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-Skeksis-
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27 Dec 2011, 1:41 am

A layman cannot self-diagnose. Even med school students and doctors cannot self-diagnose. It's a big no-no.



draelynn
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27 Dec 2011, 1:52 am

How can anyone diagnose when there is no uniform, standard criteria for dxing adults? By default, adults are post diagnosed with childhood autism. There is no professionally accepted 'adult diagnostic criteria'. As of now, all adult diagnoses are, technically, totally subjective.



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27 Dec 2011, 3:07 am

A highly trained and competent medical professional can be wrong. This is something everyone agrees on. I'm more concerned that people self-diagnosed with ASDs believing themselves right 100% of the time. Not even a medical professional is right all of the time.



Quixotic
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27 Dec 2011, 4:24 am

dianthus wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Those who believe their own diagnoses without benefit of confirmation by an appropriately trained mental-health professional have a fool for a patient. An amateur diagnosis is merely a faith-based claim, much the same as any religious delusion based on faith alone.


A person who unquestioningly accepts the opinion of a professional without doing their own research and analysis is making a leap of faith.


From a certain perspective, any formal diagnosis is only as good as the faith you personally feel able to place in the medical credentials of the person doing the diagnosing.



DreamSofa
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27 Dec 2011, 5:18 am

I have more faith in those who are trained and who have professional and ethical standards to meet than someone who reads a wikipedia page and takes an online test and declares themselves on the spectrum.



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27 Dec 2011, 5:21 am

Skeksis, you make a good point.

I know someone who said for years that he suffered from Restless Leg Syndrome, though he never saw a doctor to verify his self-diagnosis. Finally, after years of complaining and whingeing and moaning about it, he went to see a doctor and guess what? He doesn't have the syndrome.

And this was in a country with socialised medicine and is a person with a private income, so he had no excuse. It was just more satisfying to get the hairpats and sympathy than to have his self-diagnosis challenged.



whalewatcher
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27 Dec 2011, 5:28 am

DreamSofa wrote:
I have more faith in those who are trained and who have professional and ethical standards to meet than someone who reads a wikipedia page and takes an online test and declares themselves on the spectrum.


So do I, and I included myself in the latter category for some time.

Getting a professional diagnosis was important to me because it settled the issue. The more I read about AS the more convinced I became that I was on the spectrum. Almost every aspect of my life history fitted the profile.

However I didn't want to 'self-diagnose' in case I was just flat out wrong. I was lucky enough to have a consultation with a professional psychologist who has spent most of his career dealing with people on the spectrum. He would know what stigmata to look for, whereas I have still never knowingly met another person with autism. Qualifications are only part of the story, a professional gets a 'feel' for his subject that a web surfer can't have.

Having a professional diagnosis means I don't have to have further doubts, or to keep trying to justify my own conclusions (to myself as much as anyone else). Now I can move on to living with it and understanding it.



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27 Dec 2011, 5:35 am

I remember my ex saying he had restless leg syndrome too because he had a tenancy to tap his foot when he sit a certain way. So in my car he always sat with the seat way back so he have his legs a certain way so he wouldn't be tapping his feet and shaking the whole car. I think he was self diagnosed with it. He even sat in a chair a certain way. I don't know if he actually had it since he could control it. He just had to sit a certain way is all.

The guy who thought he had RLS all those years, I wonder what he had instead?



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27 Dec 2011, 6:40 am

DreamSofa wrote:
I have more faith in those who are trained and who have professional and ethical standards to meet than someone who reads a wikipedia page and takes an online test and declares themselves on the spectrum.


Is that honestly how you think it works for people who self-diagnose? That somebody wakes up one day, discovers AS for the first time by a chance encounter, takes a test and then by midday declares "Well that's settled then, I have Apsergers".

My partner was recently diagnosed by a trained professional with ethical standards as having asthma. I said to her "that's not right, you don't have asthma. My brother has asthma, I know it when I see it". Sure enough her terrible cough continues for another couple of months and so she goes back to the GP surgery and sees a different doctor, and guess what? She has a chest infection requiring anti-biotics and no asthma at all.



DreamSofa
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27 Dec 2011, 6:41 am

whalewatcher, I tip my hat to you.



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27 Dec 2011, 6:51 am

Quote:
Is that honestly how you think it works for people who self-diagnose?


Pretty much, yes, though you have over-simplified. The operative word is 'self'.

And for anyone who believes that a self-diagnosis is just as valid as a professional diagnosis, see if researchers will take on as research participants those who self-diagnose.

For example, I know that the ARC will allow on those who have been professionally diagnosed.

A validity test would be to see if other researchers who are looking for those on the spectrum would accept the self-diagnosed as research subjects. (You can look at the NAS web site for a list of research projects.) I would be greatly surprised if a self-diagnosis was considered acceptable for inclusion in a project.

Which gives me an idea: those who claim to be able to diagnose people at a glance could contact researchers and volunteer to find participants for them just by observing random people on the street. It's a win-win situation. :D



fraac
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27 Dec 2011, 7:00 am

DreamSofa wrote:
Quote:
Is that honestly how you think it works for people who self-diagnose?


Pretty much, yes, though you have over-simplified. The operative word is 'self'.


Verdandi wrote:
I'd had three people I knew (two also on the spectrum, one who is a therapist) tell me they'd suspected I was on the spectrum all along - and all three gave detailed explanations as to why they thought this. I compared notes with multiple other autistic people I know to find points of similarity. I discussed the matter with my mother who gave me a list of observations that she felt supported the probability that I was autistic. I read through approximately 100 pages of WP posts (I mean the forum pages that list threads), to find points of similarity. I took multiple tests that have scientific validity as screening tools, I read books about autism and looked for points of similarity. I compared my own mannerisms to those of autistic people shown in videos on youtube. I learned a lot about autism and reached the inescapable conclusion that I was autistic.


Doesn't add up.



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27 Dec 2011, 7:15 am

AASPIRE accepts applicants for research who are self-diagnosed, although I do not know how often they're invited to do research studies.

However, the fact is that most studies specifically want people who have been diagnosed with the ADOS and ADI-R as the gold standard for diagnosis. This doesn't have anything to do with the possible accuracy or lack thereof regarding self-diagnosis (I can think of one professional - Tony Attwood - who has said that anyone who self-diagnoses is likely correct) and everything to do with attempting to establish research standards that to date have not existed. If you look at older studies of Asperger's System, for example, you can find that studies use multiple diagnostic criteria, and some have people who would not have been accepted for another study, which complicates comparisons between studies.

Another complicating factor is as recent research has found, what you are diagnosed with often depends on where you were diagnosed. Some clinics prefer to diagnose autism, some prefer to diagnose AS, some prefer to diagnose PDD-NOS. Some modify diagnoses on the basis of improvement, even though that is not the point of existing diagnoses.

There are multiple reasons that a lot of research will not take self-diagnosed autistic people without proposing that most of them are likely wrong, including the lack of standardized diagnostic protocols.



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27 Dec 2011, 7:20 am

Guineapigged wrote:
DISCLAIMER: I am in no way, shape or form indicating that just because a person does not have a formal diagnosis, they do not suffer from the condition. I am just questioning the use of terminology in such cases.

Diagnosis is, by definition, the conclusion a medical professional reaches following assessment of the patient. It's a piece of paper signed by a doctor; a code used in your medical notes; a formality. Therefore, the concept of "self" diagnosis is an oxymoron, unless you happen to be a qualified medical/mental health professional. Even then, it would be impossible to make a diagnosis of ASD based purely on your own imput, which is likely to be highly subjective.
I dislike use of the term "self diagnosis" because it implies validity and seems to be cropping up more often as a kind of "alternative" to legitimate diagnosis, even though they're not comparable at all.

Terms I prefer:
- "pre-diagnosis": the person acknowledges they may have an ASD and is in the process of seeking a diagnosis
- "undiagnosed/suspected": the person suspects they have an ASD but is not seeking a diagnosis
- "provisional/working diagnosis": the person has been told it is likely they have an ASD (by somebody who is qualified to make that judgement) but other conditions have not yet been ruled out

Under these conditions I would class myself as having a working diagnosis.

What are your thoughts? :)


:wtg:
People say that I'm probably in the very early stages of "provisional".


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27 Dec 2011, 7:25 am

AASPIRE is not a research institute. It is best described as a pressure / interest / lobbying / self-advocacy group. They also include in their work "adults with and without other disabilities". Therefore, there are no issues of quality assurance.



Last edited by DreamSofa on 27 Dec 2011, 7:29 am, edited 2 times in total.

DreamSofa
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27 Dec 2011, 7:26 am

Quote:
Some clinics prefer to diagnose autism, some prefer to diagnose AS, some prefer to diagnose PDD-NOS


That's irrelevant as they are all considered as being on the spectrum.