Are you really autistic? my thoughts on this

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i also don't think it's fair that people expect all psychiatrists/chologists to know about ASDs. different psychs study different areas, this is a good thing. if every doctor was an ASD specialist, there would be no help for people with other conditions. and i think it is silly to assume that just because a doctor is not an ASD specialist they shouldn't try and help you. if someone goes to a doctor with symptoms, it is the doctors duty to try and treat those symptoms, and they will attempt to do so to the best of their ability, this is not an error on their part, this is their JOB! their duty. they will not deny you help or a place to go or someone to talk to just because they do not specialize in the condition that they suspect them to have, or the patient suspects themselves to have. if they did deny them care because of this THAT would make them a bad doctor. if people aren't getting anything out of doctors appointments they should discontinue going, or they should take steps to make the most of it (not hard). they should not continue to see a doctor for years on end simply because they are available.

communicating with a professional is only hard if you're trying to accomplish something, such as obtaining the diagnosis of your choice. otherwise it is simply a matter of being yourself and telling the truth. nothing difficult about that. i do know what you mean about doctors not taking patients seriously, especially adults that claim to have AS, and i created a thread addressing that and trying to help people deal with that. and it was good advice. unfortunately it was trolled before many people could gain benefits. and also i don't know if many of the SD people around here actually give to much of a toss about getting a DX or working WITH doctors to achieve results rather than just tearing them down verbally. but in real life that advice (which was developed in an SD AS group one day) has been extremely beneficial to many adults in obtaining an AS dx. ah well!

I was self-diagnosed (well, not quite; it was suggested to me, after which I started looking it up and went through the "wow, this is the story of my life" phase); I'm now formally diagnosed (which I've not yet mentioned to anyone other than WP members).

It's nice to have "official" confirmation but it is only confirming a conclusion I've been reasonably sure of for a long time. I believe that the great majority of people who self-diagnose do so accurately, and I've seen a lot of people who are unsure and entirely honest about it.

I certainly don't have the impression that there are a significant number of people faking it, and it irks me to see that suggestion made gratuitously and without supporting evidence.

I hear it's important for the doctor to understand ASD's or else they can't really help you. My mom stoped taking me to a therapist when I was 13 because she knew nothing of AS and had never heard of it. But why on earth did my mother wait to tell her afterwards after a few sessions I have it? Then after the last one, she stopped taking me to her.

Glider18, opening a can of worms.

Before I even knew I was different, other people did.

Once I had figured it out, I knew I was just passing for human, a shape shifter that most could spot closeup.

Around 1954 I was refused Baptism due to demonic posession.

My sculpting animals from the mud of puddles, and reading at an adult level, just did not fit in.

In 1958 I was thrown out of school, for the teacher first said look at me, then said don't look at me like that. I was thirteen, she sent me to the office, and taking my stuff I left, gladly, and she ran across the room and slapped me in the back of the head as I went out the door.

It must be my fault, and as I was by law required two more years of school, they sent me to a shrink, who tested my IQ at 140. They then had a reason to get rid of the quite student had had the highest reading comprehension in the school, the highest science grades, and A's in Math.

They tried to have me commited. What saved me was I was working full time. So I started running a pool hall at thirteen, had free table time, and was soon making more than a teacher.

All I remember about school was being told I was hopeless, facing daily comments from teachers like, "Only a mother could love it," but she didn't, because I was always in trouble, because of the way I acted. I was quiet, did not make eye contact, never spoke, for it always lead to be attacked, and read all my books the first few days of school, cover to cover, and remembered it all. I have a really bad hand writting. For which I was punished. All of school was being punished for existing.

I went to work because home was hell, school was hell, and I have nothing good to say about life till I was fifteen, bought a motorcycle, ate out, got a second job, clerking in a toy store, and dressed well, Harris Tweeds, still love them, went coat and tie at sixteen, quit the pool hall, got a new day job, keeping a room full of the latest IBM punch card machines running, operator and mechanic.

Home life was still hell, nothing I did was right, ever. At seventeen I started taking University classes, and was attacked because I had failed school and should know my place.

Just as I turned eighteen and could leave, I got a draft notice, Viet Nam.

This is what is called childhood. The fond memories of carefree days.

I self Dxed as Scorpio Biker Syndrome, Second Decan, and born in the year of the Rooster. It was really a good fit.

My social life as an adult was based on advanced ape management, do unto others first. Everyone continued to see me as something to hate, and were not at all ready to be hated back much worse. They expect the benefit of the doubt, I have no doubts.

It was almost forty years later when I ran into Wrong Planet. Something drew me in, I have never joined a forum, or anything else. There was something there.

I have no faith. I know. Autism really exists. It is a differance in thought patterns and observations, as such it is a whole, and it is in conflict with most other human life.

Looking back I have always lived in alien cultures, it was the only place I was accepted. I understand Wrong Planet.

As for the Doctors of Psychobabble, they do not have a clue about the Autistic World, they are just reacting to different. A few days in my world they would be screaming and self medicating. I can see why they have claimed there are are no autistic adults.

It is the same reason I have seen all my life, fear of something different, if we are not defective, they are. Like my teachers who wanted to control learning, the self taught are a threat. Those who think for themselves can change everything, and they fear change. Even in their groups, with all of the social, political, and economic power, a few nerds with computers are taking over the world, and have removed 20% of employment through increased productivity.

A differance in thought and perception that makes them useless. 50% unemployment is coming. Web sales are only 10% now, but growing, as brick and mortar are falling. In a world of thought and ideas, they are second class.

As Temple Grandin said, it was not the ones sitting around picking each others fleas that invented the spear, it was the loner who was tired of being slapped in the back of the head.

I find Wrong Planet to be normal, civil, intelligent, and do not buy any of the NT propaganda.

It may be better today, life would have been a lot better if I had Glider18 for a teacher, but it happened the way it did for my generation. I was not welcomed where I was born, my path was made hard, I have no empathy is one thing they got right.

With no attachment for anything about this culture, I and many others work for change. It's coming fast. Change is what they fear, what we produce.

In the words I live by, "Frankly my dear, I do not give a damn."

Thank you Inventor, great post.

That is an amazing post Inventor---there have been very few posts that I have ever read that offers so much emotion of a member's challenged past as yours has. I will think about it a lot today. I appreciate your post Inventor. And yes, I did open a can of worms . But it was in good intent---I just want us to be satisfied with who we are without others trying to say they know us better than we do---and critically question our diagnosis. I found your post quite interesting about how you almost were institutionalized but was saved by your employment. I had a cousin many years ago who I assume was autistic (this was pre-autism days in the U.S.) that was sent to the Athens, Ohio Psychiatric Hospital where he lived from the age of 16 to his senior citizen days. That is such a tragedy to be misunderstood like that. I often wonder what things he would have achieved with his incredible brain had his world been accepting. Thank you again for your post.

Agreed

and



agreed.

If people are attacking you (and arguing the point is not attacking you) then report them to a moderator.

Why not? People can post what they want within the boundaries of the rules set by Alex. You can post your own view to your heart's content so long as you abide by the Terms of Service, and so can others.


Or an inclination and so long as they abide by the TOS (Terms of Service) they may do so. You may do the same. This seems quite reasonable to me. The only realistic solution to any sensitivity you might have about your opinions or experiences being commented on or argued about or against by others is to not post them in a public discussion forum.


In the context, there is actually not all that much "doctor bashing going on".


Yes they can (so long as they abide by the ToS while doing so). This applies "across the board". How can people other than you say what they have experienced or think if they may not reply to your comments in disagreement?

Including people who disagree with you, would have less of a good time, and be impaired in their ability to talk, if they could not post things that may disagree with your experiences and your thinking, and who would never expect you not post things that disagree with their experiences and thinking.

The same rules that allow you to disagree with others, applies to others. If you cannot have a good time unless you are allowed to post whatever you want and everyone else must agree with you or not post, then WP is probably not your idea of a good time because it does not work like that around here.

You seem to have some very odd (and quite inaccurate) ideas about what others must know.

I am pleased you have found a helpful member you are able to accept assistance and support from. However, you do not have a right to disrupt other members and from now on I will be proactive in reporting your behavior if you will not comply with the Terms of Service for posting at WP (since it is clear from this thread that you are now causing upset and disruption to other members/users).


Is being discriminated against fair? Is receiving substandard clinical treatment because of a pre-existing disability fair? People with ASDs have as much right to safely access clinical services that meet their needs as anyone else, and to so without being subjected to denigrating and non-clinical stereotypes held by the person/people delivering the service, just like anyone else. Any physician who practises in an area where someone's ASD status might be clinically relevant needs to know enough to know when to make referrals or seek consultation with others (with relevant expertise to prevent avoidable harm and deliver services of a minimum standard of quality) at the very least. The alternative is that we are excluded from basic rights that apply to others, solely on the basis of our disability.


You are making what is called a strawman argument (an informal fallacy). Few if any people are arguing that every doctor should be an ASD specialist. What is expected is that physicians have enough knowledge to competently deliver services that do not discriminate against people with ASDs. This does not require that one be a specialist in ASDs.

Unfortunately not all doctors do this. Many instead choose to practice outside their competency. You see if someone is not a specialist in ASDs and someone wants to be assessed for this condition, the best ability the doctor can employ at this point is the ability to obtain information about and make an appropriate referral to someone who is competent to meet the needs of the patient concerned. Practising outside the scope of one's competency is not the best of any fit doctor's ability. On the contrary it is unethical, unprofessional, and in many instances either violates the terms of one's practising license, registration with a professional practitioner's association, and/or is unlawful or has the potential for unlawful implications or consequences.

By definition, if one has an ASD, one has a communication impairment. This impairment does not magically disappear just because one is in a clinical context or attempting to communicate with a clinician.

Well, you do say that you don't feeling anything. "Gifted" individuals generally got intense emotions. http://www.sengifted.org/articles_social/Roeper_TheEmotionalNeedsOfTheGiftedChild.shtml Propably even more marked with profoundly gifted individuals. So you must have something other that giftedness that make you at least unaware of feelings. And it could be asperger.

Also, while the gifteds (the NT ones...) got "sensual overexcitabilities", which give intense sensual experiences, autists and aspergers got "integration integration disorder", which not only bring hypersensivities, but also hyposensivities. A checklist there: http://www.sensory-processing-disorder.com/sensory-processing-disorder-checklist.html

@Glider18: Is there a way to know if you're "gifted" while asperger beside testings. I'm pretty sure I am asperger (difficulty looking people in the eyes, difficulty reading social situations, rigidity (mostly when i was a kid), very rarely lie, not getting social rules, and so on...), but I don't know about giftedness. This question do had bring giftedness as my aspie interest, which can be depressing sometime as I don't know if I am . I've got a great intellectual curiosity. I do have many interests, generally more in the intellectual realms. And it's certainly more the kinds of interests that got the gifteds (like physic...). So I guess I've got what is called "intellectual overexcitabilities". But most of the IQ testing don't put me in the "gifted" range. So beside testing, how can I know? Much "checklists" are not made for those with aspergers, and in internet there's not much informations about both giftedness and asperger. The little there is, is for knowing if there asperger with giftedness and not the other way around...

if that were true then I should have been diagnosed many years earlier. I was myself and I told the truth to professional after professional from general practitioners to social workers to psychologists to psychiatrists but no one looked past the depression or insomnia for a larger syndrome. it was only after I brought up AS that I was able to get it seriously looked at.

Like glider18 said, those who are gifted and have an autism spectrum difference are sometimes known as "twice-exceptional" or "2E". There was a study done recently that tested students who were gifted/ASD. The study found that they had very high verbal and/or performance IQ; average working memory and processing speed; low scores in communication and daily living skills; and lowest score in socialization. It can be difficult to diagnose those who are gifted, because they sometimes are able to compensate more effectively for their deficits. Are they still on the autism spectrum? Sure. Even if they are able to compensate to some degree? Sure. It's still there, just sometimes more difficult to diagnose.

Z

Hi Tollorin---I wish I could help you more on this, but it is confusing. I wish I could find the checklist I used on myself before I found out my IQ score from school. When I did get my old IQ score, I discovered that it was 111 and not in the gifted range which went along with my conclusion from the checklist that I was AS and not gifted. Here is another article which will either help you or add to the confusion:

http://www.sengifted.org/articles_couns ... rder.shtml

I can tell you this---I teach the gifted. And they socialize fairly well and don't seem to have the sensory and social awkwardness I have. They seem very much like the average kid at school---except they like to study and prepare for their futures. But, they also like to plan out the social events too with their groups of friends. If we have the impairments as stated in the DSM-IV, then I believe it is safe to say that AS would be the diagnosis. What you need is your IQ score.

I have a word of caution about these online IQ tests---pay attention to the time limit. Many of those questions can be answered correctly if you take more time than is allowed. By taking it within the time limit may give you a much lower score than if you break the time limit rule. I have experimented with this. On a timed IQ test I get approximately my 111 range if I follow the time rule. If I take more time than is allowed, I can get close to 140 on them. But that is not my IQ score because I took more time.

To look more on this gifted/AS thing, try searching under the keywords of gifted and Asperger. You should find numerous websites offereing help here. Good luck.

I know for sure that I am austist (asperger). What I want to know is if I'm also gifted. (I guess this is rather silly... ) So it's really gifteness in "association"with asperger that I want to know about. Because I'm asperger, of course I can't socialise as well as your students. That at least is obvious.

I was been officially tested. The Weschler test results say that I'm bellow the gifted range, in the Raven I was tested at 95-100th percentil (so 125+IQ). Weirdly I tested in the 91th percentil (about 120 IQ) in a similar test on the Weschler and the same day. (No results was better that the 91th percentil (when it was reaching it...) on the Weschler). There is also a test of reading comprehension, which I found a LOT more easy that any other test, but I miss questions because the most obvious answer seemed too easy for be true... Clearly my level surpass the test on this one. But that most only be a weird anomaly... I know I was been said gifted when I was a kid, but if I have been tested, there's no trace of it. According to specialist that diagnose me with asperger (and tested me), it's because my brain as maturing more quickly that those of other kids before "slowing down" is evolution by ten years old. So really I'm completly clueless about my situation.

At least I stumbled on that: www.uiowa.edu/~belinctr/special-events/assouline-2xgt.ppt (pages 14-15) I could meditate on it, even though it's not much.

Thank, Glider18.

As for hyper/hypo sensitivities personally I only have hypersensitivities. My 5 senses works better than usual on a normal scale (I have 12/10 of sight and a very good night sight, I ear better than normal people and I can know people by their smell for istance). But I have oversensibility problem with them. There are many clothes I can't wear, I can't stand when food "mix-up" in the plate, I watch tv without sounds (watching + listening is too much for me), I do toe walking and there are sounds I can't really stand. But I also have a very high self-control (If it's needed) differently from many people here, I CAN act completly normal if I want (I can go to cinema or disco, I can eat every kind of food, etc..) but it provoke a very high stress to me, but I can.

As for emotions, I didn't tell the complete true. It's not that I don't feel anything at all, simply I feel emotion like a young child (fear, anger, parental bounding) they are pretty simple. And then I completly miss normal people emotions like friendship, romantic love, envy, etc.. But I also have "high" emotion like the feeling for the world as a unique whole, the caring for plants, animal and humankind, etc.. It's not properly that I don't feel, it's more probably that I don't feel like others, I've started feeling something after studying philosophy because before there aren't the "right words for that". For istance when I was 17-y-old there was a "tempest" on the beach, there was only 1 baywatch and 20 people in the sea. I just went into the water (I'm an exceptional swimmer) and carried 5 people to the shore and then fell down exausted, on the other hand if someone have a problem with a friend or break an arms I don't feel anything because they seems too small thing to feel something. Add to that that I'm highly rational, so I tend to process emotion via brain. My wife usually say "It's not that you don't feel love, is that you feel it with your brain instead of your heart".

On the other hand is probable that I'm "twice exceptional" because usually also highly gifted child understand their peer and try to interact, while it took me 18 years to start understanding people. Yes by now, I'm pretty normal but as for sentiments it's simply because I process everything with brain, I can focus on body-language (I've studied it), or can understand people intention and manipulate them but all that is not because I've an innate "theory of mind" (actually for a long time I had the fear to be in a "fake world") or body language understand, it's simply expirience like an ethologist.

Last edited by Nightsun on 04 Dec 2009, 4:34 am, edited 2 times in total.

It's pretty normal if you are AS and gifted. Autistic brain reach the best results in Raven's progressive matrices. To be gifted you don't need to score high in all test, just one.

Depending on the IQ test, some emphasize quick timed answers and others do not. Just because one can't answer quickly doesn't mean that they are not gifted. Those who have a learning disability or ASD diagnosis can sometimes have the accommodation of not being timed when they take tests.

When I took the Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale (WAIS) only a few things like block design had a time limit. I scored pretty well. When I've taken timed IQ tests, my IQ can drop as much as 45 points. The people who tested me with the mostly un-timed Weschler test told me that I am gifted, even though I test as average on timed tests.

Notes on the Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale-Revised found here.

The WAIS-R gives a global IQ and also two separate IQ’s for the two scales: verbal and performance. There are 6 verbal subscales and 5 performance subscales. Wechsler believes that this test is a good measure of “g”. The two scales can be used separately to see if a person has particular strengths or weaknesses. Wechsler suggests that if there is more than 15 IQ points difference between the two main scales then this might be cause for further investigation. The design of the test, with the two scales, means that the verbal & performance scales can be used alone. The Performance section alone can be used with examinees who are unable to properly comprehend or manage language, or the Verbal scale alone can be used with examinees who are visually or motor impaired. There is little emphasis on speed in this test with only some subscales having time limits and some subscales having bonuses for speed.