Is self-diagnosis okay/valid/a good thing?

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btbnnyr
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12 Dec 2014, 7:52 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:

I think what you stated is valid, StarKid. Even one who is officially diagnosed could do the same thing.

However, we must point out the potential dangers when someone goes "too far" within the realm of self-diagnosis.

This occurs when the "self-diagnoser" "diagnoses" his/her self based upon the medical definition of the term, rather than the broader definition as presented within the WrongPlanet context.

What is the broader definition in the wp context?
It seems that people just say that they have autism, ASD, or AS, using the same words as the medical definition.
If you mean broad autism phenotype, then I have no problem at all with anyone saying that they are BAP, as that is not a medical term with a medical definition. I often say that my parents are BAP, as they both have some traits similar to my autistic traits, but they are not diagnosed and don't need to be.

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sonicallysensitive
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12 Dec 2014, 7:53 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:

I think NCOT was being ironic. She actually, by and large, agrees with your viewpoint on this topic.

Ah.

Yes I see it now! (I hope?!)

Irony on an autism forum - could be dangerous!! !

Apologies NCOT if you were being ironic - I completely missed it!!

NiceCupOfTea
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12 Dec 2014, 7:54 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:

I think NCOT was being ironic. She actually, by and large, agrees with your viewpoint on this topic.

kraftiekortie gets me... >.>

EDIT: @sonicallysensitive - No worries! I realise using irony on an autism is a danger, but what else can I say other than some men (or women) just like to watch the world burn? :p

PS: If I use m8 (mate) or dumb emoticons, then it's much more likely I'm being ironic, tongue-in-cheek, not entirely serious, etc.

Sweetleaf
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12 Dec 2014, 7:56 pm

starkid wrote:

Now that we have Obamacare in the U.S., I don't understand how an ASD assessment is too expensive for U.S. citizens. Maybe my state has better coverage than others, but I'm getting TWO completely different assessments without having to pay a dime.

I guess my state has more qualified practitioners as well. The more practitioners there are, the more likely one is to find someone who is willing to take one's insurance.

Well for people still unable to afford insurance who do not qualify for medicaid or medicare, would still have some difficulty not to mention not all insurance would cover an assessment and medicaid/medicare are limited in where they are accepted so that could also make it difficult.

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sonicallysensitive
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12 Dec 2014, 7:59 pm

NiceCupOfTea wrote:

EDIT: @sonicallysensitive - No worries! I realise using irony on an autism is a danger, but what else can I say other than some men (or women) just like to watch the world burn? :p

Quite!!

NiceCupOfTea wrote:

PS: If I use m8 (mate) or dumb emoticons, then it's much more likely I'm being ironic, tongue-in-cheek, not entirely serious, etc.

Noted and logged for future reference!!

AspieUtah
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12 Dec 2014, 8:05 pm

sonicallysensitive wrote:

If self-diagnosis is valid, at which age is it valid?
If it isn't an age issue, who judges?

Do we need to create a test to decide if someone is capable of self-diagnosing?

What are the control measures?

The libertarian in me says that every individual is free to determine the conditions and parameters of the individual's self diagnosis in all things (e.g., I have one or more ASDs; I weigh more than I feel like I should; I should stop smoking; I have a cold coming on, so I should buy some chicken soup).

If I was invited to dictate, I would have the individual:

--complete at least one legitimate ASD-screening test,
--complete at least one legitimate ASD-factor test (if any),
--detail all lifelong ASD characteristics of the individual with examples and ages,
--detail all ASD-factor diagnoses with ages (if any), and
--research the published diagnostic criteria and commentaries of known professionals.

I would respect any reason (including "just don't want to" do so) the individual has which causes the individual to decline a professional diagnosis unless the individual wishes to gain a tangible governmental or professional benefit from such a diagnosis (but that is a condition of the government or profession, not a condition of the individual or me).

If the individual wishes to self-medicate or self-treat invasively, I would understand that there is almost nothing I could do to prevent that beyond well-intentioned advice. After all, such individuals will do what they do with or without laws, regulations, policies or friendly advice.

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Last edited by AspieUtah on 12 Dec 2014, 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

starkid
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12 Dec 2014, 8:07 pm

sonicallysensitive wrote:

Do we need to create a test to decide if someone is capable of self-diagnosing?

Maybe the people who are inclined to self-diagnose will also be inclined to simply self-validate themselves as capable of self-diagnosing without using the test. :lol:

Then we could create a test to determine who is capable of self-validating for the capability of self-diagnosing. :!:

kraftiekortie
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12 Dec 2014, 8:10 pm

I would say, within the WP context, people who are "self-diagnosed," by and large, operate under the following definitions of "diagnosis:

1. Determining or analysis of the cause or nature of a problem or situation

2. An answer or solution to a problematic situation.

They do not, by and large, operate under the medical definition of "diagnosis."

btbnnyr
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12 Dec 2014, 8:14 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:

Oh, I see that we are talking about definition of diagnosis.
But they are using the medical diagnostic label autism to describe themselves, which seems problematic to me, if they mean something other than medical diagnosis, since autism is a medical diagnosis.

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kraftiekortie
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12 Dec 2014, 8:19 pm

I believe autism lies in that vague zone--which lies within a Venn Diagram which depicts the disciplines of neurology, psychology, and medicine.

sonicallysensitive
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12 Dec 2014, 8:24 pm

AspieUtah wrote:

Which takes us back to pre-medieval. This is witch doctor territory.

If an individual is free to diagnose in all things, they could diagnose a sore stomach as nothing more than a sore stomach - then die from a burst appendix. This is just one example from a possible list of thousands.

If the reply is 'but you can't die from autism', the question would be where do you draw the line?

Edit (small addition) - by your definition, a 5-year old could 'diagnose' themselves as being schizophrenic. I don't know if you're being serious with your post or joking (I say that in light to my confusion with the recent posts).

AspieUtah wrote:

If I was invited to dictate, I would have the individual:

--complete at least one legitimate ASD-screening test,
--complete at least one legitimate ASD-factor test (if any),
--detail all lifelong ASD characteristics of the individual with examples and ages,
--detail all ASD-factor diagnoses with ages (if any), and
--research the published diagnostic criteria and commentaries of known professionals.

Which equates to using the parts of the medical process that suit, and dismissing the parts that don't suit?

AspieUtah wrote:

I would respect any reason (including "just don't want to" do so) the individual has which causes the individual to decline a professional diagnosis unless the individual wishes to gain a tangible governmental or professional benefit from such a diagnosis (but that is a condition of the government or profession, not a condition of the individual or me).

Which means you also accept hypochondria, Munchausens etc

AspieUtah wrote:

If the individual wishes to self-medicate or self-treat invasively, I would understand that there is almost nothing I could do to prevent that beyond well-intentioned advice.

Quite. Note the distinction between well-intentioned and informed.

AspieUtah wrote:

After all, such individuals will do what they do with or without laws, regulations, policies or friendly advice.

Do you have any statistics to support this beyond supposition?

sonicallysensitive
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12 Dec 2014, 8:35 pm

starkid wrote:

Then we could create a test to determine who is capable of self-validating for the capability of self-diagnosing. :!:

That's too funny.

Turtles all the way down!! !

AspieUtah
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12 Dec 2014, 8:45 pm

sonicallysensitive wrote:

AspieUtah wrote:

Which equates to using the parts of the medical process that suit, and dismissing the parts that don't suit?

AspieUtah wrote:

Which means you also accept hypochondria, Munchausens etc

AspieUtah wrote:

If the individual wishes to self-medicate or self-treat invasively, I would understand that there is almost nothing I could do to prevent that beyond well-intentioned advice.

Quite. Note the distinction between well-intentioned and informed.

AspieUtah wrote:

After all, such individuals will do what they do with or without laws, regulations, policies or friendly advice.

Do you have any statistics to support this beyond supposition?

I believe strongly in the free will of every individual. If there are conditions under which a more professional diagnosis is warranted (such as my example of a resultant governmental or professional benefit being provided), I support it. However, self-diagnosis, self-awareness or self-identification is still a liberty that individuals have. I support it in every case where the individual chooses to exercise it.

I won't answer your comments or questions about your interpretation of my words to support children diagnosing themselves or supporting hypochondria because any reasonable interpretation would conclude otherwise, and I don't waste my time on others' arguments of the extreme. Thank you especially for attacking my words as "pre-medieval" and "witch doctor territory." You prove my point.

NiceCupOfTea
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12 Dec 2014, 9:15 pm

AspieUtah wrote:

I have Crohn's disease. In nearly five years of posting on a Crohn's forum, I don't think I've seen one person 'self-diagnose' or 'self-identify' themselves with this crappy disease. Millions of people with abdominal pain and diarrhoea could theoretically diagnose themselves with Crohn's disease; what's to stop them? Why don't they?

Our gut feeling (as it were) that something is wrong is usually correct; our interpretation of what is wrong may be very far off the mark. I don't see why I'm expected to be sceptical of one set of people (the professionals) and the exact opposite with another set (the self-diagnosed).

sonicallysensitive
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12 Dec 2014, 9:59 pm

AspieUtah wrote:

I believe strongly in the free will of every individual.

You seem to be viewing someone's lack of entitlement/ability to diagnose themselves as autistic as a violation of free will.

AspieUtah wrote:

If there are conditions under which a more professional diagnosis is warranted (such as my example of a resultant governmental or professional benefit being provided), I support it.

As do I.

AspieUtah wrote:

However, self-diagnosis, self-awareness or self-identification is still a liberty that individuals have. I support it in every case where the individual chooses to exercise it.

I don't believe your three terms are synonymous, so can't agree or disagree.

AspieUtah wrote:

I won't answer your comments or questions about your interpretation of my words to support children diagnosing themselves or supporting hypochondria because any reasonable interpretation would conclude otherwise,

Are you saying your own view is an unreasonable interpretation?

AspieUtah wrote:

and I don't waste my time on others' arguments of the extreme.

The effective age of self-diagnosis is not an extreme diversion but key to the self-diagnosis model.

AspieUtah wrote:

Thank you especially for attacking my words as "pre-medieval" and "witch doctor territory."

A very fair observation of your dismissal of the medical profession.

AspieUtah wrote:

You prove my point.

Which point?

It's a very important question that has been raised: at what age would you be comfortable with the efficacy of self-diagnosis?

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12 Dec 2014, 10:05 pm

NiceCupOfTea wrote:

Fair analysis! Well, I would say that professional diagnosticians hold themselves out as the final word on diagnosing their chosen specialties. As such, when they act in ways that are misfeasant or malfeasant, we expect the degree of punishment to be commensurate with the violation of professional and public trust.

Even if an individual diagnoses himself or herself with and ASD in ways that are similarly mistaken or wrong, there is no violation of professional and public trust because no such trust was ever established or imposed. The victim is the perpetrator. In other words, the worst that would normally happen is that the self-diagnosed individual realizes the mistake, shrugs and never mentions it again.

So, I do see a significant difference in what professional diagnosticians do by diagnosing others, and those individuals who choose to go it alone and do the best that they can by diagnosing themselves. The crux of both examples is what happens when the diagnosis is wrong. In the former example, a lot could happen; in the latter, not much unless the self-diagnosed individual hires a lawyer to sue himself or herself.

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