Suicide as an alternative option for lifelong torment.

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TallyMan
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08 Aug 2012, 5:31 pm

puddingmouse wrote:

Suicide is a desperate attempt to make pain stop.

That is it in a nutshell.

MightyMorphin
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08 Aug 2012, 5:37 pm

Not that I'm encouraging it, but it's up to you what you do with your life.

Obviously, nobody here wants you to go top yourself, but unfortunately if you were really dead set on it, we can't help you, unless someone here is a close friend in person.

Suicide is a permanent fix to a temporary problem.

You'll miss your favourite bands new song coming out, pretty flowers and lovely looking plants, the rain, all the nice little things in life. These are actually the things that keep me going, the fact that I'll miss out on music and scenery.

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08 Aug 2012, 5:54 pm

TallyMan wrote:

I'm very much like that too. I've had a good day today since my post earlier in this thread; a good day to be alive; I've been outside in the sunshine working in my vegetable garden. The chickens have been working alongside me scratching and picking up grubs out of the ground where I pull up weeds. I've also harvested the onion crop and some runner beans. Very pleasant day. Tomorrow I may be seriously considering suicide again! It is a horrible way to live, extremes of mood, up and down. Always in the background there are financial worries - they are the largest trigger of stress and the downs. I don't normally talk about these issues, I've generally found talking makes them worse - typically because people don't know what to say and often say the wrong things, give crap advice or dump a heap of guilt on making matters worse. If anyone tells me it's a sin I'll shove a crucifix up their ****! :lol:

The classic comment by others is "just think how bad it will make your family feel" - Do they think I don't know this? It just adds to the torture; you can end up living a life you don't want for many years just so as not to cause those around you distress over your demise. Sooner or later you have to find a way to live for yourself, not for others. If you can't find that elusive something then what is the point? Anyway, believe it or not I'm quite optimistic and cheerful at this moment in time! :lol:

I'm just expressing how it can feel when I'm down.

Yeah, "just think about how bad it will make your family feel" is totally rubbish advice. It turns living into an obligation to be fulfilled for the sake of other people - some or all of whom may be contributors to the suicidal ideation in the first place.

Other bits I hate are hearing about how people who commit suicide are "weak," "taking the coward's way out," "it's a sin," etc. Most people don't understand it, and their reactions can easily make it worse.

I remember one time I posted that a particular kind of advice would trigger suicidal ideation for me, and someone PMed me to convince me not to do it by using that specific advice. Ugh.

Verdandi
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08 Aug 2012, 5:58 pm

Callista wrote:

Indeed. I have recurrent depression, and when I'm in the middle of an episode, I often think back on the times when I nearly attempted suicide and wish I had gone through with it. (I have always chosen practically-guaranteed-fatal methods, so if I had actually attempted suicide, I likely wouldn't be here.)

But the thing is--depression is episodic. It's not "lifelong torment"; it's periodic pain, and often times, when you get the hang of taking advantage of treatment, you can cut episodes short and prevent their recurrence for longer and longer periods of time. In between the episodes, there are chunks of life that are absolutely worth living. Even in the middle of an episode, before it gets too bad and while you're starting to pull out of it, there are small things that are still enjoyable.

When you're depressed, your brain will try to tell you "It will always be like this. It will never get better." But that is not true. It certainly feels like it will never get better, but that emotion, while real, does not actually reflect reality. The fact is, it gets better--inevitably--because the human brain is a changeable thing. It doesn't stay frozen in one state. Even for people with depression/dysthymia, there are better times and worse times; and the better times are worth it.

I agree with you on all of this. I have major depressive disorder/clinical depression/unipolar depression and I have better times and worse times.

As far as suicide attempts go, I made a few inept attempts in the 90s, but everything I plan now I know would be lethal. I've told people the reason I don't attempt is that I don't want to risk being hospitalized for failing, but I have specific plans.

I came very close last December when I had a medication that is not supposed to be prescribed to suicidal patients (although neither I nor my doctor knew that when it was prescribed).

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08 Aug 2012, 5:59 pm

Zokk wrote:

I'm not religious, so I don't care about the moral or ethical implications of suicide, but I do believe, personally, that suicide is a coward's way out. It's nothing more than a weak-willed person's get-out-of-jail-free card. Killing yourself isn't proof of a strong will, it's only proof that you don't have enough self-respect and enough of a sense of responsibility to those who care about you to continue working to solve your problems and make things work out in the end. Staying alive and facing your fears, problems and responsibilities in the face of seemingly overwhelming odds is a true display of willpower.

Your views are wrong. You have no idea what you're talking about.

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08 Aug 2012, 6:06 pm

Zokk wrote:

celebrei wrote:

the causative factors that drove them to suicide in the first place: a judgmental society.

Well, hate to break it to you, but humans are instinctively judgmental. It's part of who we are as a species. It's part of how we rationalize and organize our perception of reality: We judge everything, try to categorize it, in order to create a sense of understanding of it. People, places, things; it all gets judged and filed away for future reference. Sometimes those judgments are harsh, and when we share them with other people, they may be offended or otherwise emotionally affected by them. Such is life inside the human mind, both on the giving and receiving end of it. Only way to get past those harsh judgements t hat are shared with us is to accept them and to think about how to change and improve so we won't be judged like that again.

Actually, many judgments are pointless and ignorant. And one way to get past those harsh judgments is to point out that the person who expressed them is utterly ignorant on the topic and should not speak on matters about which he is so grievously misinformed. Another way is to ignore such declarations for the drivel they truly are.

I have seen many people claim that suicide is cowardly and weak-willed. I suspect that such people have never made a serious attempt at it because then they might understand that it is one of the most difficult things to attempt, and what it takes to push someone past the instinct for self-preservation. Suicide is a lot of things, but two things it is not is cowardly or weak-willed.

Your judgments are factually incorrect and serve to push the people you want to convince away from your not helpful "advice." My suggestion is that you don't try to interact with suicidal people because you do not understand suicide enough to be remotely helpful.

Last edited by Verdandi on 08 Aug 2012, 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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08 Aug 2012, 6:08 pm

slave wrote:

Suicide is a personal issue.

No, suicide is a social problem. It is also a psychological problem.

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08 Aug 2012, 6:26 pm

I read an article where a survivor who had jumped off the Golden Gate bridge said that when he jumped he realized the only problem that couldn't be fixed is that he just jumped off the bridge.I have lost an uncle,cousin.niece and nephew to suicide plus a girl I knew since we were seven.I've had suicidal thoughts but I never tried.I know too well the guilt and suffering that family go through.I don't believe that anyone is punished after death,if there is a compassionate higher being than all who suffer would have automatic forgiveness.Of course if someone has a painful,terminal illness I do think that one has the right to end one's life.I also have bi-polar disorder so I know what it's like to feel pure despair and hopelessness,but it is like being sucked into an undertow,if you hold your breath and don't fight you will pop back to the surface.All things are impermanent,even your suffering.It may seem like it's forever but it will change.I hope that you will feel better,please seek help if you feel desperate.

sharkattack
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08 Aug 2012, 6:48 pm

I like to be practical and not mind what people say.

I agree with the original poster we will be all dead one day.

I have felt suicidal myself and being dead was my deepest wish.

There is one big problem doing it.
I tried suffocation but I could not stop myself ripping off the bag time and time again it was not fear struggling for breath is a very nasty sensation.

I tried getting very drunk holding the elastic band so when I fell asleep I would lose my grip and the bag would close it did not work.

When I got out of that phase I said to myself **** it I might aswell make a go of my life.

Feeling like doing it is the worst feeling ever and it can drag on for a long time.

I say either do it or don't do it.

There is no easy way to kill yourself.

If you decided not to do it why not give life another try with everything you have I mean whats to lose?

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08 Aug 2012, 7:06 pm

To quote Dorothy Parker

Razors pain you; Rivers are damp;
Acids stain you; And drugs cause cramp.
Guns aren't lawful;Nooses give;
Gas smells awful; You might as well live.

Matt62
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08 Aug 2012, 7:19 pm

I actually STOPPED thinking suicidal thoughts when I found out that I had been sentenced to Life In Prison Without Possibility of Parole ( also known as being diagnosed with Crohn's disease). It seems that I was chronically depressed in my teen years ( because of issues relating to, big surprise, autism & isolation). Once I had an actual torment, those thoughts evaporated.
The biggest problem with suicide ( aside from not having your life infinitely prolonged by medical means when you are actually dying, a seperate issue!) is the trauma it inflicts on your family & friends. And for that reason, many suicides are actually aggressive acts.

Sincerely,
Matthew

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08 Aug 2012, 7:26 pm

Matt62 wrote:

Are you saying that the consequences of autism aren't actual torment? This is an honest question, because you described problems as a teenager, and then said "once I had an actual torment" in reference to Crohn's Disease.

Quote:

The biggest problem with suicide ( aside from not having your life infinitely prolonged by medical means when you are actually dying, a seperate issue!) is the trauma it inflicts on your family & friends. And for that reason, many suicides are actually aggressive acts.

Reread this thread as to why this is not only a terrible way to convince people not to commit suicide, but sometimes a great way to encourage it. Sometimes, the people you mention contribute directly to the suicidal thoughts. Sometimes you're just telling someone they're even worse than they thought because they're callous enough to hurt others while trying to escape their own pain.

Anyway, that is far from the biggest problem with suicide. That's just a terrible pop psychology way of trying and failing to convince people not to commit suicide.

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08 Aug 2012, 7:42 pm

Verdandi wrote:

Matt62 wrote:

Quote:

I'd have to agree, and the notion that psychological problems cannot cause 'actual torment' is not something I can agree with.

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08 Aug 2012, 7:46 pm

Verdandi wrote:

This is an honest question, because you described problems as a teenager, and then said "once I had an actual torment" in reference to Crohn's Disease.

Read up on what Chrone's Disease does to the body; it's an autoimmune disorder. It's not fun, and there's nothing you can really do to stop it; you can only slow it down with medication and a carefully managed diet. You can have the most sound, normal mind in the world, but your body's working against you. One of my best friends had Chrone's disease, so I know a bit about it and how much it sucks.

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08 Aug 2012, 7:49 pm

Zokk wrote:

Verdandi wrote:

This is an honest question, because you described problems as a teenager, and then said "once I had an actual torment" in reference to Crohn's Disease.

Read up on what Chrone's Disease does to the body. It's not fun, and there's nothing you can really do to stop it; you can only slow it down with medication and a carefully managed diet. You can have the most sound, normal mind in the world, but your body's working against you.

It probably is not fun at all, but neither are things like depression or PTSD.......to suggest only physical illnesses can cause actual torment comes off as a little ignorant. Besides it shouldn't be a competition of who's pain is worse based on what kind of condition they have, as that is bound to invalidate someones feelings and experiences. If one is in enough psychological pain to attempt suicide chances are they aren't exactly experiencing false torment.

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08 Aug 2012, 8:00 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:

OK, this is gonna sound harsh, but psychological torment is brought on by one's inability to cope with a situation. Physical torment is brought on by things out of our control. You have a choice (if somewhat subliminal) whether or not to get so mentally hung up on a problem that it consumes you, but you don't have control over, say, breaking a bone, losing a limb, or being born with an autoimmune disorder. Genetic neurological disorders are a bit different, though. You don't have the choice of whether or not you have them, but you do have the choice whether or not to let them control your life and make you miserable.

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