Social Skills Training for Adults

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I "get" the whole concept of not giving anyone instant respect. I also get the concept of imposing gifts and have even taught all my friends and accquainanes to not do this. BUT those concepts do not translate to ODD for me...

Again, I am sorry but I just don't "do" this sort of defeatist negativity. If your life is so miserable that there is not one thing to be grateful for and taking it is neither painful nor scary then why are you here? Why not take your life and be done with it already? Please do not answer these questions here. I really cannot help or understand due to the flawed logic. I also don't see that this ranting has relevance to this thread given my inability to comprehend the logic/emotions...

I tried so hard in my previous post to remember something (so, the harder I tried...the farther it went away) Later this morning I realized what it is:

AUTHORITY & RESPONSIBLITY...they go hand in hand. If someone is unable to handle the responsibility, then they (by default) are under anothers authority. That's the long & the short of it...just like how I said a newborn has no way to handle the responsibilities a newborn has, it WILL have someone in authority over it.

Louise18 - wow. I'm sorry for the life you must have led to bring you to this point of anger and cynacism. It definitely sounds as if the most important people in your life have failed you in a major way. My own parents were far from perfect but, after their deaths, I found it easy to forgive them their faults. Everybody has them. And, at least, my mother tried her best with the tools she had available to her.

As a mom, I totally disagree with you. It is my responsibility to teach my child, even more so since she's Aspie. It doesn't give me the right to lord over my child like a dictator and impinge on her human rights but it also does not relieve me of the responsiblity I chose to assume in bringing her into this world. I have the authority to direct my child when she is too immature to safely make decisions on her own. She relies on me to be there for her in this capacity while she learns to navigate the world on her own. To suggest that a child should have the authority to raise themselves just baffles me. I give my daughter that right and she'll eat nothing but chocolate ice cream and watch youtube all day.

kfisherx - Ignorance is bliss. They are trying to solve a problem without even knowing what the problem really is... it is incredibly frustrating. I'm not sure they can even grasp the concept that communicating with other people is for THEIR comfort, not ours. I know my main issues are simply energy related. It takes a big wind up for me to be social, it takes concerted, focused attention to stay in a conversation, especially one I have no desire to be in and no matter how pleasant. informative or friendly a conversation was, I'm glad when it's over because I'm exhausted and just want to crawl inside my head for awhile to recharge. I realize communication is necessary - it is their world that we live in - but that doesn't mean that easier communication will solve the core issue... many of us are only commuincating because we have to, not because we want to. Making it easier won't make it more desirable in many cases. I'm sure many will also welcome the assistance but that core of understanding needs to be there.

While you know I agree with your thinking and approaches I'm not so sure I agree with " I do not have to Language in their way." I do not think we shouldn't HAVE to language in their way but I sincerely doubt that the NT population will adapt so thoroughly to the 1 -2% of the population that does not communicate in the way that they do. To a large extent I think we do need to language their way. We smile wide at each other and people take it as a sign of happiness. Smile wide at a gorilla at the zoo and you'll piss him off because it is a sign on aggression. Just like the Dog Whisperer analogy you made, to an extent, I think we do need to try and be NT Whisperers - learn to speak their language. BUT I also believe that the segment of the medical community that has decided to make autism their priority - they DO need to learn to be Autism Whisperers. They need to unlearn all the things that they have taken for granted - all those preprogrammed social responses most of them do not even realize they have, express or utilize.

That is no small feat.

The assumption that deep down, all autistics would like to be more social, would be happier and more productive with more interaction - not necessarily so. Some do - from what I've been seeing. It is mainly the higher functioning Aspies that desire this, many of them young, at that social age. I think I know NT social skills well enough - it amuses me, it pisses me off, if baffles me and it feels disingenuine and false... but I can do it. It makes me feel as if I'm sacrificing my values and integrity to do it at times. Being able to pass for NT hasn't made my life any easier. It's just made me more exhausted and reluctant to socialize. There is alot to juggle for a simple conversation. They need to get THAT.

They need to really understand what the 'blank slate' in social skills really means. They need to learn how to pare down their own behavior to the most basic fundamental levels.

The hospital gown analogy is cute but I put it more basically than that when it comes to 'get to know you'. What do you do when you meet a strange dog? If you run right up and start ruffling a dogs ears and get in his face - you don't know what you'll get. You might get happy waggy tail and kisses or you might get yourself a trip to the ER with half a face. Before you touch a strange dog, you let him sniff your hand. He'll let you know which kinda dog he is and even then, it is best to preceed with caution until you are certain.

Glad you are feeling better and are back on track!

You and I are saying the exact thing.... When I said, I need to Language in their Language, I meant I need to figure out a way to make them understand everything we are saying about communication/social interaction and how it affects me. At the extreme ends, THEY get a "thrill" from it. I get exhausted. That doesn't mean I do not enjoy talking to some people, sometimes. BUT it takes away from me to do so. I think even the more high functioning of us are affected by socialization. You and I (and some others) are simply more aware of how it affects us. To be honest, I was not aware of this until after my Father's death when I found myself crashing over and again. (shutting down) NOW, this awareness is super critical to my being. Somehow I have to find the right "words" that can help this NT community GET that. They cannot make the connection anymore than I could make the connection RE "getting to know you".

I like the "dog" analogy except that it doesn't help me to "feel" what is going on. It only gives me a reference from the dog's perspective. With the hospital gown analogy, it gives me a way to actually take the other person's perspective. I picture how awkward it would feel for me to not be given the chance to put on the gown before an exame. I would just be standing there exposed. The end result is the same but with the gown, I feel better. Not logical, simply emotional. THIS is the feeling that they get when they meet face to face and ask these seemingly pointless questions. It isn't because they disrespect me or my time. BIG learning for me.

This ^^^ 1000%. You can be a "victim" to this life, or you can take responsibility and be empowered. I chose responsibility.

Expecting to be grateful or not grateful for one's existence seems a strange notion to me; one merely 'is'. As an extension to this, being grateful for the continuing support both material and non-material from parents is unnecessary, since most parents will do so out of love and a natural instinct to do so. If however, they are using this as a tool to cause guilt and gain leverage then I agree that they are unfair to do so.

I do find your overall attitude to life inexplicable. With such negativity and pessimism then your future can never be anything other than a misery. We are all dealt our hand in life, some better and some worse, but it's all we have and nobody else can change that but ourselves. I can't say my life is great either; I've sought happiness all my life but never really achieved it. But I have to keep on trying, as I'm over halfway done in this world statistically speaking and I'm determined to find some happiness before the end.

This is really the key for me. That we are victims that need to be helped. I know everything I need to know to interact socially. I have all the skills and knowledge, I just execute poorly. It's a natural clumsiness that cannot be trained out of me due to defects in the physical structure of my brain. More than all that though, I've begun to understand that the I derive no particular enjoyment from interacting with others and in fact is detrimental to my health. I reached a point where I almost broke. I simply could not maintain 'normal' behaviour any longer.

My point was a fairly simple one: that there are perfectly legitimate reasons for behaving in a way that some people would call bratish and the psychiatric profession would call ODD, and it is simply a difference of temperament and philosophy, and consequently there is probably nothing you can do about it. I was attempting to answer 1) why some children are like this and 2) suggest that there is probably very little you can do about it.

Also you misread my post: I said that suicide is painful and difficult, which is why I am here

I am quite happy to discuss my philosophy on children and will answer the other comments addressed to me via pm so as not to derail this thread. If you do not want to discuss further, don't respond to the PM and I will drop it.

I chose responsibility too. That's why I don't recognize authority

Yeah, DITTO...me, too.

Also the flip side of that is true: It frustrates the FROCK (if I may use that term, kfisherx) out of NTs that I don't live to be with other people, socialize, and be in a "relationship" - AS IF that's the ONLY way to be happy

The biggest part of it is that I don't know HOW to...

The other part of it is that I'm tired of trying

Yeah, I get this as well. And I don't know how to and am tired of trying. Or rather - I am specifically tired of trying to do something that felt more like an obligation and an external expectation than something I actually need.

I mentioned to my mother that I could not imagine or sympathize with the idea of "I am unable to have a relationship" as being such a terrible problem, and she immediately tried to convince me that it was really a horrible fate, equal to any of the other problems I mentioned. I do find this downright peculiar, as I simply can't see where she's coming from and I don't really care to. The whole thing feels much more trivial to me than it does for most apparently, and I am okay with that.

I think that I "am" able to have relationships. My daughters and I are best buddies (always have been), I have other friends that I have had for 20 or more years. People generally like me. That doesn't equate to I NEED to have people around me all the time or even that I view relationships the same way as they do......

Thankfully my 40 acre private cabin in the woods awaits me when I get home every night...

I have relationships, too. I just can't deal with having someone "special" or with having kids. Neither of those situations will end well - especially the former which could turn ugly and/or violent on my part

And to think - I said I never had a meltdown before

I meant romantic relationships. I do have friends and I get along with much of my immediate family. For some reason I use "relationship" primarily to mean "romantic relationships" which I don't really need or want.

Oh!! ! Yes, those... yeah, so uh.... Epic fail for me too. I did try but it there is just no return on investment (ROI) for me from a logical perspective. For some reason my partners always complained that they felt I liked my computer more than them.... I never really knew what to say to that. It shocked me that they would even think that they were more cherished than my osbession or that it would even be an issue that I would like something more than them. LOL! OMG, if I had only a clue that I was autistic, I would have just stayed single and not put other people through the paces like I did.

No romantic relationship would mean no physical relationship and before very long I'd be going craazzzyyyy