Misconceptions re. re-classifying Asperger's in the DSMV

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Whatever works politically.

Does not sound particularly hard. Nice choice that of Alex "wrongplanet.net" instead of "aspergersforum.net"

that's a cool question.

i guess it could go either way.

with people as high functioning on the same spectrum, it could make people realise that LFAs aren't completely 'absent' like some people assume.

but then they could also start to expect more from people who are lower functioning cause just a few steps up on the spectrum are aspies who (in comparison) do really well with most things.

it will undefine autism anyways once AS is merged, whether that is for better or worse i don't know.

Indeed, what people don't realize now and will lament later is that there's a price to pay for the power in numbers - the price of a nebulous label that applies to all and to none. "Autism" will be therefore interpreted by each stupid clerk in any stupid way that they themselves understand it, and rightly so, since no one will give them any pointers to understand the differences, as it's "all austism". One will call an Aspie mentally ret*d, another will expect an LFA to behave like an Aspie in cognitive functioning, etc. The world should be advancing to an acceptance and celebration of neurodiversity, rather than an undefined pool that labels anyone "neurologically different" autistic. Unfortunately, people are too concerned with personal financial needs to see beyond their nose on this one. The tragedy is that they will see it, only too late.

There is : [cognitive retardation]-[borderline c. retardation] - [low average IQ]-[average]-[higher than average]. This is a continium.

And many aspies are in the "borderline retardation"-"low average IQ" range, not in the "higher than average functioning".




????



Since when?

This sounds reassuring, Callista. I sure have worried about what will happen to us if AS is removed, and I'm not the only one. Are you certain, though? Do you have any link to this information? Please don't take offense, I just need to know.

No, that is why some push for such, and also why some push for the opposite.

Non Autistic peoples’ IQ occurs along a continuum. Why anyone would expect Autistic people to be some magical exception to this I cannot fathom. This nonsense about cognitive retardation etc is just that nonsense. I do not hear you raising this objection to the current classic Kanner category in the DSM even though it encompasses people who cannot be reliably distinguished from those diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome, and even though it includes both the cognitively challenged and the cognitively gifted. What have you done to demonstrate you are less cognitively ret*d than Temple Grandin who happens to be responsible for major changes in an economically significant industry and is on faculty at a university? Just how cognitively ret*d would you presume a published author, academic and respected innovator in a major industry would be?


A young teenaged girl with Kanner type Autism surprised family and physicians by communicating via computer. As she picked up fluency it became very clear that she was not cognitively ret*d as always presumed, that she was in fact quite intelligent and capable of very articulate and fluent communication. Her brain did not switch on overnight, she just learned to communicate on everyone elses’ terms. She made it very clear that she is not aloof, she cares, she wants to be cared about and she is made lonely by her inability to connect to the world. Your characterizations of those with Kanner type Autism are not only wrong, they are dehumanizing and I do not believe they are apolitical for a moment.

It’s not ridiculous given the current information we have to go on and while one day people might look back and believe the current information rudimentary, I doubt anyone using good judgement will view the “spectrum model” as ridiculous at all.

I would not_be happy in such a situation whether or not such measures affected me. If you have knowledge of some plan or development that might make this likely I suggest that doing something to prevent anyone being treated in such a manner is a more urgent or pressing priority than the nosological reasoning reflected in the DSM, unless one is already living in some kind of police state of course, in which case I expect the same restrictions (equal lack of liberty for all) would be applied throughout the population, again without regard for finer details of the DSM.

Wow, this is just too transparent that even as hyperbolic hysterical scare mongering, it’s just too way over the top to credit. Let’s assume that the DSM does require cognitive retardation for an Autistic Disorder diagnosis (it does not, but never mind that for now). Obviously if this category is to be merged with a category that requires (or is designed to require) there not be cognitive retardation with the intent of not excluding anyone who would currently receive one or the other diagnosis, then the new category will necessarily not require cognitive retardation and so schools will have no reason to remove people from classes on the grounds you suggest if the merge goes ahead in the new DSM.

All this is without considering that in any civilized nation decent schools do not treat any student in this manner anyway. No one I know with an Autism diagnosis was summarily removed from a class room they were coping in on the basis of that diagnosis.

I doubt all this hysterical scare mongering is apolitical in nature.


There is currently no consideration before the DSM working group (dealing with the PDD category) that would entail either labeling everyone who currently meets the diagnostic criteria for AS as being cognitively ret*d, nor of excluding them from diagnosis. In fact the proposal that appears most likely to be accepted and voted forward at this stage requires that functioning be assessed in individual domains which will result in more fidelity in measuring functioning level than is currently the case.

I have a similar conclusion for the opposite reason! For someone diagnose in later life: It doesn't really matter where AS goes, as there is no help available.

Perhaps rebranding as 'Autistic' may change that? Is there really that much of an added stigma of being "autistic" rather than "aspergers"? It's not going to make us any more 'unpopular' with the masses than we already are, is it? Maybe the stereotypical perception of "autism" as being more debilitating than "aspergers" may result in the health industry taking adult 'aspergers' problems more seriously than it does at present. It could hardly take them *less* seriously...

Social security covers AS in the US now, and there's a number of job agencies around that find suitable jobs for people with ASDs if they're able to work. There's also assisted living too if you need it. The only thing that people can't really help you with is interpersonal relations.

These things won't go away if the label AS is merged with the others.

The hard-earned ones will go away. Nowadays here, at long last, there are a few companies hiring Aspies for special computer projects. When we have an Autism diagnosis instead of an AS one, we will have to start all over again trying to convince companies that it is good to hire us, this time as Autistics. All the work that was done has to be done again; it'll take years to convince these companies, once again.

However, I'm not talking convenience here, but accurate description of reality. Those hoping for an LFA monthly cheque instead of an AS one don't care for the latter now, but will soon. Today's "good samaritans" are tomorrow's biggest whiners.

Not to mention that a "continuum", to have any seriousness, should include the whole population - NTs as well. AS certainly don't have more in common with LFA than with NT.

That's interesting. In the UK I'm not aware of anything similar. The impression I get from the media here is very much along the stereotypical lines: Aspergers people are presented as 'quirky geniuses' with 'gifts' put poor social skills. As 'help' is very strictly limited and tightly rationed, those with 'gifts' get nothing. Whereas Autism is presented as a much more serious disability with no balancing gifts.

This was certainly the case when I was diagnosed nearly 3 years ago. Both my doctor and psychiatrist made it clear that an AS diagnoses was a purely academic exercise. That help was only available to children and young adults.


Shame. Because at the 'milder' end of the spectrum, this is the maiin problem. It seems hypocritical for the health industry to, on one hand, repeatedly state the known connection between good health and being able to form friendships, relationships and achieve a fulfilling career, yet offer no help to those without these. Too difficult? Or no will? I imagine if there was funding, loads of health professionals would emerge wanting to teach social skills.

It's there for people with AS in the UK, this I know. I mean, disability pensions, group homes (yuck, but hey, better than homeless), and help in finding a job. It's the same here in Oz.

There's nothing that can be done for the social deficits, whether you're mild or severe; you are how you are, and by the time you're a teenager or so, you've learnt pretty much all there is to learn via trial and error; through the learning and use of scripts, deductions/observations of social situations, and ultimately putting the decent memory that most people with AS have to use, but it's still mechanical and fake (as bad as "fake" sounds, I've yet to see it written in text that people with AS have innate social ability and empathy; both of which run counter to it, and the "best cases" I've read report of rote memory to utilize scripts...).

The social deficits are the most evident part of ASDs, whether mild or severe.

The repetitive behaviours can be worked with, but this depends on what they are and how severe they themselves are.

This is indeed the tragedy for people like me. I'm extremely severely impaired in my AS, and I'm just starting to get the help I desperately need, but in a couple years, as an "Autistic" I will be given an "extremely mild" diagnosis, and therefore all help will be removed from me. And rightly so, because compared to LFA I'm extremely mild - no cognitive retardation, no desire to live inside my own head, no language problems, etc. The fact that the social aspect is horrendous has no bearance when compared to LFA, and rightly so. If you put a deaf person and a cancer patient into a same continuum, the deaf will be diagnosed as "very mild" in comparison to the cancer patient, and rightly so, even though he may be totally deaf.

What people don't understand is that we're not about to be called Autistics, but we're about to be called "Very mildly autistic". It will be a very sad day for Aspies, and to see Aspies themselves happy-go-luckily running towards this day is pathetic.

That's true, I just mean that things are so difficult for so many people with AS, that having that concern isn't just selfishness. When you're already constantly singled out and ridiculed, the concept of people having something else against you is a big deal. When you have too much trouble communicating how you feel and what you think in general, it doesn't seem possible to dispel stereotypes. Just to get sucked down into them.

(Of course, getting rid of the name aspergers will also get rid of the initial "ass-burgers" comment.. so who knows.)

The very large problem with that reasoning is that how one feels about social isolation doesn't define the difference between the groups as it stands anyway-- early development does. It's not about how you feel about people, it's about when you started talking.

I'm trying to find a place to start so far as explaining why the rest of what you're saying doesn't make sense, but it doesn't make enough sense to even do that. Gotta agree with pandd about the fear-mongering.

Greentea, would it be far fetched for me to suggest that someone who was genuinely interested in accurate descriptions of reality would take the time to learn if their criticisms and comments were remotely realistic before setting them loose as statements of facts in a thread initiated for the purposes of dispelling misconceptions?