Social Skills Training for Adults

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LOL! Wow guys we were ALL thinking the same thing here and I LOVE the video.

So I went into his office and he asked me what did I want to do and I told him I didn't care and don't know. He asked me if I was okay about the paper and I told him that I really wasn't "okay" but that I did realize if I wanted to move forward that I had to get out of my own way. I then stated that my cup has been too full and asked him if he knew what I meant. He did so today he drove and I just went for the ride and SURPRISE.... I think I might have moved some more!!

I told him that the key take-away for me last week was the concept of "narrating" during small talk. I then shared that I tried it and it worked for me on many levels. By having to very quickly think of A, B, C (beginning, middle, end) for my subject, it forced me to up-level the detail. I could no longer hear a noun and let my mind wander. I tried it with my boss at my 1:1. He asked me how my week was going so I told him, "I started off rough because of the lab move, but then we got to move in and now I am getting comfortable" Then, I quickly added,, "How is your week going?" And he smiled and started to tell me. He totally took it!! ! Hook, Line and Sinker. I did not let him finish telling me because I had to laugh that he fell for my narrative story and my phony question. We had a good laugh though I think he may have called me an ass.

So NET is that even though I was pissed off and telling the Doctor that the tactics were unfair and that I could NOT step up... I was moving. The Doc let me know that progress is happening. He then pulled out this comic strip that he had picked out for me. (This guy is really good. He comes prepared for every session for me like this) . Anyway.. In the comic strip is a Rat who has a very sarcastic viewpoint of small talk. He basically says that it is useless and people are faking it, etc... I guess it was funny but I was more curious what the point was. The Doc said that at its worst small talk is all those things but it is the hope of NTs, that they will eventually have a friend with the person with whom they are conversing and be able to share deeper stuff.

He then asked me again about the paper and I said that I still struggle with the fact that people have thoughts about me even over small talk. I said that NTs are "Needy Mother F#ckers." and I heard him repeat it and he even popped the F word for me. I smiled but then he said, "And had you been looking at me as I was saying that you would have seen my head nodding." I looked at him and he was nodding his head. He made some reference to me missing stuff and I think this is going to be a new theme.

He then took me back to the conversation I had with a women a few weeks back. The one where i completely missed that she was there to have small talk with me. She ended up leaving awkwardly. He said that as I gained awareness skills about this I will have less and less moments where I make people feel bad. I objected that I did not make her feel badly. How could I have made her feel badly? I did not say anything or do anything wrong? He said that some might take issue that I did not do anything wrong. Then he said that my body language and my non awareness might be considered rude. This made me mad and also shocked me. He said the woman may have had hurt feelings and that her feelings were valid. He asked if I agreed. I told him that I did not. I did NOTHING wrong.

He suggested that I could talk to her next time I saw her and say something like, "I wanted to talk to you about the incident a few weeks ago and I was just in my own little world so did not catch that you just wanted to chat." "Sorry about that". He asked if I would be okay with that. I told him that I would NOT. He asked why and I told him that it would be a lie. I was NOT in my own little world. I was waiting for HER to get to the point of her conversation. SHE approached me so I thought she wanted something. So he changed the words to say the truth and asked me again if I would be okay with saying that to her. He reminded me that her feelings were also valid in that scenario. I sort of blew a little then and put my hands over my head and told him that I don't care. He backed waaaay off then and suggested that we do something else. I came back to him and agreed we should do something else.

So we played the game. He handed me 4 red cards (statement) and 4 green cards (question) He told me that my assignment for the day was to make narrative statements and he would do the same as I asked him questions. He had to tell me to ask him a question (freaking again!! !!) but other than that, this game went more smoothly than any other. The topic was of Music of which I have a special interest. But because my assignment was to narrate, I could not monologue nor go too deeply. I took a longer time than is optimal to answer but was pretty happy with how smoothly the conversation went.

We talked about the symphony and about classical music. And he said he did not like that but liked jazz music. And after the cards were done, we actually continued the conversation a little. We talked about improvising and he mentioned how small talk and connecting with people at this level was like the call and response in improvisation. And that is when it all hit me. I saw flashes of light and I saw me sitting in the middle of a jam circle. I heard Bach, Brahms, and many, many other phrases of music with call and response. I flashed back to the jam circle.

In order to play in a jam circle, you must know the key and the rhythm. (perspective taking) I MUST know what everyone is playing (Listen) in order to be able to play something that makes sense back (Talk). It all made sense to me in this concrete way that did not make sense before. If I do not get the right perspective, or if I do not listen then I may play discordant notes. Also by picturing the words as notes, it makes them finite for me. Measures are short, as are my phrases. Beginning, middle, end.

It's the same thing!! !

Not sure what I am going to do with all of this but I feel like it was a really BIG learning. There is NO SPOON!! !

Honestly, while attempting to make sense of the dreaded "small talk," I suspect one of the best things you can do is try to couch it in terms of your special interest. When practicing conversation skills, every time someone said something seemingly bizarre, I used to think, "Monkey noises! You have to make random noises back at the other monkey to maintain social cohesion."

It's interesting that you called your conversation and question to your boss fake. I understand where that comes from - you could really care less so engaging in that sort of forced dialogue feels like a lie. Of course HE took the 'bait' You were speaking to him in HIS language! He relates to the world in how he feels about it. He doesn't have a basis for comparision in relating to the world in any other way.

I still get all sorts of tense thinking about the implications of that - the fact that it is 'progress' from their perspective. I seriously doubt their ability to see things any other way. Or to acknowledge the validity of seeing and relating to the world with another method. It will always be about how well everyone conforms to their standard. But no sour grapes!

You're out to learn their way - huzzah on the lightbulb moment! I knew you'd have one. I knew you'd find your personal method of relating. I'm so happy for you finding it in this manner - it seemed the empty cup made room for the self realization to seep in! I'm not sure the therapist will realize it is still a mental process - a learned ability but I doubt that even matters.

The missed small talk with the woman - I so empathize with that one. You didn't do anything wrong. Her hurt feelings were a result of not having a silent expectation met. If she had walked in and said - "I really have something I need to talk to someone about - do you have a few minutes?" would you have had a different reaction? Probably, if she had voiced a need you could meet. But expecting other people to guess their needs... It's not fair. We shouldn't have to apologise for that. I agree with you there.

BUT they do recognise each other silent expectations - they read it in body language which they are always subconsciously scanning each other for, they read it in a facial expression, again, something they are always passively scanning for, without thought or effort. If you stopped and looked up at her when she entered the office, she may have had a nervous shuffle in her step, or a hopeful expression on her face as she tried to engage you. Most of these things ARE subtle, especially when you are not used to looking for them. I had to learn them the hard way - I had no innate sense of them either. I don't look into peoples eyes - I am just too uncomfortable for that - but I do watch their faces. I do take in their body language. It is an active thought process everytime I talk to someone. It makes maintaining a conversation difficult because it is multitasking in the extreme. And it is extremely exhausting. But, it can be done.

So glad you found the analogy that clicked into place for you! Here I was thinking that football would somehow figure in there... Music makes perfect sense. Did you share that epiphany with him? Now that you have your rosetta stone hopefully it will all come easier. He may be able to use music analogies to help you along... an exciting time for sure!

There is no spoon!! ! Nearly hurt myself laughing! It should probably be our battle cry!

I've always felt like the silent expectations that people would just know things was passive-aggressive and annoying. I do fine as long as people explicitly tell me what they want, but people always act like I'm a horrible person for asking for this, and then a horrible person all over again when I, as predicted, miss the unspoken expectations.

I feel like, often, all the weight is on me to interpret everyone else, and no one else has any obligation to accommodate me socially. My sister explicitly said this to me when she found out I was diagnosed with AS, that I have to "adapt" and not to use it as an excuse. And I mean, she thought she was giving me helpful advice. But of course it doesn't work that way and even trying is a lot of work.

Unfortunately, I think this is often true - that it is us that carry the burden of adapting. We would not go to France and expect English to be spoken simply because it would be easier for us. We live in a world that is dominated by a form of communication that is in many ways a foreign language to us. I think the best we can hope for is that those close to use will accommodate these differences, but that in general, it is us that must adapt.

I am talking about those close to me. I make more allowances for people who don't know me because it's easier for most interactions.

I also do not believe it is comparable to going to France and expecting them to speak English. I think it is comparable to, say, if I couldn't walk, they might arrange for a ramp to be built so I can get out of the house because these social impairments are a disability, not visiting a different culture. It's not too much to ask people to meet me halfway on certain things, especially if it means we both get what we want. Instead it is so much better for neither of us to get what we want and people to argue because they won't compromise even a little bit.

For a real world example, kfisherx no longer receives negative evaluations at work for things like "doesn't network enough" because they are applicable to her AS.

Last edited by Verdandi on 10 Jun 2011, 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Yeah. I thought you may have been talking specifically about that. I can see how your sister's comments would be very aggravating.

In that context extremely aggravating, in that she had picked a fight with me because I had said something that she thought was the wrong words and the wrong tone, and she kept trying to give me a script for what I am supposed to say in that particular situation.

The situation was that someone told me I had hooked up the dsl modem incorrectly, and I had not. So I said, "I did not hook it up incorrectly." My demeanor, tone of voice, etc, were the same as they typically are, and she interpreted my response as extremely hostile even though I was not hostile at all. The autism came up because she brought it up, but it was all a huge mess.

We had to replace the DSL modem a second time (because she damaged it in her anger), and she and her husband tried to hide it from me so they could set up the internet. Something that took me five minutes to do successfully took them two hours to fail at, and when her husband went to work, she asked me to finish the set up. And it worked.

The issue with the first modem was that the wireless part was not working correctly, since they had purchased a wireless router and the two were interfering. All I needed to do was shut off the wireless router, but her husband got into it after she picked a fight with me and he was f*****g clueless about the entire thing and kept setting them both up incorrectly.

Not that I am bitter.

(sorry about digression)

(also, I do not believe that fight was about me at all, but my sister has no ability to direct her emotions at whatever is really bothering her, and she takes them out on everyone around her)

WELL DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL for being precise

(sarcasm)

So much of what goes wrong isn't what we have said or done. I really think it all boils down to our lack of expected facial expression and body language screws up their subconscious process so badly that they misinterpet us - and blame that on AS which, in the technical sense it is. I have yet to hear a story or witness in real life someone admit that they just can't read me. They make assumptions and guesses as to what I should be feeling and tell me 'well, thats not how you reacted!" when I barely reacted at all.

Social interaction is all about communication in all its forms. Communication takes (at least) two people. Errors in communication are rarely one sided. BOTH sides usually make a mistake which is why therapists have jobs - unravelling those mistakes. I'm not sure why the burden of social skills is soley on those on the spectrum. Why is AS always to blame when it clearly can also be because of an NT misreading someone because of their expectations?

Sorry, but I am not comfortable with always being the scapegoat.

Oh, yes this so much. I get scapegoated socially so often for things I never said or did, but I'm always being misinterpreted and no one will admit that they could possibly have misread me, and constantly project reactions and emotions onto my behavior that are not present. Somehow I never ever get to say, "You know, I actually meant this."

In the aforementioned fight, my sister said outright that what I thought and intended and tried to communicate does not matter, all that matters is what she decided I thought and intended and communicated, and thus she gets to be as angry as she wants even though I never said anything she accused me off.

This is exactly the way she was when she was twelve. Somehow I doubt that I am solely or primarily responsible for any communication misfires, especially since somehow I don't manage to cause drama with most anyone else in the house while communicating in the same way.

So the Doc and I actually had THIS discussion during our little moment that we were talking about me doing something wrong by not acknowledging this woman or catching her need to small talk. While it IS a disability it is NOT the same thing exactly as being in a wheelchair with crippled legs. The brain is plastic and we CAN make changes to how we view the world and how we act. The "trick"is in the balancing of these changes with our abilities to be "okay" with ourselves as I am currently learning to do.

Here is a killer example... My work just had a quarterly event. I go to these most of the time and when I get there, I get my food and go sit off by myself to eat. This gives me time to get acclimated to the noise of the music and people sitting in the main picnic area. With time I can actually venture in there but most of the time I just wait and be alone and people will venture over to speak with me. I always felt like this was normal. Today, as I sat all by myself I realized that this is actually weird and the people who come over to speak to me are probably doing it because they feel badly for me. It felt bad to realize that and I can sort of see how so many people on here get depressed and anxiety, etc... Then I just shrugged it off and went into my own little world and finshed my meal. Soon there were some engineers surrounding me and conversation ensued and it was just fine. Weird how I never noticed that before... It was actually better BEFORE I knew about this...

You are absolutely correct that everything I learn has to be built upon something that I experienced. I only am present for the things I care about so only "experience" those things. There is almost literally NO just telling me something. I have to be able to feel/relate to it.

Well, I want to be clear I wasn't saying they were the same thing. I compared people making an effort to accommodate my impairments as being equivalent to making an effort to accommodate a more obvious, physical impairment. I also talked about meeting me halfway, not them doing all the work. I just don't have the energy to do all the work myself (and in a lot of ways, I don't know how to do all the work). But I had hoped by clarifying "meet them halfway" that it would not come across as being exactly like being unable to walk.



I do the same thing at gatherings, for the same reasons. I've had people outright tell me it was weird, but if I tried to engage directly, I'd just overload.

But I do see what you are saying, I think. But this is also an example of people meeting you partway - you're at the gathering at all, right? And people come to talk to you while you're still by yourself and acclimating. It's not really possible to control other people's reactions and one can't be responsible for every reaction. Yes, people may think you're depressed or lonely or whatever, but what can you do?

Huh.... Never thought of it that way. THAT'S why he called me an ass. It made perfect sense to him to believe it coming from me. Yikes. Okay.... Moving... Moving... Funny, my shrink calls it lying too. I do not. I call it a game or acting but I guess it really is sort of lying because I am supposed to be serious about this. I just cannot get serious. Okay.... more to think about here...



He "gets" it. He really is quite good about all of this and has MEGA experience dealing with ASD. Seriously, I would have either killed him or fired him a LONG time ago if not for this fact. And YES, I have found a way to actually "connect" with the words that I know. NOW I can experiement with making it happen fluidly.




One of my training slides for my "Little" includes my life's most important lesson. And if I had to give my very biggest of the big is this....

It is not about BEING right rather it is about GETTING it right.... And that is why I shut down. I am going to have to "eat my own dog food" on this one I am afraid. If the perception does not match my truth, I always check my truth and change it. I know I have to do that with this case BUT I am not yet ready to do it. I need to work through it. While I do get my fair share of "blame" for social misunderstandings I am not going to be a victim. I will do what is right because it is right.



I did share it with him.... In fact as the realization of the moment hit me, I actually checked out and into my own little world. I sat there and saw myself in the jam circles, I saw stars and lights and heard call/response tunes from multiple composers. I flashed back to his first lesson on this and the BBQ eating versus the vacation and how they tied. I don't know how long I sat there in that state but I know I was talking to myself and working things out in the air. He just sat there in silence and let it happen. When I came back, to him it I pointed to his paper and explained my anaologies and I told him that I got it... I got that had to be "present" in order to make this work. Then it was time to end the session. I did not see his reaction but I imagine he understood what this meant to me.

T It is my "small talk" battle cry at least.

Sometimes I have a hard time coming to this thread because there is just SO MUCH information that I can't take it all in and I feel overloaded by it! But there is so much of ME in it that eventually I'm compelled to come back!

This killer example reminds me of the picnic I went to for a friend's son's birthday and retreated to my cell phone game because I didn't. In fact, it reminds me of a LOT of my interactions! It's not so much the REALIZATION that makes it so bad, but that PLUS the fact that there is only a limited range of things I can do about it! Add to that the fact that people get mad or abusive over the fact that your range of options and abilities is limited...PLUS the fact that people then label you as mean/arrogant/angry when you retaliate against them! Now THERE'S a recipe for ANGST! OMG!! !!

Operating within one's capabilities, that's the key because trying to go beyond that is going to the opposite extreme from what I'm used to doing.

Using social skills training to increase my range of dealing with these types of situations would be more useful that trying to conform to NT standards at a time when it will simply cause more stress. Over time, things DO gradually get better but it seems that there is always some sort of need to translate, if you will, various interactions into something that will make sense in my own mind. This sometimes means announcing to myself (silently, of course) the significance of the forthcoming interaction so that my brain can process it and I can react accordingly.