Are there autistic people who are psychopath/serial killer?

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09 Dec 2012, 10:29 pm

Conduct disorder is also common amongst those with an ASD. Though I think it's more early-onset sociopathy in his case (undiagnosed).

All that I posted, when combined, points to only one type of disorder, a PDD. ADHD doesn't have the specific social deficits listed.

The Crown's psychiatrist and the institute he's in now thinks so too, and they'd have more access to him. So, that'd be 2 to 1 regarding a professional opinion, and the 1 provided erroneous arguments on the nature of AS.

My mind is only made up based on the facts provided. All that I know of an ASD points to it. Nothing else.

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09 Dec 2012, 10:36 pm

Conduct disorder often is early onset sociopathy or psychopathy. I don't know what the statistics are.

This is a paper on social deficits in ADHD.

Quote:

Attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) is associated with functional impairments in different areas of daily life. One such area is social functioning. The purpose of this paper is to critically review research on social dysfunctioning in children with ADHD. Children with ADHD often have conflicts with adults and peers, and suffer from unpopularity, rejection by peers, and a lack of friendships, in part as a consequence of their ADHD symptoms. Comorbid oppositional defiant or conduct disorder aggravates these impairments. In some cases the inadequate social behavior of children with ADHD may be phenomenologically and etiologically related to autism spectrum disorders (ASD). However, the causes and consequences of ASD symptoms in ADHD are understudied. Also, the relative contributions of ADHD, on the one hand, and comorbid disorders, on the other, to the course of social impairments are unknown. Social dysfunctioning in children with ADHD appears to increase their risk of later psychopathology other than ADHD. Thus far effective treatment for social dysfunctioning is lacking. Future research should address the exact nature and long-term consequences of social dysfunctioning in children with ADHD, and focus on development of effective treatment strategies.

In other words, yes, ADHD can present with those kinds of social impairments without actually being diagnosable with an ASD.

The only evidence I have found for a diagnosis of AS was something his mother said on 60 minutes, which is a much thinner thread on which to hang "the crown diagnosed him with AS" than a professional's report stating explicitly that he does not have AS leading to the conclusion that he does not have AS.

I want to drop this, but I wanted to answer statements you made in your previous post.

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10 Dec 2012, 12:08 am

Conduct disorder is what they call children so the child doesn't have to live with the stigma of the label of psychopath. When the kids get locked up for shooting a clerk while robbing 7-11 of $18.47 they graduate to the label of psychopath.

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10 Dec 2012, 12:09 am

Rascal77s wrote:

You have a way with words.

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10 Dec 2012, 1:37 am

Verdandi wrote:

Rascal77s wrote:

You have a way with words.

Poetry right?

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10 Dec 2012, 3:31 am

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Tech_massacre

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10 Dec 2012, 4:44 am

ProvokesThinking wrote:

Ganondox wrote:

ProvokesThinking wrote:

LabPet wrote:

OK, in all sincerity, I think you're considering those rare individuals who are truly on the fringe of society.

Don't we all sometimes watch the tv news, encountering the rare news story about a horrific killer (e.g. Brevik (sp?)), realising that these rarities, these psychopaths amongst us, are truly outside the scope of humans we engage with each day. Psychopathic individuals who are so profoundly mentally disturbed, so pathologically twisted, that their diagnosis is a moot point. In actuality, even the most astute diagnostician cannot accurately diagnosis any such monster, because they're horrific behaviour is so grossly out of bounds such that it no longer matters. For instance, I think most intelligent people will confidently agree that Hitler was a heinous individual. That's a given. What was actually wrong with Hitler? Was his mother mean to him? Was he mistreated as a child? From my standpoint, who cares? It no longer matters. What matters is the wake of horror such a monster can propagate. This is what psychopaths feed on. Our societal rules, our ethical values, are discarded in light of such monsters. Jack the Ripper lived in another time that was another culture, but he too was in that peculiar shady realm of hate.

It is important for us all to remember that autism/AS is merely a diagnostic label, and nothing more or less. There is greater diversity amongst Aspies than amongst the general populace. To try to disseminate who these psychopathic monsters actually are is like trying to find the root cause of, say, an earthquake of another disaster. Such preponderance is beyond any one of us. A philosopher will surmise that there is a killer within us all. Well, yes, even the most normal/healthy people (NTs and Aspies alike) can hate. Who hasn't hated, say, their boss? Their mean ex-bf or gf? But we are confined by our ethics and our morality - we are not heinous self-serving monsters.

There is a saying to never ask why. That is, when one has wronged us so horribly, it is natural to ask why?!? Then we can make ourselves literally sick trying to work out why, when there truly is no answer. Suffice to say, there is evil in this world. Just know, and have faith (in a non-religious way, if you know what I mean) that these monsters who are so callous are rare. So rare that most of will never encounter one vis-a-vis (hopefully) and we can only watch them on our tv news, within the safety of our 'normal' world. Aspies are good, we are safe, and we sometimes ask why too much.

I, as an undiagnosed Aspie, doesn't agree with you that all Aspies are good. Maybe you and me are good Aspies, but I just can't be convinced of claims by people here that ALL the Aspies, 100% of them are good people, I just can't believe that there aren't Aspies who have a combination with psychopathy and/or are just plain evil, but are autistic too. I think that if an Aspie is depressed enough and is hated by enough people it's very well possible for a very small part of allt he Aspies to turn into a very agressive being who wants to hurt other people, the fact that you are an Aspie doesn't mean that you can't have a brain defect which gives you a small remorse. What I 'm interested in though is if there are Aspies who have a combination of psychopathy and who lie all the time for instance, while they are autistic too. This is because one of my obsessions is psychiatry and this is something what I really wonder about.

But if we convince ourself that all aspies are good and only the other knowingly commits evil than we can feel better about ourselves!

That makes you lie to yourself about reality, in my opinion. By the way, seeing yourself as a group against another group is fascist in my opinion, that's why I disgust people who like to be part of a group. I prefer being autonomous, maybe due to my autism, but I like to be independant.

I was being sarcastic.

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10 Dec 2012, 4:47 am

Dillogic wrote:

Verdandi wrote:

I really can't agree with your assertion.

Just from your text [and some memories]:

-Disturbed since childhood = some form of developmental disorder or conduct disorder, though both often go together (PDs don't fit due to age)
-Mr Bryant craves attention of others = not congruent to an AS
-He desires relationships but fails to effectively communicate with others = that's describing Asperger's
-... unlike the patients with Asperger's who are blandly indifferent to others = nope
-... repetitive activities, unusual skills with all absorbing obsessive interests and problems with motor coordination = he had an obsession over firearms, and said article points this out later on (he even lectured on about it to the author, an AS symptom), effectively a contradiction; the same for motor milestones at an early age
-Frequently bullied at school = duh
-only one friend, who was 40 years older than him and female = known AS symptom
-had a single GF
-would travel to meet "normal people"; he'd inappropriately approach people and not know why they're turn his advances away; he listed liking plane travel because people couldn't move away from him = AS stuff there
Prostitutes and escorts = AS there, especially that he couldn't attain relations due to social difficulties, despite being good looking
Obsessive ruminations = possible AS, especially over social failures from the past

and it goes on and on. Entirely in your face if you know more than the average bear about Asperger's/ASDs

The only point that contradicts a diagnosis of AS is the delay in speech, but then you can say he had Autistic Disorder

The only thing there that suggests AS is the obsessions, everything can be explained with the countless other diagnoses piled on him. It's not in your face at all.

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10 Dec 2012, 5:02 am

Dillogic wrote:

Conduct disorder is also common amongst those with an ASD. Though I think it's more early-onset sociopathy in his case (undiagnosed).

The characters "auti" and "aspe" appear nowhere on the wikipedia page for Conduct Disorder, and the only place "conduct disorder" is mention on the page for autism is in the template for Mental Disorders at the bottom of the page. I'm pretty sure that if there was actually a significant connection between the two someone would have added it by now.

You seem to have a very warped idea of what autism is from what I can see from this and other threads you've committed on, seeming to think it boils down to some sort of mentally disabled version of psychopathy. Yes, there are those of us on the forum who have a warped idea that autism is something better than it actually is, but your view is no less harmful.

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10 Dec 2012, 5:21 am

The symptoms of ADHD can cause social problems, of course, but they aren't as marked as described in Martin, and Martin's seem to be due to actual delays in social development, rather than secondary to a symptom of ADHD. ADHD "shouldn't" make someone lack in the ability to effectively communicate with peers.

Dr Sale was the Crown's psychiatrist who diagnosed him with AS. His mother just confirms it. He would see professionals frequently still, and if there was any change, I'm sure it would have been noted.

Ganondox,

When they're all together, there's not much else that can describe it; the social deficits and delays listed in addition to other developmental delays and repetitive interests, would point to a PDD.

Though that's just one person with a verifiable PDD (though Anders too). The PDD didn't make them do the things they did, but the underlying neurology when combined with other mental and environmental factors, "can" create a certain clustering of events such as these. In other words, the obsessive interest can point these people to certain events if there's other things also there that are needed. I'm sure Martin Bryant would have blown up the diner if that was his obsession. I'm sure Anders would have attacked another demographic if that was his. And so on and so forth, and this is one way that an ASD could theoretically contribute to the actual event, even though it's not a cause itself. The cause would be heaps of factors.

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10 Dec 2012, 7:15 am

Verdandi wrote:

Stoek wrote:

Yeah in my experience people with autistic were very commonly abusive to those around them.

Where did you come up with such experience? Because that's not something I've seen anyone else state in research or common discussions.

I'd agree with it. I can be like it myself and I know of others who are the same. It's the pressure of trying to fit in in public and often getting bullied and feeling you are a failure because of it and anger due to the unfairness of it all, then you often take it out on close friends and family. It's a very common theme.

We are far from being little saints.

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10 Dec 2012, 7:44 am

nessa238 wrote:

Verdandi wrote:

Stoek wrote:

Yeah in my experience people with autistic were very commonly abusive to those around them.

Where did you come up with such experience? Because that's not something I've seen anyone else state in research or common discussions.

That is the fallacy of the excluded middle, also known as a false dilemma or black and white thinking. You have:

Very commonly abusive <------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> little saints

See all those hyphens? That's the middle ground that you left out of your retort.

I have not seen any indication that autistic people are routinely or commonly abusive to those around them. I did not say that none are ever abusive - I have seen abusive behaviors on this forum, after all.

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10 Dec 2012, 7:49 am

Verdandi wrote:

nessa238 wrote:

Verdandi wrote:

Stoek wrote:

Yeah in my experience people with autistic were very commonly abusive to those around them.

Where did you come up with such experience? Because that's not something I've seen anyone else state in research or common discussions.

How do you know the excluded middle contains people who aren't abusive when you aren't there?

I don't trust research/scientific studies

NTs lie like breathing and you expect their research to be accurate?

I don't

I trust what my eyes see and my ears hear and that's about it as far as the world is concerned

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10 Dec 2012, 3:39 pm

What about the Unabomber?

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10 Dec 2012, 3:43 pm

btbnnyr wrote:

What about the Unabomber?

What about him?

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10 Dec 2012, 3:48 pm

nessa238 wrote:

btbnnyr wrote:

What about the Unabomber?

What about him?

Does he wear sunglasses and a hoodie in Supermax?

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