The site where they BASH Aspie husband and wives. :O

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Do you realize that you just completely bypassed my stated logic, and justified it by using an example of imagined social pressure?

Your personal intolerance is being justified by pointing out that others around you are also intolerant.

We will never get anywhere like that.

I did not. If I understand what your logic is you are saying that any statement is open to interpretation by the listener. Which I think is true. Everyone brings their own experience and understanding to the table.
However, I don't think the example of the "fat" comment is imagined social pressure. It actually is rude to say something like that. This is because the effect of this comment is not obscure. Once you think about the feelings of people the implication of where truths are revealed becomes apparent.


I don't understand how I am being intolerant. Could you explain.


That's the story of my life.

Yes, Amity - how well you said this and expressed exactly what I was waiting to read. I hope the meaning of what you have written becomes understood on that sad and hateful website, and the members there learn from the interchange in this thread. If they can make that shift, then perhaps if they know better, they might do better - though perhaps that is an impossibility.

Curiosity got the best of me and I joined the ASPartners site to see what was going on. The first thing I noticed was on their front page:



So clearly the administrators want to create a space where people feel free to vent on this topic in a one-sided manner. This can be a helpful strategy.

From an admittedly quick look around, the site seems to be similar to others in that it offers diverse viewpoints, some more passionate than others.

I am sure that there are lots of great partners who are autistic, but at the same time the traits of autism are ones that could lead to relationship issues. For myself, I can cite a lack of easy empathetic exchange, emotional distance, rigid and compulsive behaviour, lack of verbal expression, unrealistic naivete, melt-downs. I know I'm not everyone, but my point is that I can see how someone with typical autistic symptoms can be hard to get along with. It's too obvious a point to try to ignore.

No, a statement is only that. It is only information that is correct or not. Any judgment beyond that is the responsibility of the receiver.
That's where it stops unless you know that the person stated the information with the intent of causing some harm, in which case the intent should be addressed.




-Your suggesting that certain statements, factual or not, are not appropriate in the company of other people.
You see, whatever judgment they would imagine in their heads then puts pressure on you.

If someone told you that your hair didn't look quite right today, but in private, you may partially tolerate that. If the same thing happened in front of others, then your tolerance would decrease.
Embarrassment is an imagined thing fueled by the imaginations of other people.
It is completely independent of reality and how factual a statement is.

So one bears no responsibility for one's words as long as the are correct? Any ill receipt of them if the problem of the receiver?

Unless, the intent was to use the words in a hurtful manner, which is not acceptable?





It does. And I'm not saying it's easy. It's taken me years to be able to avoid making an ass of myself in social situations.



Ah ... A brave new world of no embarrassment. Ricky Gervais made a movie with a similar theme.

The Invention of Lying Link

The thing is I'm not sure that these embarrassments are unnecessary. Some things should be kept private between certain people. And also, If one shouldn't be embarrassed about one's hair being a mess, why comment about it at all?

Be careful about posting about it here. Elkclan is already a member of that forum and that she's reading this thread, plus they don't want you there.



Well, did you see what they write about in their hidden forums?



That doesn't mean that we should automatically be dismissed as potential partners though.

Where are the hidden forums? I will explore more.


No it shouldn't. It might to some people, but that's their choice. But as autistics I think it does a disservice to us to ignore potential relationship hazards. It is better to acknowledge a potential weakness and address it rather than pretend it is not there.

I don't think it matters. I don't think androbot is intending to post there so the worse they can do there is mute her. I am totally banned from the forums, everywhere and I don't care because I have no interest in posting there or on other Delphi forums. All I get is a blank page when I login than seeing no reply button. But yet I still get emails from the Delphi site sometimes.

I did not know about that movie. I did see Liar Liar where Jim Carrie couldn't lie for a day. It was disastrous, and makes a great point.
The fact a person feels they must lie, and also that others are expected to lie in response is what is toxic about the interactions, NOT the person who stated a fact.

Factual comments are useful for resolving issues.

Another important point about embarrassment is that it is a tool used by psychopaths.
A person who is easily embarrassed is a person who is easily controlled.

I've had embarrassment attempted on me by several psychopaths and even more NTs who were mimicking psychopathic behavior in doing so.

Any ascription to a one-sided certainty of information paves the road to tragedy.
At best it is obviously reinforcing misconceptions.

I have no intention of posting there. They specifically say it is for partners. If I was dating someone with ASD I might participate.



Is it toxic though? I find it curious, sometimes amusing, sometimes irritating, but not toxic.


I think that at best it allows people to voice concerns and stresses that they may not have anyone else to talk to about. Much like WP. At worst, well I imagine they have their own version of L&D.

They still wouldn't want you there. It's exclusively for NTs.

The world isn't so black and white. One could make a public observation that someone is fat or overweight, but depending on the context that is highly likely to be offensive or hurtful. Perhaps the statement is naive or one could claim that the hurt feelings are only in the imagination of the receiving party but the reality is that words have power. Power beyond merely being true or false. People have feelings and there's something to be said about being sensitive to the feelings of others. When people interact, they are connecting with each other (for better or worse.) That's the reality we live in.

You can claim social structures and interpretations derived from communication are merely a figment of the imagination, although that isn't beneficial to fostering positive relationships (or accurate IMO.) Convincing yourself that thoughts, feelings, relationships, etc are only a figment of the imagination seems like some sort of subconscious defense mechanism to cocoon yourself from pain and/or avoid taking responsibility for your own actions.

Humans are social by nature and the ways in which we socialize are more complex than any other animal on this planet. To merely handwave such things away as a figment of the imagination is a disservice to yourself and others. It is true that if all of our brains disappeared tomorrow then these things would cease to exist, but that doesn't prove it was only in our imagination to begin with.

People connect when they interact. Handwaving other people's thoughts, feelings, interpretations etc as a figment of the imagination is actually disrespectful. It might make you feel better about yourself on a superficial level but you're also denying yourself something beautiful and real: a positive relationship with another person. No man is island.

Last edited by blueblahbleh on 09 Nov 2014, 9:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Using your "logic" olympiadis I could theoretically tell my daughter she is fat and the onus would be upon her to not interpret it negatively. Regardless of my intentions I think it would not be wise to make such a statement because it would be harmful. On the other hand, I wouldn't lie and say she is thin (if she were in fact overweight, which isn't the case.) I would tell her she is a beautiful person (which is true regardless of physical characteristics.)

What would be prudent is to take her feelings into consideration and also be aware that as a parent, my words have impact. In a social situation with friends or even strangers, words may not hold as strong but they still have an impact nonetheless. To ignore this fact is not beneficial and to actually take it a step further by labeling the reaction of others as a figment of the imagination is disrespectful to say the least. Words have power and feelings are real.

There are no wrong feelings but there are wrong behaviors.

Very well said.

Even if some of the people really do have partners with AS, the fact that they are discussing AS with people who admit their partners may not even have it puts the validity of ALL the information shared there in question.

Their mindset seems to be...we've all had similar experiences with our partners, so those experiences must be typical of having a partner with AS. It's completely backwards logic. It's just wrong.

If the people there are basing their understanding of AS on "shared experiences" they are getting a large portion of that information from people who don't have any idea they are talking about.