Aspergers and victim complex

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03 May 2014, 4:25 pm

The way I see it is, this is a website where people come to find support. Inevitably you're going to see a lot of problem-oriented postings. But just because someone's venting about an issue in their life, doesn't automatically mean they're saying they're th only person in the world to have that problem, or that aspies are the only people, etc.

Coming to a support forum to mull over with other about having been bullied at school says nothing about "And we are the ONLY ones to suffer so." I think many here realize that some issues in life overlap into NT lives and experiences as well.

But what does that have to do with discussing them anyway? Of course they will be under discussion. This place is for that.

.

OliveOilMom
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03 May 2014, 4:47 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:

wozeree wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

kraftiekortie wrote:

LOL...you learn something new every day.

I've never heard the term "gaslighting" before today.

That's a terrible thing to do: create false memory, or deny true memories.

There is a very good movie about this....its an old black and white movie, can't think of the name. But basically its about this woman being gaslighted by her family or some relatives that where trying to steal from her essentially by inducing her to have a mental breakdown and think she was losing it. Its a very disturbing movie but its a perfect portrayal of what gaslighting could look like.

Essentially its trying to make someone question their sanity, and feel as though they are totally out of their head...when reality they aren't and its other people deliberately doing things to make that person feel as though they are going totally insane and are becoming entirely incompetent. Its a very sick form of abuse in my opinion. I think the term initially came from an incident where some guy would turn on what is called a gas light when it was already turned off so his wife thought she was going crazy because she'd put it out but then it would be lit again ....so the husband told her she was delusional, never actually turned it off and was going insane if I remember right.

LOL, it's called Gaslight. Ingrid Bergman and I think Charles Boyer. Great flick!

Yeah I never remember the names of old movies I've watched except I do remember The African Queen or whatever....now that's a great movie to not about gaslighting or anything obviously.

I've never seen anything with Bogart in it, but I really do want to watch Casablanca. My husband loves that movie, and The Maltese Falcon. I did however, read Lauren Bacall's autobiography.

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03 May 2014, 4:51 pm

marshall wrote:

The thing that bothers me is that people have so much energy to complain about random people on the internet not acting on your advice. I could understand if you were talking about people you personally know, but people on the internet? You can't possibly know them well enough to know exactly what they need to do. If people whining on the internet makes you uncomfortable, just avoid those threads. It's not like these people are actually in your life. If they were people literally coming to you to complain in real life, your frustration of having to listen to them all the time would be understandable. Complaining about people whining on the internet comes across as very high-and-mighty, i.e. its being highly opinionated about the lives of people you don't really know or care about just for the hell of it. There's a high likelihood the people you criticize for "whining" will be way more hurt by your insensitive words than you are "annoyed" by voluntarily reading their posts. That's the injustice of it. That's the part people who do this don't seem to get. If your life is so easy that you have the energy to be massively upset over people not listening to your advice over the internet, count your blessings. Go live by your own advice and quit your bitching. Don't want people on the internet bringing you down? Don't read their damn posts.

^THIS. And this too :

marshall wrote:

Expressing annoyance tends to negate any assumption that there's actual caring. It just looks high-and-mighty, and stubborn. Getting annoyed makes it appear you think the solution is easier than it is for them. It's hard to form an accurate assessment over the internet. You only know what the person communicated to you. They might have already tried your advice, or they might not have. They might not try because they're afraid it won't work. I'll admit this happens to me. Call it a "victim complex" or call it anxiety avoidance. In any case, positive encouragement is way more likely to help than acting annoyed and saying things that shame the person. If nothing you say helps and they just repeat the same complaints over and over, then they are likely just expressing frustration and don't necessarily want practical advice. In that case someone on the internet isn't likely to help. They just want to feel heard so they can temporarily feel less alone. Seeking sympathy shouldn't be considered shameful just because it doesn't solve the problem. You know what happens when people are continuously shamed for seeking sympathy? They get bitter and angry instead. They blame other people because they're tired of people taking advantage of their vulnerability by attacking them for it. When people constantly feel attacked they tend to attack back.

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03 May 2014, 4:56 pm

Yes,I agree with mashall.Plus I get sick and tired of
getting accused that I haven't improved myself or try to.
I have,I modified alot of my behavior and done
tons of improvement of myself.

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03 May 2014, 6:13 pm

Dear Bleh - Thanks for your input. There is however another aspect to what I'm dealing with w/ASPD types which I never had a term for before. It's called "Daminato Memoriae" (damned/erased through eternity).

This began in the '90s for me as I separated from business from the others. By '97 I was exiled and not spoken of/to due to this. I returned to my "homelands" in 2000 to prepare for my retirement on a "family" nature/game reserve I super helped create, build and equally pay for. But through various means the "family' kept me out of access while they used it up - a 10 year exile. Worse, the place was no longer income producing and in debt, which I was not told of, although "family" registered me as corp. Pres. - without meetings or votes! When the clear need to sell this great place was realized by all, the others took over. In the sale brochures and website there were no photos of me, my past and contribution there, only the others. I was not consulted on anything re this place's end. There were photos of the others there at that place, but not of me. When my Mother was dying in '09, I was not informed, but mass emails were sent around town and everywhere else by my younger sister - she had edged me out of the estate through her suck ups.

Since then, to present, I "sense" this need/objective to erase me from contribution/memory This seems the worst of psychopathy and is little understood.

Another fragment of a "story best not told". FYI, for the wary.

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03 May 2014, 7:20 pm

OliveOilMom wrote:

marshall wrote:

OliveOilMom wrote:

Maybe it bothers people because once they start talking to them and trying to help, they actually start caring about them. Just because it's typed doesn't mean it's not real people behind the screen.

It doesn't change how people feel just because you assume they feel a different way. So, you don't ever get annoyed with people you care about? It also doesn't matter whether you think it looks high and mighty or stubborn or whatever. If I give somebody advice, I'm really trying to help them and I obviously care enough to sit down and type it out.

It matters what other people think because they aren't you and don't necessarily see things the same way you do.

Quote:

You mention positive encouragement like it's something nobody ever does who ends up annoyed with somebody. You keep giving someone positive encouragement over and over and over and yet they get more and more bitter the more you try to encourage them. When someone blows off a logical solution by saying "It won't do any good" over, and over, and doesn't give you a reason why they can't or won't try it, it pretty much gives you the impression that they don't really want a solution, they just want people to feel sorry for them. There is a difference between wishing you had a viable solution to your problem and complaining about the lack of one and just wanting to complain about the problem so you get attention and pity for it, and people are on your side against whatever it is you seem to think is the root of your problem. Eventually you get frustrated with them and realize that they don't really want help, they just want people to pretty much give them permission to not work on the problem and absolve them from everything related to it.

Maybe the solution that seems so logical to you doesn't seem feasible to them. If they thought your solution would work they would probably be more eager to try it. If they say they don't believe it will work, they most likely really don't believe it will work. Notice I didn't say it won't work, just that they don't believe it will work. Also, to claim they don't want help just because they're venting is putting your own assumptions about their motive into their head. You say you don't like it when people claim you're intentionally acting high and mighty and trying to insult people. Telling them they don't want help is the same thing. It's obnoxious to have people tell you you think something you don't really think. The real crux of the problem is they don't believe the solution you give will work, not that they don't want help.

Quote:

That's where it becomes victim mentality instead of a real victim. When the main goal of complaining is to get people to agree with you that you couldn't fix the problem thats bothering you, rather than seeking a solution or speaking out about your problem and the real reasons why you can't fix it so that maybe somebody else can avoid that situation themselves, it becomes victim mentality. Sure, it's normal and natural to complain about something you can't fix, even if it's just go vent. That's normal. That's healthy. But when it becomes an ongoing theme, then it's victim mentality.

And if they do have a "victim mentality" what good does it do to attack them and judge them? People get more bitter and resistant when they feel they are being attacked and criticized. Where is your logic? What's your goal? If you don't have a goal and you're just venting, then you're doing the exact same thing they are. You're complaining about a problem you don't know how to fix, the problem of getting other people to take your advice. What's the logic of doing that if all you do is upset people more? There's no difference.

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03 May 2014, 7:37 pm

billiscool wrote:

Yes,I agree with mashall.Plus I get sick and tired of
getting accused that I haven't improved myself or try to.
I have,I modified alot of my behavior and done
tons of improvement of myself.

People accuse you of things because you make blanket statements about groups of people and oversimplify things in ways that make you appear bigoted. You're not the only one that's sensitive.

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03 May 2014, 10:20 pm

marshall wrote:

The thing that bothers me is that people have so much energy to complain about random people on the internet not acting on your advice. I could understand if you were talking about people you personally know, but people on the internet? You can't possibly know them well enough to know exactly what they need to do. If people whining on the internet makes you uncomfortable, just avoid those threads. It's not like these people are actually in your life. If they were people literally coming to you to complain in real life, your frustration of having to listen to them all the time would be understandable. Complaining about people whining on the internet comes across as very high-and-mighty, i.e. its being highly opinionated about the lives of people you don't really know or care about just for the hell of it. There's a high likelihood the people you criticize for "whining" will be way more hurt by your insensitive words than you are "annoyed" by voluntarily reading their posts. That's the injustice of it. That's the part people who do this don't seem to get. If your life is so easy that you have the energy to be massively upset over people not listening to your advice over the internet, count your blessings. Go live by your own advice and quit your bitching. Don't want people on the internet bringing you down? Don't read their damn posts.

That's very wise.

I agree.

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03 May 2014, 11:01 pm

marshall wrote:

It's obnoxious to have people tell you you think something you don't really think.

I'll answer the rest of this later. I'm dealing with a personal crisis at the moment, but, it's obnoxious to have people to tell you you think something you don't really think huh? You meal like you are doing to me?

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04 May 2014, 9:40 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:

littlebee wrote:

ASPartOfMe wrote:

What might not have been obvious to Hale_Bopp the OP is that many if not a large majority of members have had these type words thrown at them intentionally or out or ignorance repeatedly causing all sorts of pain and mental damage. Because of this creating a thread around the words "victim complex" thus became a strong trigger.

People assumed Hale was yet another bully trying to invalidate them. I don't believe that was her intent. Hale is an aspie and thus is likely to have deficits in understanding the motives and feelings of her fellow WP members. In other words Hale did what most of us have done more times then we care to remember.

And bullies have deficits in understanding, too, and have probably been bullied themselves, which is where they learned to do it, so what you have written is in this sense is a self-negating comment. Just give those bullies some slack.. (mild scarcasm intended:-)=_

That bullies have deficits understanding and have been bullied themselves is a blanket statement (My bullies seemed to have had enough understanding to exploit my weaknesses).

I noticed that Hale wrote that she had worded things incorrectly and learned a few things. She also repeated several times that her comments were not directed at real victims. To me these were confirmation she was not intending to hurt people. To me that is morally very different then bullies who intentionally engage in sadistic acts multiple times. One of my motives in replying was attempt to explain to her why in my opinion her words received repeated negative reactions. I also hope that a possible explanation might ease the pain of those whose feelings were hurt. It's part of the forum group behavior that you are interested in.

Hi AsPartOfMe. You wrote yesterday:

Quote:

People assumed Hale was yet another bully trying to invalidate them. I don't believe that was her intent. Hale is an aspie and thus is likely to have deficits in understanding the motives and feelings of her fellow WP members. In other words Hale did what most of us have done more times then we care to remember.

it is obvious that you are attempting to cultivate some kind of a quality of impartiality and also to approach from the middle ground, and for the sake of your brother, too, all good, but is it possible that because you yourself are an aspie or autistic or whatever you may be missing something that she and some other people are seeing? I mean completely missing it?

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04 May 2014, 9:51 am

marshall wrote:

The thing that bothers me is that people have so much energy to complain about random people on the internet not acting on your advice. I could understand if you were talking about people you personally know, but people on the internet? You can't possibly know them well enough to know exactly what they need to do. If people whining on the internet makes you uncomfortable, just avoid those threads. It's not like these people are actually in your life. If they were people literally coming to you to complain in real life, your frustration of having to listen to them all the time would be understandable. Complaining about people whining on the internet comes across as very high-and-mighty, i.e. its being highly opinionated about the lives of people you don't really know or care about just for the hell of it. There's a high likelihood the people you criticize for "whining" will be way more hurt by your insensitive words than you are "annoyed" by voluntarily reading their posts. That's the injustice of it. That's the part people who do this don't seem to get. If your life is so easy that you have the energy to be massively upset over people not listening to your advice over the internet, count your blessings. Go live by your own advice and quit your bitching. Don't want people on the internet bringing you down? Don't read their damn posts.

Marshall, you are whining about these other people who are whining about people who are whining. Do you realize this? Obviously not:-) So why do you yourself just not read the messages of people who are whining about other people whining?

I write this not to criticize you but to illustrate how this kind of approach is really quite limited. The idea of just not reading the messages of these people is pretty good. I might give that advice myself, but he problem is you seem to be missing something else that may be going on here on WP and underlying the kind of thread hale_bopp made and quite a few other people have made. It is worthy of enquiring further into, imo.

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13 May 2014, 1:06 pm

littlebee wrote:

ASPartOfMe wrote:

littlebee wrote:

ASPartOfMe wrote:

Hi AsPartOfMe. You wrote yesterday:

Quote:

As a human of course I could be missing something or everything, and as an aspie the chances are a lot greater. It has happened before and will happen again. Knowing that I am wired to be a black and white thinker I do intentionally make an attempt to see things in "grey" as a coping technique. Ironically that coping technique will likely cause me to miss things. But the wrong solution is to not state my opinion out of fear of being wrong.

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