Child psycopaths/narcists with AS

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Heh psychological bull. I'm considered a narcissist. Only reason I can figure as to why is that I know my abilities and am pleased with them.

Which pretty much says that you know nothing practical about how life works for people with psychological disorders and that you are a typical American who think in black and white and hate people who are different.

Whatever the person do with the money is entirely up to him/her: if she wants to buy imported wine from France and live with her parents - or sip Pepsi in an apartment somewhere in the suburbs, that is none of your business.

You want an alternative? Well, send her out to work - and she may end up being on welfare or unemployment benefits in 6 months when the trial employment runs out because the employer did not see her as a potential employee and decided to look for someone new to hire.

As long as many employers are thickheaded joe-averages with a somewhat ok lifestyle that thinks that everyone who is not them are ok - unless they are dying or something similar, i think it is better to remove people from the workforce and give them some sort of stable existance than to put them through hell and increase recruitment expenditures for corporations.

That will result in increased expenses for the company and probably end up with expensive treatment for depression and disorders based upon stress that society has to pay. But i am sure that you thought about that macro-economic angle, did you? But sure, it is better to make people pay for their own healthcare and ignore the problem, until the next random killing by a lone gunman puts a 5.56" in your forehead because of "unknown reasons".

A difference between a narcissist and a sociopath is that the narcissist causes trouble for attention. The sociopath does things behind the scenes to cause trouble.

Oppositional defiance can last into adult hood. This seems to better suit you. There might be traces of narcissism in you, but you are definitely not a sociopath.

I had a run in with a sociopath. Despite me picking him up bodily, choking him out until his eyes rolled back, and then throwing him out of a night club, he charmed his way back in. He later challenged me, claiming he could take me, despite being a foot shorter and at least 60 pounds lighter. In all the years that we put up with him, I had never seen him fight, and yet he seemed unable to grasp that hew was less powerful than me.

I told him he could try right then and there. We were standing in the middle of the night club. I guess he didnt want the attention, because he left and never came back.

They do not like being exposed. They do not want direct attention. They do not want to be seen as an aggressor.

Narcissists do.

Oddly, I think it was because I am an aspie that I was able to effectively deal with him. I broke standard protocol. Appropriate behaviour would have been to capitulate or to get aggressive. One would put him in power, and the other would gain him sympathy.

So unless you are playing a very interesting game, I do not think you are a sociopath.

Of course you happen to know everything there is to know about me. I congratulate you on your superb psychological analysis. I was once seething with virulent hatred but your wonderful little rant cured me of my personal ills.


Therefore the taxpayers must give their hard earned dollars to buy designer clothes and plastic surgery for a girl who happens to be in an above average socioeconomic status. Let me guess; you also happen to support Obamanomics?



Is it truly unreasonable to say that $1500 a month is too much to give to a woman who ALREADY happens to live with upper-middle class parents? Do you know the difference between luxury and necessity? As she is currently living with her parents, she is in no immediate danger.



Just playing the devil's advocate here, but don't you advocate forcibly removing those who psychologically differ from the norm from any chance of employment? Of course we all must perfectly conform or else we are too worthless to contribute. What a wonderful display of tolerance and compassion you have shown us through your words of precious wisdom.

Its an interesting point that you raise. Its probably illustrative of the power of social networking.

A fully functional woman of her age would have that income(she said it was minimum wage), that is, someone with good social skills would gain that for themselves.

That someone with poor social skills can gain that is indicative of good access to social support. Someone is a liaison for her deficiencies. Social skills and affluence by proxy.

We forget, as aspies, because we are not good at social networking, that everyone relies on someone else. For instance, a businessman may get his computer repaired by his son, who gains no remuneration.

But quid pro quo can be subtle. We each need each other to live lives of comfort. She gets some of that through a government program.

You should not begrudge her good luck nor anyones for that matter. Shes blessed in that she is surrounded by people that help put her life on parity with her peers. This is not to be scorned. It is to be expected. It is the holy grail of aspergerians that we alleviate our social malfunction. Hell, its the prerogative of humanity.

For instance, there are aspies that are perfectly able to make incomes exceeding 100k a year. And yet, with all that money, they cannot find someone to be their friend. So a social program may be their only option. That option may cost in excess of 1500 per month, but its not where the money goes that counts, but the effect that it has. It could go to a social worker as wage, or to a mental hospital or just to the aspie, but its public money spent.

The disability exists. The options are deal with it as a society, or relegate that person to isolation. Pretend they dont exist.

I get 542 dollars a month. I started receiving this after 18 years of struggling to work. I continue to seek work. I live with my mom who is very upper middle class.

I applied for 200 dollars per month, enough to make my car insurance payment and a tank of gas. I am a fiscal conservative. But it was made quite clear to me that it is important to have some money in ones pocket for discretionary purchases and unforeseen events. I could make do on less. Thats why i asked for only 200. Just to cover my expenses.

But the new found ability to go somewhere, DO something, have a freakin TREAT now and then makes me a participating member of society instead of living an isolated worthless existence.

Because thats what good societies do. Find some way for everyone to participate.

I'm a guy, by the way. Not a girl.

I looked at what you typed and made my judgement. I judge people what they say and do, not what their color of their skin (etc) are.



I support anything that is not republican. You people have serious issues with the perception of reality.



Not in my country where we have a working economy and people are treated as equals instead of being treated after how much tax they are paying. I live in a first world country, unlike you.



No. *HERE* people have a choice. If things do not work out, they can get retirement if they qualify to need it, i.e. having problems maintaining a job or any other work related issue (which produce stress and they become "burned out") - they are not forced to stop working at all.

In my country, we take care of the corporations - AND - the working population. But since you live in a narrow minded capitalist society (which basically says "F--k you" to everyone) this can only sound like science fiction to you, but i assure you, this is real.

There is a reason why northern Europe look down upon the United states. We are NOT impressed.

"The narcissist switches between social agility and social impairment voluntarily. His social dysfunctioning is the outcome of conscious haughtiness and the reluctance to invest scarce mental energy in cultivating relationships with inferior and unworthy others. When confronted with potential Sources of Narcissistic Supply, however, the narcissist easily regains his social skills, his charm, and his gregariousness.

Many narcissists reach the highest rungs of their community, church, firm, or voluntary organization. Most of the time, they function flawlessly - though the inevitable blowups and the grating extortion of Narcissistic Supply usually put an end to the narcissist's career and social liaisons.

The Asperger's patient often wants to be accepted socially, to have friends, to marry, to be sexually active, and to sire offspring. He just doesn't have a clue how to go about it. His affect is limited. His initiative - for instance, to share his experiences with nearest and dearest or to engage in foreplay - is thwarted. His ability to divulge his emotions stilted. He is incapable or reciprocating and is largely unaware of the wishes, needs, and feelings of his interlocutors or counterparties.

Inevitably, Asperger's patients are perceived by others to be cold, eccentric, insensitive, indifferent, repulsive, exploitative or emotionally-absent. To avoid the pain of rejection, they confine themselves to solitary activities - but, unlike the schizoid, not by choice. They limit their world to a single topic, hobby, or person and dive in with the greatest, all-consuming intensity, excluding all other matters and everyone else. It is a form of hurt-control and pain regulation.

Thus, while the narcissist avoids pain by excluding, devaluing, and discarding others - the Asperger's patient achieves the same result by withdrawing and by passionately incorporating in his universe only one or two people and one or two subjects of interest. Both narcissists and Asperger's patients are prone to react with depression to perceived slights and injuries - but Asperger's patients are far more at risk of self-harm and suicide."


3. The use of language

Patients with most personality disorders are skilled communicators and manipulators of language. In some personality disorders (Antisocial, Narcissistic, Histrionic, Paranoid) the patients' linguistic skills far surpass the average. The narcissist, for instance, hones language as an instrument and uses it to obtain Narcissistic Supply or as a weapon to obliterate his "enemies" and discarded sources with. Cerebral narcissists actually derive Narcissistic Supply from the consummate use they make of their innate loquaciousness.

In contrast, the Asperger's patient, though verbose at times (and taciturn on other occasions) has a far more limited range of tediously repetitive topics. People with Asperger's fail to observe conversational rules and etiquette (for instance, let others speak in turn). The Asperger's patient is unaware and, therefore, unable to decipher body language and external social and nonverbal cues and gestures. He is incapable of monitoring his own misbehavior. Psychopaths, narcissists, borderlines, schizotypals, histrionics, paranoids, and schizoids are similarly inconsiderate - but they control their behavior and are fully cognizant of reactions by others. They simply choose to ignore these data.








Read more: http://personalitydisorders.suite101.co ... F824aVYJ&B

Being a sociopath/narciscist and autistic seems rather exclusive to me. Sociopaths/narcistics are highly manipulative and can enjoy making others small/weak/in pain. To be able to do this requires a high level of theory of mind - understanding how other people work is essential in order to manipulate them or cause them to suffer.

I had a friend who I now think is a narcissist (maybe even a sociopath), but at the time we were friends she seemed to be the only person who understood me and cared about me, and because of that I allowed (and wasn't even aware of) the manipulation of me that she did (only later did I realise that everything we did was her choice, and almost all our conversations had her as the starring character and me trying to help her with whatever problem she had - never a problem of her own fault of course - at the time I almost worshipped her as the best friend I'd ever had). When she no longer wanted me (I was becoming depressed and she didn't want to help me which was making me worse and therefore useless to her), she discarded me and hurt me in the way she must have know would hurt most - by completely ignoring me (knowing that my depression was mainly caused by social rejection and isolation). I truly believed that this was one person - the one person in my entire life who seemed to understand me, particularly my depression which she seemed to emulate to a certain extent when with me, but which completely disappeared when she was with others she wanted to impress or after she decided to get rid of me. I did briefly consider that she might be AS because she did seem similar to me, but observing her later, I realised that she often adopted the personality of whoever she was with to get them to like her and therefore be able to get what she wanted out of each situation. She did say to me that she only ever did things she wanted to do and that she never blamed herself for anything. I do (maybe foolishly) think that perhaps she was unaware of her manipulation and genuinely thought she was the nice person and the rest of us were in the wrong.

Just based on this, I wouldn't have AS. However, I still think I have both even though my AS in no way makes me unable to read body language or understand what's appropriate. Always when I got my outbursts and created a scene I knew it was very inappropriate. When I hurt others I knew they were hurt. I just couldn't control the flow of anger, need for attention, self pity. It became overwhelming.

I probably won't get a proper diagnosis ever that would explain why I am the way I am. The AS explanation that I just "don't understand social rules" etc is BS. I understand everything, I just always felt like I was walking around with my nerves on the outside. Oversensitive to everything. I just have some AS traits but the most important ones seem to be absent in me.

Personally, I think it's worse living without fully understanding why everything just goes wrong in my life, why I can't handle school, why I feel like society is my enemy. If I could blame it all on AS it would be so easy, but I'm lying to myself if I say I think all my failures are because of AS. It's probably a combination... It feels like I'm totally crippled with emotional trauma, anger, hatred. I wasn't always this far from society, I've drifted further outside close to the point of no return. Whenever I even think of trying to climb the mountain and re-enter society I feel almost physical pain and a really strong hatred that paralyses me just like in a nightmare where everything goes in slow motion. I feel drugged almost. Staying outside of society and living on government money is the only way I can even move or think. Everything freezes up when I think about people and responsibility.

I do have a high level of theory of mind, but at the same time I have AS. I can read and understand people so well but I still have classical AS abilities like obsessive interests and doing monotone and repetitive things for hours.

Last edited by Zoonic on 10 May 2009, 6:25 pm, edited 4 times in total.

Yes Zoonic, don't worry what the others say, you are a narcissist and an aspie and it is okay to be those things. It is not your fault so never ever be sad or frustrated about who you are. You need to forgive yourself and realize how good of a person you actually are (no matter what you have done or said in the past). You are an innocent child worthy of love and all the best things in life, no matter what anyone has ever said to you. The others cannot know that inside you do the best you can and are a good person deep down, because they have never dealt with the problems that you have in your life or been treated in such a very wrong way. You don't have to change if you don't want to, but your existential void will clear up and will be filled with good feelings and love, you will lead a much better quality of life (whether or not this is clear to you that your life WILL actually be better if you change I am not sure, it used to be for me that I thought being a narcissist made me powerful and improved my quality of life until I realized how much pain I was actually in and how powerless I felt deep down). Remember this to be true : As soon as you accept the evil that is within you it will turn to goodness. The problem here is that you have to accept all parts of yourself, the good, the bad, and the parts you feel you cannot bring yourself to accept.

I always want to be liked or loved and want to please, but I have averse reactions too, like if one loves me I have the urge to reject it and always destroy what could be nice, including my art exhibitions, in the end I end up being a victim of my own boycots which I usually don't see coming.

is that aspie too? I have been accused by people that I manipulate people (because I do so my best to be nice or to get love, pathetic isn't it?

I think I've started that process, but whenever I'm questioned or challenged I regress back to narcissism and hatred and the backlash is even more painful than if I would have been shielded behind my fake ego. It results in increased rage and self glorification for a shorter period of a few days to a few weeks, with reoccuring, compulsive attention whore and sadistic impulses even after that. Also, I really have a hard time seeing how my life could get a meaning even if I accept myself and learn to be harmonious and humble.

Yes, I was the same way for the first few months of my healing, which I did not start with the intention of healing, but more to increase power. (And I'm sure I seem quite stupid and less intelligent than you, and not worthy of respect, but please read on Zoonic, because I am like you, even if you have never encountered anyone like yourself ever before in real life, only in history. We are a rare breed.) (I write this because the only way you will be able to take my advice is if you respect me. and the only way that a person with NPD can fully respect someone is if they believe them to be like themselves, and coincidentally, we are very alike.)

When you were growing up you were chased into a labyrinth filled with monsters by nasty circumstances in the outside world, which you were especially scared of since you were so smart and sensitive and knew the real danger these circumstances presented to you, so you ran deeper than most people would. This labyrinth is psychological in nature.

By chance one day you find a sword and shield, perhaps from a real life person, perhaps through the internet, perhaps simply by observing life and learning. This is the time when you learn perhaps something is wrong with the way you are living your life.

Healing NPD is kind of like escaping the labyrinth filled with medusas using only the reflection of your shield to help you fight them. At first you are continually turned to stone by the demons (fears, pains, irrational thinking processes (which you are probably not currently aware you are suffering from, and although you are probably incredibly intelligent you are unable to perceive them)). You decide it best not to face the medusas at all, and continue to live your life, and forget that you are trapped in a labyrinth. However since you are deep underground far away from the sun and nature you feel there is something missing and it gnaws at you, causing the existential void.
However, one day, perhaps by chance, you notice that the shield you carry through life can be used as a mirror and you can use its reflective properties to look around corners for medusas. This signifies the first step to healing, the attempt to reconnect with your true self (symbolized by the shield). You find that the shield can be useful in fighting the medusas; simply by looking deep inside yourself and reflecting (with love and knowledge) you can actually defeat whatever pain fear and evil lurks deep inside. Many wounds are still suffered in battle (symbolized by the large amounts of pain it takes to cure yourself of this disorder), but with each victory you gain confidence that you are on the right path and continue on healing, sorting through thoughts, memories, pain and fear.

Occasionally you will face even greater enemies, minotaurs. Minotaurs are real life nasty people (possibly narcissists themselves) who may be apart of your life and make it hard for you to heal (escape the labyrinth). They will abuse you, belittle you, and make you feel justified in never having to heal yourself. They can be hard to find and may be people who you live with and are unaware of their toxicity to your emotional well being (your mother or father, siblings etc, even the ones perhaps you don't suspect). They can also be normal people who simply question you or challenge you in real life, but they cannot be defeated (cannot be killed since they are people, and your shield is no use here, since self reflection is not enough to escape real life threats to your emotional well being, especially when you are emotionally weak and damaged, and when you are weak, everything is considered a threat). However with confidence gained from battling medusas you will be able to escape these minotaurs and run past them to unexplored parts of the labyrinth.
With every wrong turn you get to know the labyrinth better, you begin to see its layout in your mind. You know which areas have to be probed deeper into to find the escape.
You start to get closer to the surface of the earth, and are much stronger from your battles, and wiser as well from navigating the emotional labyrinth. You existential pain lessens little by little as you know you are on the right track, and your life will be better soon. Revelation after revelation is experienced.
Someday perhaps you will see the sun again, and see it is more beautiful and worthwhile then eating healthy foods such as fish and getting cosmetic surgery in the dark. (Reminds me of Gollum, btw watch Lord of the Rings, Gollum's struggle with the ring is another great metaphor for narcissism.)
When you emerge from the labyrinth you find you are now full grown and can deal with the threats that chased you into it in the first place (parents probably, or nasty NT's, who you can now choose to avoid).

Okay so that was a cheesy metaphor for healing NPD, but perhaps you enjoyed it and perhaps you understood it and can apply it to your life.

Perhaps there is no meaning of life, whether you live in underground unknowingly in a monster filled maze like Gollum, a creature no one could ever truly love for anything other than his ring, or if you are truly the most beautiful loving and wise person such as Gandalf roaming the Shire, sharing love and magic with the hobbits, but I know who I would rather be, even if I have not yet fully escaped my labyrinth.

Hey Zoonic I just noticed something weird, we both joined WP on the same day.

Noticed that too

Noticed another person with similarity.