Aspergers Bringing Out The Worst In People

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AmberEyes

I'm sure you learned some important aspects of communication in some of the classes. Also, I'm like you. I can give a presentation better than I can socialize, except I don't do many gestures when presenting something. I also find it easier if I talk to children than adults (not teens, man I once gave a presentation to high school students on taxes, and it was awful).

Anyway, I really want to develop some helpful therepeutic type videos/powerpoint slides for Asperger people. I posted my idea once on the WP website specific something or other forum. I didn't get much responses. Anyway, I don't have much time to devote to this large task just yet, but I'm trying to feel out some research right now. One thing I will need to hit on is communication (amongst many other topics). I'm sure while you did learn some good things in your communication classes, I'm almost sure most of it was useless to a person on the spectrum.

In my speech class, they tell you about the speaking and listening, and basically teach you to assume the other person is a good listener. Well, that's not always the case. Some people don't listen well at all. People like me tend to either talk off the top of my head not paying too much attention to what i'm saying, and then sometimes word it so carefully that every noun and verb was specially chosen for purposes of what I'm trying to say. Sometimes I amaze myself at the way I articulated a point, and still people misunderstand it. So I believe that communication isn't all about what you say as much as what people hear. They skim conversations. Most people don't listen word for word. While I can't control what other people do, I can control how I say something so that they hear the key points. Sometimes on here when my thoughts are better organized, I'll bold face my key points that I want heard. I don't do that when I talk. I will probably start another thread on this, and just so you know to look for it, it will probably be called, "I could get people to listen to me better if I..." I'm starting to think of a list and I'm sure many could add to it. Like if I could A, organize my thoughts better B, get to the point C, change my tone of voice to be slightly louder on the key points etc.

On the things that can't be helped, yes there are many things that I don't think we can help like making our pupils dialate. I want to learn more about what eyes say about people, and how people naturally read eyes. Once on this forum someone linked to a test (on Aspergers too) where the questions showed a face, and you were supposed to say what emotion that person was experiencing (multiple choice actually). Aspies are supposed to be lousy at it, and I was very lousy with it. But I want to find the science to it and figure out what is expression (something we can control) and what is not (things we can't control). I really think I set off the wrong vibe with these "expressions." Some people get passed it, and others don't. My friends don't care if I react correctly with my face. Sometimes they think it's funny that I don't react like when a bar fight breaks out in front of me and I just have a blank look on my face and then walk through it like it's annoying rather than looking surprised or afraid. But like in my case of this evil landlord from hell, many times he was making me angry, and I'm sure he had no idea he was ticking me off. To this guy, I am unpredictable because he didn't see any warning signs with me, and nobody trusts anything they can't predict.

Either way, biologically, we naturally do things and naturally don't do things that isn't construed as normal. It doesn't mean it can't all be controlled or not controlled. Some things we can consciously think about and do (such as cutting back on monologues). A lot of it we first need to figure out what we should be doing. Some things are obvious, the rest is open for theory. Anyway, it's something I plan on researching in the next year or so.

Tantybi, don't blame it on bad luck. In this way you will end up always having bad luck. This is my personal theory. I apply it a lot, raising my children for example. My babies ate well and slept well. This is because their mom did not believe in having luck, but thought of the practical reasons they were not doing these things.

Try to make some fixed points in your life (job, house, health), the rest is fancy stuff.

My husband says that if someone is looking on facts regarding myself I am 100% functional NT (school, determination, what I achieved). The only condition is not to open my mouth

I feel bullied by NTs a lot, because they don't quite understand what it's like to be an Aspie. Or, since I have learned to live with this undiagnosed for so many years, I have somehow learned to "appear" normal to people. And when I tell them I have been officially diagnosed, they don't believe me. What can I do? My own family doesn't believe me, or, that since maybe they do, they're using it against me.

The teachers were very good actually: these took place in the English/Media department.

In my last post, I didn't mean to come across as overtly negative, just to point out some of the issues that I feel were inadvertently omitted from communication courses.

Perhaps, they were just blissfully unaware of the notion that someone could have difficulty chatting/cooperating socially in a group, considering that they had to calm down the noisy classes most of the time!

Perhaps, they didn't notice the "quiet ones" so much.
Though they couldn't understand how I could be verbally articulate when asked a question, yet at the same time, have difficulty contributing to a group discussion or getting into a group.

In general, it tends to be the really verbally articulate that specialise in teaching subjects like English, so perhaps understandably, it's difficult for them to fathom how someone could ever run out of words to say in a conversation!

Likewise, many social skills groups are probably run by socially astute females with the "gift of the gab", who again, may be blissfully unaware of the "difficulties" some of their students may be having due to their mental wiring. So they may get frustrated with how their students "aren't getting it". They may also be less open to the ideas non-conformity or alternative approaches/cultures/subcultures/creeds.

Is it strange to consider a bar fight braking out in front of you to be annoying??
Or does that mean that you actually are afraid, but don't show it?

I'm sorry, I know that's a little off-topic. I just had this mental image of going out to drink and relax, maybe having gotten a babysitter for your kids and all so you could have a break, and suddenly a couple of a**holes in the bar start fighting.. annoyance seemed, to me, like a perfectly reasonable reaction.

cosmiccat, thank you for your kind words, I really appreciate them. It's not often that I get any appreciation from people, on the contrary, it's all rejection, ridicule, outcasting...

Tantybi,

I always have to double check with you two, because the usernames look very similar to me, and though I keep reminding myself to double check, this time I really blundered. And to think you two have opposite personalities!

I did imagine we had similar upbringing maps. It was the same with my sister. Your paragraph about your family constellation could've been written by me word by word.

The issue of boundaries is extremely difficult for Aspies. As we've discussed lately on a thread (I don't remember the title, sadly), it's practically impossible for Aspies to set boundaries, because when we do, we get people angry because we don't know how to do it in the socially acceptable way. So we often live alternating between being doormats so we can socialize, and being seen as aggressive. I agree that a thread on boundaries would be a very good idea.

Funny that you too see our investment in WP as "playing" like me, when actually we know it's (a lot more effective than) therapy.

AmberEyes wrote:

Your questions examining the word 'communication', are really important , not at all negative .

It is this type of questioning that is needed because 'communication' like the word 'personality' are so loaded by context and intent of each participant.

The issue of boundaries is extremely difficult for us because we sense boundaries much different than NT
to me it is very clear since we also percieves space and time much different than the current norm and time and space are the building blocks of bounderies
for instance
to place another human needs before your needs is not a sign of low self esteem but the oposite
it is a sign of mature,well balanced,well integrated personality
if every one in the world would put the the others needs at his first priority we would live in heaven
literally heaven,no hunger,no pain,no death, just endless love and creativity for all
NT can't see it because they wired to see only the shortest consequences and have no memory to remind them that what goes up must come down
hence they gloat when they win or cheat or ridicule the other but when in trouble they would be cry the loudest and would steep to any level to appeal to the goodness in others
I've seen it happening around me countless times
we bring the worst in normal people and we never get a real chance to live fully and express our love freely because the norm is built around self centered,egotistical moron who posses almost no consciousness
it is really doesn't matter how assertive you will be because the way society build now means u just have to act like the people u hate and by doing so u will destroy your true identity and capabilities
we bring the worst in people because we are nice,smart,considerate,caring individuals and that enough provide more the enough for the average NT to do every thing he can to destroy us
to the average NT the mere presence of someone who is able to love and feel is too much
first they try to control you and when they fails the will do anything they can to make u miserable
the presence of well integrated person will bring to surface the contradictions in an unbalanced person
hence the "bad luck"(some how my bad luck and my bad health and my depressions ended mysteriously since i ceased all connections with NT)
it's a very dark picture i paint here and i know most people would do anything in order to ignore it
but just read this forum and others like that and connect the dots
the voice is quite clear

That's all very true in my opinion, but precisely because of it we have to take very good care of ourselves, have our own boundaries very clear within us and not let them get away with abuse just because we don't have it clear what our rights are and where theirs end. Precisely because of what you mention, I'm very firm with people and don't let them get away with the tiniest thing. I can't afford it, seeing as for them to destroy a limpid soul like mine is a holy war.

Let's make it clear now that NT is a trait and not people. I don't want any group of people being insulted on this thread or we will lose this valuable conversation in BS.

Second, not all Aspies are the people you make them out to be. All people are capable of both light and darkness. I do think Aspies are more apt to not work from a similar darkness as what is considered NT because Aspies don't always understand the benefits of it (short term or long term).

But the person you described as Aspie is Jesus Christ, and what happened to him? He got crucified. I guess at some point, anyone who places their morals above success risk being persecuted, and it almost requires faith to believe in their resurrection. So the trick might not be to prevent it, but to rise above it. To resurrect. It is another way to look at this situation. We just have to rise above these situations rather than allowing them to drag us down.


Sorry to those who don't believe in Jesus. I just think we can learn from His story. I often empathize with the whole concept of persecution...hmmm.

I usually find bar fights annoying with dudes. Cat fights (chics), on the other hand, are pretty amusing...lol. Anyway, I'm not usually scared, just annoyed that they would break out into a fight in front of me. I am starting to be able to spot the fights before they actually take place, and sometimes I see one about to break out and then it diffuses somehow. Some dudes look like they are about to fight, but then they are just kidding. I tend to move my circle of friends where I'm closer to the possible fight so that they don't get hurt. Kinda feels wrong when I move dudes around to protect them, but what the heck right?

I didn't really think you were being negative as much as analytical, but I figured just in case, I'd try to point out more positives. Either way, I don't think those communication classes have AS/ASD people in mind when they create the curriculum. I really don't think some of the therapy they provide for AS/ASD people have AS/ASD people in mind either.

But since,like you, they have no choice or say in how they are wired your holy war might escalate to an all out jihad,
do you really want to waste your life,and others, by trying to fix or avenge any little wrong done to you,
being an aspie in an society that runs by NT rules and perception is guaranteed to keep u very bussy with things that are not really relevant to your life
things that wouldn't help u get it better will drag u down
i always forgive but i never forget

I always tend to sound like an a**hole, or seem rude. I'll get irritated at someone's stupidity, and correct them. Tonight at Bingo this girl was asking which way horizontal was, and saying, "Isn't it up and down?" so I yelled out "Horizon!" and moved my hand to indicate it.

I know that not all aspies are nice
at least not NT nice, and many of us have quite a few reason to be at least a little dark
but i was referring to the collective voice of this site
the "statistical" voice i inferred from the many posts here listing opinions and attitudes and events and thoughts that echoed my core identity
and I'm not Jesus Christ and the lesson we have to learn from his crucifixion is how futile and dangerous the attempt to educate the NT can be
"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces."
this why i prefer to shut up,turn around and go away on any other approach as i don't feel like rising above or pretend to be holy
and that's why i have no problem in insulting the NT when they deserve it
I'm not nice,I'm a person
i try to live good by the way fitting my standards, feelings and senses and to avoid bad people and look for good people ,
that's all
Many NT in the past told me how too good and Jesus like i'm so i guess all i need is to be with someone who wouldn't get what is natural for me as Holiness or too good to be true(heard it 10000 times,u r the 10001) but just see it as a natural,logical and pretty much normal way of existence
i posted this comment as i thought it is relevant to the thread and open up some what broader view of the subject
this approach inevitably leads to some generalizations and in the past led me to be lynched in almost any site i posted to
but i feel is is not BS and sometimes things have to said
even at the price of sounding a little harsh

I made the comment about clarifying the AS vs NT thing becuase I've seen good threads get destroyed on this site (frequently lately) because people start to claim a "hate speech" when it isn't actually there. I knew what you were saying. I agree most Aspies on this site (not all of them, but most) approach life from the best of intentions and it shows in their actions. I also agree that the neurotypical mentality seems to be more forgiving of their own nature and less forgiving of others (and that neurotypical mentality can be accessed from the Aspie mind just like it's neurotypical to blink). I keep making these clarifications because I just don't want anyone getting insulted for their own sake as well as sake of this thread.

I wasn't referring to the Aspie in your post to be you. If that was you, you also described how I feel a lot. Most people don't compare me to Jesus because I was either around Baptists growing up (and I believe they'd be the first to condemn Christ if He were here today) or around people who don't go to church much. But most people try to tell me I'm too nice on a regular basis, and as a result, I get taken advantage of.

I was overly nice to the girl who threatened to stab me with her fork out of the blue, and I think she only did that because she was vicious and saw me as an easy target, that was until I was ready to take it outside explaining to her that she can take the fork with her because she's going to need it. I mentioned her a little earlier, but long story short, this girl threatened to stab me with her fork for no apparent reason, and I come to find out she lost her job at the FBI soon after the incident because her boyfriend is a criminal, and he's playin her for the fool she is. So, once upon a time, I was mad at her, and now, I pity her.

Anyway, I'm just saying we can still learn from Jesus's story. I know we are mere men and women and are incapable of the goodness of Jesus Christ in this life, but Jesus did set an example for us, and if you are religious, then He is a leader, and He leads by example. In that sense, there might be better ways of looking at our situations. I agree that there are things I could do to prevent my "bad luck." But I need to be careful at what cost. For instance, the girl that threatened to stab me with a fork. She might of actually followed through on it if I weren't so nice to her, even after she was being mean, and then she'd sue me for all the damages I did to her, and then I'd really be in a mess. Could you imagine if I got into a brawl with an FBI employee? No instead, I walked away from the situation, ready to defend if necessary and hold my ground, but it wasn't necessary to defend myself and I walked away because I didn't egg it on out of self defense or embarrassment. In doing the right thing, I got to rise above the situation by walking away from it. At that time, i could only have faith that was in my better interest to do the right thing even though it didn't appear to be. I was angry at myself at first for not dragging the girl outside and making her walk the walk since she felt the need to talk the talk. But now I realize that it was in my better interest to do the right thing because I had more to lose than just a fight, and it would have been a lose lose situation for me if I did get into a fight.

That example is what I mean by rising above the situation or resurrecting. When we continue to do what we think is the right thing, we somehow always manage to rise above these situations in the end. You can look at it that God has a Way to fight our battles for us, or you can look at it like that's the way love goes (love being the way we approach life from our light), or C'est la vie. The best thing about this approach, you don't have to have amazing people skills. Like you can be lousy at a lot of the parenting stuff, but as long as you love your kids with all your heart and try to do what's best for them, you will end up being a better parent somehow than you could ever imagine. In that same way, as long as we don't lose sight of our own values, we will be better off than okay.

So, in my way, I'm trying to find ways to prevent causing problems with people and my life, and that's a good thing as long as I approach it from my adult where it's about function and independence, and not from my child (where it would be about revenge and getting my way). I should still be able to rise above situations when they occur and hopefully, decrease the occurrance of the situations. The main thing is that when bad things do happen, I shouldn't let them drag me down. I should have faith that God has a Plan rather than lose hope and fall in depression. I should recognize my strengths rather than blame my weaknesses. I should be doing productive things toward a solution rather than self destructing in a pool of my own self pity. I should also learn from these experiences and move on rather than looking back and turning bitter (pillar of salt). That's how I can resurrect. Anyone can knock me down and bury me, but best believe I won't stay there, nor will I dig a deeper hole anymore.