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Longshanks
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23 Feb 2012, 5:17 pm

For some reason, I can understand that one. :eew:

Longshanks

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Unspecified
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23 Feb 2012, 6:01 pm

Invader wrote:

This is very typical NT nonsense.

Nice. No, it's my opinion.

Quote:

Having a clear intellectual understanding of the world is more important than social awkwardness. Things don't suddenly stop being true just because you don't like them.

I have a very clear intellectual understanding of the world which includes some knowledge about social awkwardness.
You make them sound mutually exclusive. To you they may be, but not to me.

Quote:

If we abandon all logic and reason just because the facts are unpleasant, we will turn into a race of complete idiots. Well, most people are already there, but the point still stands.

Pfft. Self important mumbo jumbo. Nobody is turning into a race of anything if my kid tries a little harder not to insult random strangers on the bus, and the same action certainly doesn't even BEGIN to mean that we abandon logic and reason. I call full BS on that.

Quote:

To use your own example, where would your autistic son be if everyone was too scared to admit that he was different? If everyone felt too uncomfortable to admit that he had a disorder called autism, because it's not nice to think that people can have problems? People would just think he was a real jerk, and that he had no excuse for being so rude, even though he probably can't help it. Imagine how much worse he would be treated.

I agree. In a perfect world, everybody, especially the ugly and morbidly obese, has excellent knowledge about all other possible disorders of the random people on their bus that day, and are in a mood to forgive any rudeness based on a magical insta-diagnosis they can do on the spot.

Quote:

Where would we be right now as a species if we never had any knowledge about fire, because we were too scared to study and experiment with it, always fearful of getting burned?

Where would we be if we had never discovered the cause of things like cholera? If we were too scared to tell everyone they had been drinking water with human waste in it, because it's gross and we don't want to think about it?

Germs in your food? No way, that would be horrible, let's not think about it...

Of course, no important discovery has ever been made by a polite person.

Quote:

All NTs ever do is lie to themselves and each other, ignoring reality as much as they can because they're all so terrified that the truth about certain things might be unpleasant.

BS.

Mithos
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23 Feb 2012, 7:57 pm

I've been banned from several sites because "You post way too frequently and have said some things that have hurt the feelings of fellow members." I just laughed and moved on. I just can't stop typing and shooting my mouth/keyboard off. I love to talk!

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Invader
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23 Feb 2012, 8:43 pm

Wow! Is calling what I said "BS" and insulting me supposed to disprove my claim that the ability to perceive truth and think logically is more important than anything as arbitrary and ridiculous as manners?

To be fair, I am the idiot here, for trying to reason with a herd animal which is incapable of independant thought. With the primitive kind of mentality which believes that something can only be true if it is not unpleasant to believe, it stands to reason that the unpleasant facts which I have presented you with would not be acceptable. It was pretty stupid of me to overlook that, I admit.

Perhaps I should have pretended to compliment you, and make up some nice things about you, while insincerely using a lot of happy smiling faces. Then perhaps my words would have been pleasant enough to hold some kind of factual validity. Because the level of friendliness exhibited by a speaker is what determines whether the information they provide is important enough to be acknowledged or not.

I feel very sorry for your child.

:):):)

Edit: I also find it hilarious that you think anyone with autism isn't fully aware of how rude other people can be. We get treated worse than ordinary people every day of our lives. It does nothing to change the fact that honesty is a billion times more valuable than an endless game of "pretend" which everyone already knows is completely fake, especially when that idiotic game is allowed to dictate what we consider true or false.

It's this kind of illogical trash which makes the world almost impossible to navigate for a lot of us, but hey I'm glad you think that keeping up such a mindless act for no reason is a good thing. Well, not "think", obviously, whatever it is that NTs do instead, but, uh, you know what I mean. Or feel it. Anyway... Yeah... Good for you.

Unspecified
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23 Feb 2012, 9:23 pm

Invader wrote:

Then perhaps my words would have been pleasant enough to hold some kind of factual validity.

Because the level of friendliness exhibited by a speaker is what determines whether the information they provide is important enough to be acknowledged or not.

I feel very sorry for your child.

:):):)

Edit: I also find it hilarious that you think anyone with autism isn't fully aware of how rude other people can be. We get treated worse than ordinary people every day of our lives. It does nothing to change the fact that honesty is a billion times more valuable than an endless game of "pretend" which everyone already knows is completely fake, especially when that idiotic game is allowed to dictate what we consider true or false.

It's this kind of illogical trash which makes the world almost impossible to navigate for a lot of us, but hey I'm glad you think that keeping up such a mindless act for no reason is a good thing. Well, not "think", obviously, whatever it is that NTs do instead, but, uh, you know what I mean. Or feel it. Anyway... Yeah... Good for you.

Go f**k yourself.
I have a diagnosed PDD too.
Having a perception of being bullied might make it easier for you to be an a**hole, but it doesn't change the fact that you are one. Good luck with that.

I agree fully when you say that you're the idiot.

Longshanks
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23 Feb 2012, 10:55 pm

Unspecified wrote:

Invader wrote:

This is very typical NT nonsense.

Nice. No, it's my opinion.

Quote:

Having a clear intellectual understanding of the world is more important than social awkwardness. Things don't suddenly stop being true just because you don't like them.

I have a very clear intellectual understanding of the world which includes some knowledge about social awkwardness.
You make them sound mutually exclusive. To you they may be, but not to me.

Quote:

If we abandon all logic and reason just because the facts are unpleasant, we will turn into a race of complete idiots. Well, most people are already there, but the point still stands.

Quote:

Of course, no important discovery has ever been made by a polite person.

Quote:

All NTs ever do is lie to themselves and each other, ignoring reality as much as they can because they're all so terrified that the truth about certain things might be unpleasant.

BS.

I'll comment on your last remark. In fact, I'll put this plain so that there is no misunderstanding, pilgrim.

I will grant you that not all NT's are inconsiderate, but many are in denial. My parents and my schoolmates were perfect examples of that. It's because of the neuro-wiring, and yes we aspies have paid a heavy price for it. We are constantly criticized by NT's for not being able to walk a mile in another person's shoes by many of the same NT's who have not exhibited the capability of doing it themselves.

You are coming across as someone who hasn't done enough research yet, and certainly hasn't dealt with this issue long. Wet-Behind-The-Ears, Greenhorn, Pilgrim, or, if you want the military vernacular, F@#$ing New Guy. Open your eyes and ears and think before you step on a landmine! You are on an aspie website where aspies are venting. And vent they should. It's certainly better than going postal! A lot of NT's have been known to go that route!

You better wake up and take another look around you and start thinking a little more for the sake of your kid if not for you! You really remind me of my dad - and I haven't spoken to him since 1997! Do you want that for your relationship with your son? If not, shut your pie-hole, open up your ears and learn!

Longshanks

hyperlexian
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23 Feb 2012, 11:20 pm

Invader, you insulted Unspecified first (calling her words "typical NT nonsense"), and she responded to that (inappropriately). saying that you feel sorry for someone's kid is also not acceptable as it is insulting.

Unspecified, your reaction to Invader was also not acceptable, i.e. telling him to "f**k himself". if a member is insulting you, please contact a moderator or you will be held accountable as well - even if they started it.

Longshanks, that is not helpful. she has been dealing with this issue for 17 years (longer as she also has a diagnosis of her own). your remarks are dismissive and make unfair assumptions about her parenting. and she is correct that Invader's remark about NTs is untrue - ALL NTs do not behave in any particular way, just like ALL aspies don't just act one particular way.

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Guybrush_Threepwood
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23 Feb 2012, 11:24 pm

Wow. I could see this was going to go awry, and was going to say something (like it would of helped ) but wow...what a spectacle that became

I was going to say something about people taking the time to understand one another, or some cuddly crap like that...

But I think I don't care about nice comforting environments turning to sh*t for no reason any more...do any of you know what an NT looks like when observed in a situation in which they are being socially excluded? What about an NT that joins a conversation being enjoyed by a group of Aspies only to be made very aware that they are not welcome...or that what they are saying is completely incomprehensible...or simply an excuse to practice contorting their faces as a group in disgust?...

If so and you have footage of this even, please mail me...I want to see that. I have decided to become an overweight, unclean, unshaven individual that rarely moves from a funky old recliner while watching a loop of such footage while laughing maniacally and throwing processed cheese and bacon sandwiches at the television.

Please stop abusing each other for no good reason...I can't take it any more....

hyperlexian
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23 Feb 2012, 11:27 pm

thank you for that, Guybrush_Threepwood. it was well said. everyone on WP should feel welcome and not ostracised for their diagnostic status.

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Longshanks
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23 Feb 2012, 11:27 pm

Hyperlexian, I believe, if you read my post carefully, I stated that not all NT's are that way. And yeah, she's rubbing a few people the wrong way, myself among them. Abrasiveness begets abrasiveness. That's human nature. If she doesn't want an abrasive response, she should govern her emotions enough not to tick the rest of us off.

Longshanks

hyperlexian
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23 Feb 2012, 11:28 pm

Longshanks wrote:

you rubbed me the wrong way.

i read what she wrote and none of it was out of line.

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Longshanks
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23 Feb 2012, 11:32 pm

hyperlexian wrote:

Longshanks wrote:

you rubbed me the wrong way.

i read what she wrote and none of it was out of line.

I will agree to disagree.

Longshanks

Invader
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23 Feb 2012, 11:57 pm

hyperlexian wrote:

Calling illogical ramblings "nonsense" isn't an insult, it's an evaluation of what she said, not an evaluation of her. Am I supposed to say nonsensical gibberish makes perfect sense? If someone says something which is completely untrue, I am expected to agree with them simply because they may be unappy if I disagree?

This is exactly what the discussion is about, the perception of certain facts as being negative does not in any way invalidate them.

And why is she permitted to disagree with me, if I can't disagree with her? Surely I am just as prone to be offended by her nonsense as she is to be offended by me calling it nonsense. Who decides whose feelings of being offended have the most validity? This is why trying to place manners on a pedastal above logic or reasoning is ridiculous and stupid, the definition of what is rude and what is not is entirely subjective and varies from person to person. You think I'm rude believing that logic and truth are more important than pretending to smile at people who know you're only pretending to smile, well I think you're just as rude for trying to devalue that belief of mine. Now what?

And I do feel sorry for the kid. Don't even start trying to tell me that I can't even express legitimate sympathy.

hyperlexian
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24 Feb 2012, 12:04 am

Invader wrote:

hyperlexian wrote:

you accused her of insulting you, so i pointed out that you insulted her in a similar way first. and then in your post after that you insulted her further. your opinions are not objective facts, just like hers are not. therefore when you state your opinion it is not as though you are simply making an objective statement - you're drawing a subjective conclusion. and that can be offensive indeed. it's partly dependent on it is delivered.

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Warsie
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24 Feb 2012, 3:23 am

Banned from many (okay, not a LOT of) forums

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TheygoMew
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24 Feb 2012, 3:53 am

Unspecified wrote:

Longshanks wrote:

Invader wrote:

Frequently. People don't like honesty, and prefer to ignore facts if they happen to be unpleasant in some way or another.

1) I love your avatar! My compliments!
2) You are completely right on your statement.
3) We get the last laugh when we say, "I told you so!"

Longshanks

Yes, but if you think about it a little bit, what exactly is the gain for anyone if that truth happens to be "Wow, you're fat and ugly" or "you have a big mustache for a woman!" or other things my son still (at 17) tells people?

Isn't that a bit like telling anyone here that "wow, you don't behave like the rest of us, do you?"?

There is a difference. What your son is saying is rude but are you sure it's exactly like that? Sometimes people twist up what someone means by telling the truth with rude responses because alot of people tend to smile to people's faces then say mean things behind their back as if somehow that makes it all better.

While neither are appropriate, it's up to parents to teach their children why it is not appropriate. When parents say "BECAUSE I SAY SO! I DONT LIKE IT!" Those are really helpful.

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