"Self diagnosis" trends...source of ridicule

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leejosepho
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11 Oct 2009, 12:09 pm

ShogunSalute wrote:
The 'battle' to have Aspergers officially recognised as a medical condition and fully accepted as part of the Autism spectrum (which at the moment it isn't) and to fight off all the stigmas that have developed over the past 10+ years through this mass diagnosis of the condition by both qualified and unqualified people ...
I guess we are trying to give people with AS the 'ramps' that are provided for people in wheelchairs. But to do this, we need to prove ourselves, to prove ourselves we need this condition to be no longer seen as a sham and a big joke, which it is.


Your efforts there are commendable, imo, but then people will soon make matters even worse while chasing after all the related "property and prestige" (money and power) ... just like has happened with alcoholism and pregnancy. The "solution" for the troubles of autism are to be found within the protection of human community, not via legislation.


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ShogunSalute
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11 Oct 2009, 12:27 pm

Many reasons. When this all started (the 'project' I'm involved in) there was a massive call out for Autistcs of all levels of the spectrum of all genders and ages to participate. The number of people who came forward who were self-diagnosed as Aspergers far outweighed the people who turned up who did have a diagnosis for AS. And there were NO people who came forward claiming self-diagnosis for any other ASDs, this is a phenomenon specific to Aspergers. Some research was done on this. It was found that not only do people massively self-diagnose this condition, but they seek medical attention and benefits as if they HAVE sought professional advice. They join AS support groups, or HFA support groups (one of which I run) and tell their stories (often to parents of children with AS who are looking for hope). I have actually seen someone come to an AS support group with an 'idea' of what AS should look like, when they came to the group and saw that nobody was like that, she came back the next week with the 'appropriate' behaviors that the diagnosed AS people exhibited, just like magic. I have seen over and over people that have self-diagnosed and then try to get the real thing by faking their way psychiatric evaluation, sometimes it works and false information is entered into the system which doesn't help anyone or anything. It has become obvious that people desire to be labeled as having Asperger's knowing this now, it is hard to tell how much of the data that has been accumulated (more specifically when it comes to Adult patients) what is factual and what is the product of someones desires. People with AS are a minority that have special needs, but all this self-diagnosis is detracting from that, and AS is becoming more of a 'popular' 'majority' thing, which requires no special circumstances. People who are self-diagnosed can shout just as loudly about their condition, if not louder than people that are actually affected, but when people look at them they do not see any of the crippling symptoms that actuall AS sufferers have to endure, therefore AS is seen to be a lot less tolerable to live with than it actually is. Alot of these people, the 'fakers' have taken part in AS studies in the past, information has come about from that which is now considered to be unreliable because of the realisation that many participants were self-diagnosed and many most likely didn't have the condition. People who are self-diagnosed often forget that they might be wrong about their conclusions and offer people advice that works for them (and whatever condition they actually DO have) and then when the actual AS sufferer takes this advice, it can be detrimental, though, in all honestly, this can happen between to diagnosed people as well, but it seems worse that self-diagnoses people would put this upon others when they do not know that what is working for them is working for AS or something else they have. And I could go on and on and on, but I think that's enough for now, happy to elaborate if you need.



Blindspot149
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11 Oct 2009, 12:36 pm

ShogunSalute wrote:
People who are self-diagnosed can shout just as loudly about their condition, if not louder than people that are actually affected,

Alot of these people, the 'fakers' have taken part in AS studies in the past,



So, people who are self diagnosed are never actually affected and are fakers :?:

Ok, well at least nobody could accuse you of generalizing :arrow:



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11 Oct 2009, 12:36 pm

OK thanks-I have some things to say but I've got to mull over it a bit.



ShogunSalute
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11 Oct 2009, 12:39 pm

Blindspot149 wrote:
ShogunSalute wrote:
People who are self-diagnosed can shout just as loudly about their condition, if not louder than people that are actually affected,

Alot of these people, the 'fakers' have taken part in AS studies in the past,



So, people who are self diagnosed are never actually affected and are fakers :?:

Ok, well at least nobody could accuse you of generalizing :arrow:


Oh no not at all, I'd say the majority of people who have well researched the subject and fit the current DSM criteria 100% are afflicted by AS, I just think they should get an opinion besides their own before applying for benefits or intruding on a group.



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11 Oct 2009, 12:49 pm

ShogunSalute wrote:
Blindspot149 wrote:
ShogunSalute wrote:
People who are self-diagnosed can shout just as loudly about their condition, if not louder than people that are actually affected,

Alot of these people, the 'fakers' have taken part in AS studies in the past,



So, people who are self diagnosed are never actually affected and are fakers :?:

Ok, well at least nobody could accuse you of generalizing :arrow:


Oh no not at all, I'd say the majority of people who have well researched the subject and fit the current DSM criteria 100% are afflicted by AS, I just think they should get an opinion besides their own before applying for benefits or intruding on a group.



Dear ShogunSalute,

We seem to have hit your real agenda.

1. I have not 'applied for benefits' from a Government or any other body; I pay my own way for EVERYTHING (including my daugher's special needs assistance and occupational therapy)

2. I havent 'intruded on a group' (unless you mean that I am intruding here......and we can run a poll for that..........this is the ONLY AS social interaction I have in the entire world.

In both cases I would challenge your information that leads to these two conclusions.

This seems delusional :!:


I do find these two statements offensive and frankly childish, but I will not report you to a Moderator.

I want this to remain posted so that others can see you for what you are;



leejosepho
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11 Oct 2009, 1:02 pm

Blindspot149 wrote:
Dear ShogunSalute,

We seem to have hit your real agenda ...


No, not as some folks might be perceiving it. It has not been suggested that all self-diagnosed Aspies are even thinking of scamming anyone.


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ShogunSalute
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11 Oct 2009, 1:02 pm

A big fat "HUH?" My agenda? I don't have an agenda! Someone asked my how self-diagnosis hinders advancements in AS, and I answered the question. These answers only partly come from my personal experience, most of it is information I have learned from work. My answer to this question had NOTHING to do with you or anyone on this forum, if you chose to take it personally, that is your error, not mine. You can not challenge my information because it is not mine, it is the facts that have been gathered. But it has nothing to do with you, I do not care about what you do or how you pay for anything.



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11 Oct 2009, 1:15 pm

Your first post lest we forget:

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ShogunSalute
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 11:06 pm Post subject: new forum Reply with quote
hello, i'm new. but i have read alot of topics and posts here. i am wondering, is there a sub-forum, or could there be a sub-forum only for people who have been professionally diagnosed? it makes me feel sick on the inside to read posts by self-diagnosed people and people who treat this like a special club rather than a disorder. AS is glorified here alot. it's so pathetic. i just want to talk to people like myself. can there please be a forum just for people who actually have AS for sure? i hate this feeling of not knowing whether someone really has the disorder or just liked the idea of having it. no offence to anyone who is like this, i know you must just want to fit in somewhere.


Have any of the long discussions that have ensued altered your view?



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11 Oct 2009, 1:18 pm

I suppose I should confess, I did not write that post. (Edit: To clarify, it was written by a 16 year old, one of the people who bought this forum to my attention, this is actually his account that he made).



wildgrape
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11 Oct 2009, 1:21 pm

ShogunSalute wrote

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Some research was done on this. It was found that not only do people massively self-diagnose this condition, but they seek medical attention and benefits as if they HAVE sought professional advice.


Since you are apparently engaged in a battle for accurate diagnoses, you will appreciate the profound potential impact of that research. If it was truly undertaken, I have no doubt that it would be published. Could you please provide a link.



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11 Oct 2009, 1:28 pm

Nothing relating to what I am involved in has been published yet, we are just in the early stages and haven't even finshed primary interviews yet. But I'm sure you could find information on something similar somewhere online, there's this thing called 'google', you should check it out, it's good for finding things. I will also ask one of my bosses if there's anything on the net or print relating to this for you if you are interested and let you know. But if you are not interested and just trying to make me look the fool by asking me to provide links to something, then when I can not, you jump up and call me a liar, let me know because I will not bother asking for this information for you.



bhetti
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11 Oct 2009, 1:36 pm

ShogunSalute wrote:
I suppose I should confess, I did not write that post. (Edit: To clarify, it was written by a 16 year old, one of the people who bought this forum to my attention, this is actually his account that he made).
you realize that the only way to have a forum for people with AS "for sure" is to exclude a great number of people who have AS but can't afford an assessment, are denied a dx because the only medical professionals they have access to are hacks, and/or can't afford the travel to get to available resources? also a requirement is applying for access with the proper medical paperwork?

perhaps you should explain to this young person that for older people, the services and health providers who are willing and able to dx and assess us are far fewer and far between, so many of us won't ever be "for sure". also worth pointing out to this young person is that for every disorder, there are countless misdiagnosed and undiagnosed cases, so AS is not unique.

a group like this young person wants is likely only possible if provided by a care network for their own clients, and that's still no guarantee that some munchhausen's won't find their way in. maybe someday a good brain map and free fmri's will sort all of this out. in the meantime, a reality check would be appropriate.



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11 Oct 2009, 1:46 pm

Well I did say something similar at first (I more explained about the AS diagnosis being quite new and alot of people here would be quite old and have missed the boat for a proper diagnosis), and I think he tried a few more times to post, then I was told to see for myself, and I did, and, well, all this happened.



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11 Oct 2009, 1:54 pm

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When this all started (the 'project' I'm involved in) there was a massive call out for Autistcs of all levels of the spectrum of all genders and ages to participate. The number of people who came forward who were self-diagnosed as Aspergers far outweighed the people who turned up who did have a diagnosis for AS.


The massive call out did not specify proof of a professional diagnosis? I can understand the frustration,that's a lot of work to go through. Presumably though, those people were weeded out before the actual study was done right?



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11 Oct 2009, 1:55 pm

ShogunSalute wrote:
leejosepho wrote:

What difference does it make? Even if someone like me who does *not* yet know all the facts ultimately proves to have made an incorrect self-diagnosis, what harm will have been done or what harm might follow?


The difference is I might not have Cancer. I might have something else, unless I find out for sure then I will never know. I might end up dying because of my belief in my self-diagnosis. Alot of people that think they have AS actually have other disorders, ones that are far more treatable. By settling for an AS self-diagnosis they are potentially cheating themselves out of a 'better' lifestyle, especially if they have gripes about their symptoms. Once people find AS they do settle for it and discontinue research. AS has an odd sense of whimsy that comes with it. People feel OK with having AS, it is almost a comfort, but they do not feel comfortable with the idea that their problems could be caused by intense childhood trauma (in adults, unresolved trauma presents identically to AS in adults), or other issues. Self-diagnosing pregnancy or alcoholism is an inane and abstruse comparison as these are conditions that have noticable physical attributes. Defining AS in a person is a far more intricate and internal process. I am not against people identifying with AS, I am against them deciding that they have it.


why? what skin is it off of your nose? how does it even concern you that someone else is dealing with AS the way that they can? I don't think you are a fool, I think you are being limited in your understanding of the condition. I don't think you are a liar, I think you have some prejudice against reasonably intelligent people coming to the same conclusions as someone with advanced degrees.
I am not going through the terrible 2's, I am not 7 years old and not playing well with others, I am not 13 and going through a 'phase', I have been an adult for five decades and know myself as well as anyone else ever could.

You resenting something about me that does not really concern you just tells me you enjoy poking your nose into other people's business and deciding what is right for them, if they want that opinion or not.


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