Educational magazine article about autistic and Aspie girls
27 Apr 2009, 3:07 am
At one time I was a work colleague with a diagnosed Aspie woman in her early twenties. She is extraverted and has a partner. I would not have known that she is an Aspie unless my manager had told me. Her special interest is the Sabrina the Witch books. Until I met her I thought that all autistic/Aspie women were shy and withdrawn.
This article Asperger's Syndrome in Women: A Different Set of Challenges? By Catherine Faherty- http://www.autismtoday.com/articles/Asp ... _Women.htm - was published in the July-August 2002 issue of the Autism Asperger's Digest.
Faherty asks if diagnosticians rule out an autism/Asperger diagnosis in girls because of certain gender-related behaviour.
Quote:
There seem to be many girls (on the spectrum) who are enamored with princesses, fantasy kingdoms, unicorns and animals. How many diagnosticians observe these interests and skills as imagination, and rule out a diagnosis based on these behaviors? Might this intererest in imaginary kingdoms and talking animals be more common among girls than boys, yet still exist alongside other autistic/AS traits?
And what about one typical response to confusion or frustration - hitting or other such outward expressions of frustrations? Does this type of acting out occur more often in boys with autism than in girls? Is confusion or frustration simply easier to identify in boys than girls because we already look for it.
And what about one typical response to confusion or frustration - hitting or other such outward expressions of frustrations? Does this type of acting out occur more often in boys with autism than in girls? Is confusion or frustration simply easier to identify in boys than girls because we already look for it.
Autistic women are affected not only by autism but by assumptions which society places on the female gender.
Quote:
At the risk of stereotyping, any man who is a rational thinker, and not emotionally in tune with others, is often thought of as having "typical male behavior" [...]. A woman exhibiting these same behavior personality traits might be regarded as odd, annoying, cold, or depending on the situation, even mean-spirited. Autism, with its particular effects on personality, causes one to appear more rational and less emotionally responsive to others. Women with autism note that these expectations indeed may weigh more heavily on them, just because they are women.
Women with autism have expessed that they feel that more is expected from them than from their male counterparts, simply because of their gender.
Women with autism have expessed that they feel that more is expected from them than from their male counterparts, simply because of their gender.
27 Apr 2009, 3:15 am
Woodpeace wrote:
Quote:
At the risk of stereotyping, any man who is a rational thinker, and not emotionally in tune with others, is often thought of as having "typical male behavior" [...]. A woman exhibiting these same behavior personality traits might be regarded as odd, annoying, cold, or depending on the situation, even mean-spirited. Autism, with its particular effects on personality, causes one to appear more rational and less emotionally responsive to others. Women with autism note that these expectations indeed may weigh more heavily on them, just because they are women.
Women with autism have expessed that they feel that more is expected from them than from their male counterparts, simply because of their gender.
Women with autism have expessed that they feel that more is expected from them than from their male counterparts, simply because of their gender.
Absolutely. I always got in trouble for things that would not have been an issue if I was a male. If I was a boy at school my behaviour would have been seen as "matter of fact" or "truthful" but because I was a girl I was seen as a troublemaker. They thought that no girl could be so naive as to say the sort of things I said.
27 Apr 2009, 3:46 am
zen_mistress wrote:
Woodpeace wrote:
Quote:
At the risk of stereotyping, any man who is a rational thinker, and not emotionally in tune with others, is often thought of as having "typical male behavior" [...]. A woman exhibiting these same behavior personality traits might be regarded as odd, annoying, cold, or depending on the situation, even mean-spirited. Autism, with its particular effects on personality, causes one to appear more rational and less emotionally responsive to others. Women with autism note that these expectations indeed may weigh more heavily on them, just because they are women.
Women with autism have expessed that they feel that more is expected from them than from their male counterparts, simply because of their gender.
Women with autism have expessed that they feel that more is expected from them than from their male counterparts, simply because of their gender.
Absolutely. I always got in trouble for things that would not have been an issue if I was a male. If I was a boy at school my behaviour would have been seen as "matter of fact" or "truthful" but because I was a girl I was seen as a troublemaker. They thought that no girl could be so naive as to say the sort of things I said.
Wow, Good Points.
Illuminating to catch a glimpse from a differing perspective...!
.
_________________
Good-Luck All-! 28.04.2009
27 Apr 2009, 5:32 am
Quote:
zen_mistress wrote:
Woodpeace wrote:
Quote:
At the risk of stereotyping, any man who is a rational thinker, and not emotionally in tune with others, is often thought of as having "typical male behavior" [...]. A woman exhibiting these same behavior personality traits might be regarded as odd, annoying, cold, or depending on the situation, even mean-spirited. Autism, with its particular effects on personality, causes one to appear more rational and less emotionally responsive to others. Women with autism note that these expectations indeed may weigh more heavily on them, just because they are women.
Women with autism have expessed that they feel that more is expected from them than from their male counterparts, simply because of their gender.
Women with autism have expessed that they feel that more is expected from them than from their male counterparts, simply because of their gender.
Absolutely. I always got in trouble for things that would not have been an issue if I was a male. If I was a boy at school my behaviour would have been seen as "matter of fact" or "truthful" but because I was a girl I was seen as a troublemaker. They thought that no girl could be so naive as to say the sort of things I said.
ditto.
27 Apr 2009, 5:51 am
millie wrote:
Quote:
zen_mistress wrote:
Woodpeace wrote:
Quote:
At the risk of stereotyping, any man who is a rational thinker, and not emotionally in tune with others, is often thought of as having "typical male behavior" [...]. A woman exhibiting these same behavior personality traits might be regarded as odd, annoying, cold, or depending on the situation, even mean-spirited. Autism, with its particular effects on personality, causes one to appear more rational and less emotionally responsive to others. Women with autism note that these expectations indeed may weigh more heavily on them, just because they are women.
Women with autism have expessed that they feel that more is expected from them than from their male counterparts, simply because of their gender.
Women with autism have expessed that they feel that more is expected from them than from their male counterparts, simply because of their gender.
Absolutely. I always got in trouble for things that would not have been an issue if I was a male. If I was a boy at school my behaviour would have been seen as "matter of fact" or "truthful" but because I was a girl I was seen as a troublemaker. They thought that no girl could be so naive as to say the sort of things I said.
ditto.
WOW, I always saw the world as being more against differences in MALE behaviour! I don't like sports, am not good with sports, am not aggressive, don't fight everyone, etc.... BTW BOYS can be considered troublemakers ALSO! FORGET the statement "boys will be boys"! It is used to cover ignorance, responsibility, negligence, or downright evil. It RARELY means that the average boy can do any such things freely.
And, especially today, females have many of the benefits they always had, and fewer of the problems. BTW MEN are expected to be emotionally in tune with others as well. HECK, women even expect them to be in tune with women. That doesn't happen that much.
Oh well, the expectations of women ARE vanishing even as they are increasing with men.
27 Apr 2009, 11:17 am
millie wrote:
Quote:
sunshower wrote:
Hmm I think the generalization that all aspie girls are "shy" is an interesting one, because according to my experiences it's false. I have happened to meet quite a few aspie girls in my life, and they seem to come mostly under two general categories;
The generalized "shy" type
The loud-mouth self assertive type. This type never seems to be mentioned, and yet (alongside myself) I have met not one, but possibly two, other aspie girls I would categorize under this type. I would like to see more research done into aspie girls like this - because we come with our own set of problems and differences, and frankly, I can't relate at all to the current aspie girl construct of a shy girl who imitates the expressions of other groups of girls to fit in. I have never fit in or managed to blend in with a group of girls, and tend to stand out like a sore thumb. I certainly rarely if ever manage to blend in with the crowd.
The generalized "shy" type
The loud-mouth self assertive type. This type never seems to be mentioned, and yet (alongside myself) I have met not one, but possibly two, other aspie girls I would categorize under this type. I would like to see more research done into aspie girls like this - because we come with our own set of problems and differences, and frankly, I can't relate at all to the current aspie girl construct of a shy girl who imitates the expressions of other groups of girls to fit in. I have never fit in or managed to blend in with a group of girls, and tend to stand out like a sore thumb. I certainly rarely if ever manage to blend in with the crowd.
I am glad the article exists, as females with AS have not had the same recognition or resources as boys.
Like Sunshower, I can be a loud and assertive autistic (dx'ed AS) woman. I can also be very quiet. I have and continue to use a lot of social mimicry to get by - and the best solution is really to just hang in my studio and paint all the time.
As Sunshower says, the loud and brash female aspie - who suffers from perpetual foot in mouth disease - thus making enemies wherever she goes - is little discussed. There is the stereotypical view of the female aspie in the corner with glasses who is withdrawn and scared.
I have never fit into any group - anywhere. Not even on WP. Nowhere. I am a perpetual loner. I am even a loner in my family household. I am always like that.
For me, It takes a lot of effort and conscious thought to maintain a two-way conversation where i talk, then pause and listen, then acknowledge what the other has says and then speak again. I have to work SO HARD at doing that. I have learned to do itin short bursts - but my goodness it is one of the most exhausting things i can do. invariably i come home from any social exchanges needing to spend a day in bed -with migraines and vomiting and complete quiet. That is my life.
So in my career field, I have been ostracised by other artists because of these "social eccentricities." I am very unsure of myself in many ways, because of my autism, and yet my brashness can be misaken for ego, arrogance,and over-assuredness --none of which are really present in me in great doses. I am verbose and talkative because i do not know how to intuit two way conversation. I am also ADHD, so i can have a big energy. I am also reclusive because i find negotiating with the social world so extraordinarily complex and difficult.
I understand Zukenekerl's points raised in his post above. BUt I also think he fails to understand that most of the research and most of the coverage in the media about AS/autism focuses on males. When i rang around to look for a diagnosis a year or so ago, i spoke with a generic psychologist who told me i could not possibly have AS because WOMEN DO NOT GET IT!
THen i eventually saw and Autism specialist who diagnosed me throroughly and is still my psych, and who on our first meeting said to me "I am very sorry that you are 46 and it has taken you this long to get an answer." I have had a very hard life.
I think that exemplifies the point that more education regarding women and AS and autism needs to be pursued with information disseminated via the media in the form of articles such as the one the OP posted.
As for the article - i don't agree with all its content. But the following is a short bio of a female autistic's life.
1962 - born
primary school - whizz kid and loner. one friend at a time. terrfied of other people if not members of my family. strange rituals, special interests included marbles, wine label collecting, stamp collecting, rugby league (western Suburbs under coach Roy Masters brilliant guidance), World Book Ecyclopaedias, patterns, and ALWAYS ART and painting and artists.
high school - whizz kid going wrong. one friend at a time. one friend at a time supllanted by better friend known as DRUGS and ALCOHOL. dux of year 11 and 12, top 5% of state in HSC, anorectic and bulimic, drug fiend, acid head, people continue to exist as a backdrop to my internal world and life. ritualised and routined behaviour.
leave school - uni - top some subjects, but drop out. try uni again - -excellent grades but drop out. Psychiatric unit, bulimia dn anorexia, then back to drugs again.
twenties - big time back to drugs and alcohol. hate people and hate life and cannot make sense of the world. still pursue speacial interest paiting. but drugs take over.
nice time with homelessness. delightful stay in prison - and police cells frequently - great stuff for an autistic woman.
drugs used to self-medicate autism and dull sensory issues.
streetworker...
bashings, nasty things, more nasty things, more and more nasty things. lots and lots of nasty things happening. life is one big and vicious NASTY THING for many years. murders. very scary. life very bad. lucky to survive it.
in and out of rehabs - nobody picks up on autism/AS even though i am socially abbrasive and inept.
1998 last rehab, get clean, stay clean, live quiet and solitary life and ALL energy goes into special interest which eventually becomes career.
2008 - nephew dx'ed with autism. Find out more about autism. Mother gives feedback about my early life. siblings start telling me about how weird i was. GO to an autism specialist and get dx.
2009 - still a loner, still reclusive, still painting, still do not fit anywhere, but at least not asking myself every day "what the f**k is wrong with me...why do I not get people? why can't i relate like other people? why am i so weird? why do people not like me? what do i do that puts people off? what am i not understanding? shall i just kill myself now? "
ANd for what it is worth...my story is not unlike a fair number of other women here on WP and other places diagonosed with ASD's - who have emailed or pm'ed me privately and said they have lived a similar life but have not been ready or wanting to disclose the details to others. (i have no sense of privacy in the normal way because of my autism, so i have no understanding of witholding info about my life. no edit button.)
It is also similar to a lot of men with ASD's who have contacted me and said they also have had a life like mine...espeically those who did not have the benefit of early diagnoses as happens these days.
thanks for sharing your life experiences. I'm glad you finally found the answer.
27 Apr 2009, 4:00 pm
2ukenkerl wrote:
millie wrote:
Quote:
zen_mistress wrote:
Woodpeace wrote:
Quote:
At the risk of stereotyping, any man who is a rational thinker, and not emotionally in tune with others, is often thought of as having "typical male behavior" [...]. A woman exhibiting these same behavior personality traits might be regarded as odd, annoying, cold, or depending on the situation, even mean-spirited. Autism, with its particular effects on personality, causes one to appear more rational and less emotionally responsive to others. Women with autism note that these expectations indeed may weigh more heavily on them, just because they are women.
Women with autism have expessed that they feel that more is expected from them than from their male counterparts, simply because of their gender.
Women with autism have expessed that they feel that more is expected from them than from their male counterparts, simply because of their gender.
Absolutely. I always got in trouble for things that would not have been an issue if I was a male. If I was a boy at school my behaviour would have been seen as "matter of fact" or "truthful" but because I was a girl I was seen as a troublemaker. They thought that no girl could be so naive as to say the sort of things I said.
ditto.
WOW, I always saw the world as being more against differences in MALE behaviour! I don't like sports, am not good with sports, am not aggressive, don't fight everyone, etc.... BTW BOYS can be considered troublemakers ALSO! FORGET the statement "boys will be boys"! It is used to cover ignorance, responsibility, negligence, or downright evil. It RARELY means that the average boy can do any such things freely.
And, especially today, females have many of the benefits they always had, and fewer of the problems. BTW MEN are expected to be emotionally in tune with others as well. HECK, women even expect them to be in tune with women. That doesn't happen that much.
Oh well, the expectations of women ARE vanishing even as they are increasing with men.
Yes, but society really doesnt expect a lack of empathy in females and doesnt know quite what to do with it when it is encountered. Society expects femininity to be almost synonymous with empathy.
