drunk at the time?

Since i know you will get off with it, i will not personally attack you back. People like you make me want to literally throw up. I smell arrogance and self-obsessiveness. ::Laughs::

EG

Anyway, it's not that I'm proud to be AS ~ I'm proud to be me and a huge part of who I am is down to me having an AS type brain. What's wrong with that? ~ absolutely nothing!

That quote is just for people that have lost an argument so doesnt leave any point in addressing the rest of the post. If someone attacks you to hit him isnt nice. Do you just lie down to them? If my right arm got infected tommorow the doctor would have to talk about cutting it off and then a surgeon would go through with the operation. Not nice but reality.

You are right.
If someone hits you, you hit back.

Read my reply in its entirety. The subtle nuance was the double standard and non productivity.

There is nothing productive about my quote
I did hit back
isn't it ironic?

I cant be sure that this is aspietoons intention (he might be pittying himself and angry that other people arent for all i know) but i think admitting the hard facts of this condition did help me move on.

It hurted like hell at the time and i wouldnt reccomend taking it on if you are at one of your lowest points in life but taking onboard all my problems and adapting to them has helped me move on enormously. I was crueler in the short term but in the long-term it has made me easier on myself that i have a disorder and it wasnt something inherelently and uniquely wrong about me.

Of course if someone else sees things differently that is uop to them but people shouldnt say their opinions atall if they cant handle other peoples opinions. Unless you think we should have a uniform opinion on everything and we should all just gather round here to repeat the golen rules and policy? I know you dont think that so why are you trying to quash toonaspie from speaking his mind?

CRACK, when they talk about "cure" they're talking about preventing the child from ever developing Autism. However they plan to do that.

I suspect they would just abort the fetus. At least, that's the plan so I've heard and the "Autism Test" should be out they say within the next 2 to 5 years.

As for manipulating the DNA, who knows how long that'll take to become available. But that's assuming genetics determines everything. And for Autism, it doesn't. Identical twins studies generally show only about a 50% occurance rate between monozygotic twins. Meaning genetics ain't everything.

So with Plan 1 (abortion) if fetuses are aborted, potentially not all of those are going to be autistic.



I don't think anyone's been trying to quash anything. toonaspie cannot speak for anyone but herself. You don't want to quash all the prideful Aspie opinions out their either do you?

In short, toonaspie's post put others who don't feel the same way on the defensive. Not because of what it said because other people with similar views have stated their opinion and nobody's gotten angry or defensive. It was the way in which is was said.

This is all a reaction to an accusation.

Last edited by Sophist on 07 Jan 2006, 2:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

One of the prevalent themes of the science fiction of 1946-1964 was that of "Our hero (very, VERY rarely our heroine!) is different and is persecuted for it in various ways ranging from people not wanting to sit next to him on a bus (Simak's "Ring Around the Sun") to death threats against little kids (Shiras' "Children of the Atom"). Thereby hung a thusand plot threads, but the theme, by and large, was "To thine own self be true," often followed with a rather dangerous dose of "After all, you ARE Homo Superior!" Luckily, Robert Heinlein dominated the genre at this time, and *his* view of Homo Superior was that only demonstrated competence counted; most of his heroes were ordinary people who rose to the occasion.

(For a more realistic take on this, check out the character of Jimmy Poole in Michael Flynn's Firestar series - the poor sucker thinks he might be a telepath because occasionally he has a flash of understanding of what people are thinking and why! It's a fairly recent series and not at all bad.)

At any rate, during my high school years I was mulling over the question and decided "There is such a thing as Normal. I'm not it. Should I try to be?" And while the payoff for the latter was as intriguing as the payoff for a fat person eating a gallon of ice cream, half a lifetime of reading the sort of stories described above came down very firmly on the side of "No. There is something I'm meant to be and do."

Just my $0.02, and with gratitude for finding ONE upside to being different and female in the '50s!

True, but science is evolving all the time and it might be possible to provide a "cure" not too far into the future though not the near future due to the complications that you have elaborated on.


I agree toonaspie could have put it more diplomatically but she was just giving her opinion and some people seem to have crossed the boundary into a personal attack. My response was to SB2 though as he did try to quash the aforementioned opinion by telling toonaspie to keep her opinion to herself and it's not constructive.

No-one here can know if an opinion is constructive or right. Arguing your opinion forcefully is one thing telling someone thay have no right to theirs is another.

Last edited by eamonn on 07 Jan 2006, 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I'm not proud of having ADD. I'm not proud of suffering from depression most of my life. And I won't be proud if I find out I have AS as well. I am proud of surviving and even thriving because of or in spite of these conditions. And I am learning to accept them and not let them dominate my life or interfere with my happiness.

This argument that "aspies shouldn't be proud" is, to me, tantamount to saying "gays should be in the closet or 'cured' because heterosexuals--who are in the majority--find them repulsive or annoying." Like it or lump it, society has had to adapt to the presence of homosexuals. They're here, they're queer, get used to it and we can all live happily ever after.

So it's time societies did more to adapt to the presence of neurologically atypical individuals, if for no other reason than the sheer number of NA's and the innovations in all fields of life that we bring to the table. We're here, we're "queer" in the head. Get used to it, and let's all live happily ever after and work together to go into space and get the f*** out of here! Like the great Russian scientist Tsilokovski said (he was the first to propose building space stations--in the 1920s): the earth is the cradle of humankind, but one cannot live in the cradle forever.

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"Perhaps I was on the wrong planet born?" Albert Einstein {sic} from Robert Anton Wilson's
novel Masks of the Illuminati
"We're on the third mall from the sun."--Bill Hicks

There was no point.

he didn't offer valid reasoning.

it appeared that his only point was to drag others down with him.

There is a difference between a victim and a person who plays the role of Martyr.

A victim has things thrust upon them after they have had an established position, and are forced to rebuild that aspect of their life.

a MARTYR complains about things which are not changeable (like a disorder that you were born with) and want's to feel sorry for themselves and have others act the same way or offer them pity.

It goes against my very nature to enable someone, he got lucky, i offered him my pity, but rejected everything he stated. I also, have AS, and i don't need that crap, running around in my brain, dragging me down too.

Also, i piss him off by showing my pride. He is obligated to listen to me about his actions that piss me off. At least i gave examples for my position.

He wants a cure, do it for the children, what a sympathy evoking phrase. After all, who could deny a plea on behalf of children? It was Bullsit tactic and i am tired of people hiding behind children.
You wan't a cure do something, complaing isn't going to accomplish anything. All you will do is spin yopur wheels and piss me off (i smell a troll, too.)
There was no backing to his statement, except lazy inaction.

And Finally, he called me selfish for showing pride. Just like every other piece of feaux reasoning in his post, it is crap.
He is the selfish one for wallowing in self pity and and taking positive steps for negative results. Dragging others down with him sounds selfish enough.
If he was feeling a little blue about his lot in life and wanted a rational discussion or sympathy, THE HAVEN would have been a more suitable venue.
By submitting this in a public arena, like General Discussion, he begged this response.
He effectively yelled fire in a crowded theatre.

eamonn, you want to paint a picture of a villian here, by all means feel free.
But take my post in its entirety and argue from that. Picking random parts and spinning them to paint a picture of an evil meany, is also bull s**t tactic. I do not appreciate it.
I do not have a problem with discussing fallacies in my position, jost so long as you argue the position as it stands, not selective parts, taken alone cannot stand up to scrutiny. You could villify the best laid rational thought, if you were selective.

I also gave him an out. He could easily say i was drunk, i was low, and it is what it is. I would understand the reason for it, then.

I am proud of being an aspie.

Being an aspie means you have the ability to focus on things you are passionate about, and you have heightened intelligence.

I am proud of that. I look at that as a gift. I think that is another admirable part of me.

If you think that really angers you, then, to each your own.