Is it wrong to be verbose? Chased off another forum board...

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Yes they are NT forums. I am not sure if I am a weird NT or not though.

I am not attention seeking etc. I just like to provide enough relevant details so they can give me useful suggestions.

Are you rejecting most of their suggestions? Maybe that is why they are reacting badly to your posts. I don't think that verbosity alone would cause people to react so badly to your posts on that forum.

If you have autistic-style social problems or some problems deviating a lot from the norm, then it is natural for NTs not to understand what you are talking about, no matter how many details you give in your posts. They will always be thinking from an NT perspective about NT-style social problems.

I pointed out that I did not wish to take medications or get therapy.

I have a different way of thinking to them when it comes to offering advice as when doing so it is about helping the person you are trying to help. Therefore if the first piece of advice I offer is not going to work for them (perhaps they have already tried it and it did not work or the advice is not viable in their particular individual situation as not enough detail was provided) then I do one of two things:

1 I ask them questions to get more information and detail from them. I may be able to come up with something different in order to help them or something that will work better for them. I do not mind if someone does not take my advice because they do not feel it to be suitable...after all it about finding what will work for them not about my ego and being right. I am there to help the person not look good socially.

2 If I am not able to come up with any other possible solutions that they might like to try I will try to either refer them on to someone else to help them or go and find someone else to help them myself.

Most individuals only get upset about someone rejecting their advice because it wounds their ego. Ultimately it is not about my ego but about providing genuine assistance that will benefit the person I am advising. I do not mind taking time out to advise them even if they did not find my advice useful...it was my choice to take the time to offer that advice in the first place and I do not consider my time wasted even if I could not help them.

Therefore I often feel, that if someone attacks because you either disagree with them or tell that you do not wish to do something they have suggested (ie medications give me too many side effects and therapy has only ever made me worse in the past...plus I do not agree with many of the principles and theories behind the notion of CBT therapy and Westernised philosophies/Ideaologies as I consider them to be damaging to a persons psyche...Eastern philosophies are much better, Ie buddhism) that they are not so much trying to help as playing the good samaritan in public so that they can either give themselves the warm fuzzies (masturbate their egos as I call it) or look good in public (it is done for show, not out of a genuine desire to help the person).

Either that or they are very insecure and do not take any kind of criticism well. I often welcome some forms of criticism as it can help me improve my skills (for example...feed back on my academic assignments from a tutor and which is constructive). Some types of criticism are not useful to me however (ie being called names such as a troll)...those I will reject as well.

I am only interested in approachs which allow me to nurture and love myself (in the aforementioned nurturing way not an arrogant one) as well as those around me, not those approaches which can cause harm to a persons emotional well being such as Westernised Ideologies and philosophies based on silly notions such as telling a person who is upset over something that they are just 'attention seeking' etc. The person is most likely in genuine pain and was reaching out to someone for some kind of comfort (Ie a kind word, some understanding (which is my preference) or just a hug if the person is able to give them one and so on....depending on what is comforting to the individual involved. Remember it is about helping them not being right so you can masturbate your own ego!).

I was not suicidal and am not prone to suicide attempts, except during the time I was being bullied in my teen years a very long time ago (the meaning of life is the miracle of living...it is the gift of being alive: Cherish it always) but one day, with that kind of approach, it will push someone who is suicidal over the edge...

They should also NOT be diagnosing people on the internet and insisting that they take treatments for their diagnosis. They are not professionals, they have not run tests and well...they do NOT know all the details because they have not read them....

The method of attacking because someone said they did not wish to take medications or go to therapy (for example) also does not help the person as much as it attempts to publicly humiliate them and the attackers inaccurate armchair psychiatrist diagnoses and over exaggerations can unfairly damage a persons reputation. This can cause further emotional distress on top of an already upsetting situation.

I did point some of this out...yes.

What am I supposed to do, just nod and agree with something I do not agree with because they are unable to cope with an opinion that is different to theirs? Their approach can hurt people and can be damaging to that individual...this concerns me greatly. Am I just supposed to sit quietly and watch whilst they just carry on blindly?

Maybe I was trying to help them too...

Due to their reponse to something so minor as someone not wanting to take Westernised therapies or medication, making multiple posts and being verbose; and given that they are unwilling to consider all of necessary details when providing said advice, I wouldn't trust their advice anyway.

Not only is their approach sometimes harmful, but without sufficient understanding of someone's problem you cannot offer advice that is accurate or fully beneficial anyway.

Therefore I will no longer post on that forum for advice about such issues and I would recommend that those who use that forum also think about posting for genuine useful advice elsewhere...unless they want to be attacked for not doing something they have stipulated many times that THEY DO NOT WISH TO DO.

It is called being assertive.

When asserting oneself even a therapist will tell a person to

1 Explain to the other person that they feel upset by something another is doing ie I feel upset by your reaction towards me). This is not an attack on the person but merely an expression of your feelings.

2 Use the broken record technique to decline if you do not wish to undertake that action or do something they are insisting upon, especially if the people involved continue to push.

Ie:

"You need to take medication and go for therapy"

"I do not wish to go for therapy or take medication"

"You are in denial, you need medication and therapy"

"I do not wish to take medication or go for therapy"

"You are just attention seeking...and you are playing people and being manipulative"

"I do not wish to take medication or go for therapy"

and so on.

(Yes, I did at one point use some unkind words but only after they had attacked me in another thread prior (I was attacked in two different threads for trying to correct some inaccurate assumptions they had made by stipulating the facts) and one particular poster was following me around making snide comments. I became annoyed with them).

Exluding the unkind words, the above is what a therapist would tell me to do under such instances as they are trying to manipulate me into taking a course of action that I do not wish to take by humiliating me, criticising me and basically bullying me into it when I have already stated that I do not wish to take medication or go for therapy multiple times.

I have a right to assert myself and I am under no obligation to allow myself to be bullied into doing something I do NOT wish to do, especially by a group of people on an internet forum board (or elsewhere for that matter)!

If they do not like that, it is their problem.

Last edited by bumble on 18 Feb 2013, 8:28 am, edited 5 times in total.

verbosity in song. this is brilliant
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p74wVyVQgII[/youtube]

I tried to read all the way through. I really did. But I couldn't.

So, in a nutshell, you asked for their advice about some social problems. They gave you their advice. You didn't like any of it. Right?

Instead of saying something simple like "Meds don't seem to work for my system and I have already tried therapy and it didn't seem to help. Thanks for you ideas, though," you probably wrote a very lengthy post like the one above, right? And then another? And then another?

Not good.

Because you are on an NT forum and they responded to your response in an NT way. You cannot blame them for that. They cannot be any more AS than you can be NT. How could they possibly know what someone on the spectrum needs? They are not qualified to give advice in that area, and yet you asked them for advice. They did the best they could, and you responded by arguing with them and pointing out why every suggestion they gave you was wrong. I think it is very obvious why they got ticked off.

I think the lesson you can learn is that if you go to an NT forum for advice, you can expect NT advice. If you want AS advice, ask on an AS forum. But wherever you ask, no matter what feedback you are given--whether or not it is useful--it is best to be thankful of people's time and take what you can from what they give. Arguing about why they are wrong when it extends across days, or maybe even weeks, is not in anyone's best interest and to be honest, one could say that you are engaging in a bit of mental masturbation yourself by demonstrating that you can out-write and out-logic them. By showing your superior writing skills. Your superior thinking skills. I am not saying this to be mean, but you are asking for opinions and this is what I see. Maybe it is helpful feedback for you, or maybe it is not. But it's the only feedback I have for you.

I have made an official complaint regarding their attitude and responses to the Forum Owner and I will also make a complaint to the Site Owners if I am able to do so.

I have highlighted why I feel their behaviours to be harmful by copying and pasting the post I made above.

I have also pointed out that I live an isolated life, have little human contact (for various reasons...I am on disability and have physical health problems as well as social ones) am housebound much of the time and that I find being accused of 'attention seeking' when I attempt to reach out for social contact and support most distressing.

I doubt they will give me an apology (which is what I would like) but at least I feel better for having made a formal complaint through official channels.

That is good, but in the long run the only way any of it will be worth anything is if you learn something from your experience that you can take with you to prevent you from finding yourself in a similar situation in the future. People on forums are in no way obligated to provide you with support. But my experience has been that there are more than enough people who are willing to do so. You just have to make sure you allow them to. That might take some work on your part.

Good luck to you.

About all things, Valentines Days parties in schools.

It was in a section called "rant". And it was a rant.

Next, some half-wit, spoiling for a fight, asks, "if it was about her?". She had written something that was 180 degrees different from everyone else in the thread. Which is okay. Like, whatever

*sigh* Yee Gawds

No, drama queen, it wasn't about YOU. Had it been about YOU, I would have said, "Dear Drama Queen, blah..blah...blah. I'm not shy. It was in a section called "Rant", as in no comment is necessary.

That started a whole s**t storm on the thread again. I'm not posting on that topic anymore. Sort of like betting on cockroaches running on a floor. Yeah, it might be good sport, and win some money, but is it worth your time? Probably not.

I think the board people are yanking your chain. If you aren't out right "banned", then they are just screwing with you for s**ts and giggles. Let's kick the fence and see how much the dog barks.

If the board is just for "fun", then quit wasting your valuable minutes on the Earth there, or learn how to pick your battles. If something you post degrades into a crap storm after the second clarification, just drop the thread. Not worth your precious energy.

This is great advice. I love a good fight, and it is too easy to get sucked into battles that don't matter much.

Sometimes, people just enjoy seeing others melt down on the net.

Remember Usenet? Never underestimate someone digging up a post from 1996, and commenting in 2010. I don't see that done much anymore, but when Usenet groups where in full swing, that happened all the time. Usually in fanzine groups.

Bumble I don't know if this will be of help to you but I am posting it anyway.

I use a variety of other boards, one where I am close to 20,000 entries so it is the one I used most. I read all your points and because I do almost all of those, what I chose to do was on a new forum I write a small and precise explanation of ASD in profile and just ask people to be patient.

If you go to a new place and just announce it alfresco it looks like you are wearing a disability as a badge so to speak plus you would lay yourself open to trolls and bullies.

For me it has worked fine. Once I make some friends, they get to understand our 'ways' and in fact that is the best thing because some of the new friends might know someone or have someone autistic in the family so they kind of stick up for you.

Like last year around April time I made a thread for WAAD which was targeted by a troll and they sure stuck up for me there and after a while he did not post there anymore.

Having said that, when I do make errors I tend to laugh (with or without others) about them, learn and move on.

Being on NT sites has helped me also to look at, as you say, being too wordy and try to concentrate on writing what I need to rather than a book! Though many of us will understand that a lot of this comes from excitability and wanting to please others, that which is nothing to do so much with our condition but how we are as nice people, that is how I like to think of it anyway.

Hope that helps.

It took me a while to figure out what the problem is.

The group is a wrong fit for you.

It's like a homeschooling parent of an ASD child asking for support from a public school form. Then getting mad because the answers aren't supportive.

It's like a parent complaining about a 504 plan or and IEP to a homeschooler list.

It's like me complaining on a Bipolar support list that is geared towards holistic treatment, about my MAOI stopping working.

I'm on a Bipolar support list, and we have a member who is being "difficult". I want no medications, no I don't want to see a shrink, my therapist is an ass clown. HELP!

The list is a general one, that includes all the usual suspects, therapy, medication, blah...blah...blah...

Now, she is manic and every post is a huge screed on how the lists sucks, the suggestions suck, and she needs help NOW.

I truly feel bad for her, because she will wind up back in jail, again. She is manic as hell. The list can only do so much.

Example

*suggestion*

from her:

screed: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
It's a support group. You aren't helping.

*suggestion*

screed:
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxAs you see from my previous post, you misunderstood what I did. I need help, and you telling me something I already did isn't helping. (being put back on Lithium). And I don't usually act this way.

*suggestion, and post from 2001 from when she started using again, and ignored about 30 messages on getting help with phone numbers

screed+manifesto:
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I'm contacting the list owner. You think this list is your own giant play ground. Hope you all rot.

I found out today she is banned from the email list for 1 week. On our group, this is considered attention seeking behavior, whether the person knows it or not. Our group has been in an uproar for the past two weeks.

I'M NOT SAYING YOU ARE DOING THIS. This is an example on how it looks on the other end.

Please understand, the above is an example. I'm sure you were beyond polite. But on most support lists, when you start shooting down every suggestions, it's one of two things,

1) the group is wrong for you. Not a personal attack on what you want. Like grinding a square peg into a round hole. It doesn't work well for all involved.

2) you are attention seeking whether you know it or not. That doesn't make you terrible human, it means you need some IRL help, and is beyond the scope of most support boards/lists. Almost all support boards will outright ban members for a bit for this behavior.

If it was me, I'd start a Google search and find something closer to what you feel comfortable considering. It might be a mediation list, something out of the box totally that you can use.

Hold your therapist feet to the fire about working on issues. Sometimes the little beggars get lazy, especially if you aren't progressing.

Don't hold your breath on the list owner/forum owner replying. Usually they don't.

Take care. You are worth it.

Not when they are offering me support for symptoms I don't have....

Case in point:

I posted my video of George (see above lol). I got this response from someone who had been reading the threads the arguments broke out on...

"Do you have a little? I noticed George, and your attachment and friendship with him. He helps a lot, doesn't he? He understands when no one else seems able to or even willing."

-----------------------------

Firstly that is partronising and a bit offensive to me.

Secondly it was a light hearted video I filmed that merely entertained me to do so. I was being silly.

Thirdly George is a stuffed penguin that a close friend sent to me because he knew that I wanted to start collecting them after I saw the 'Criminal Penguins clip' on youtube from the David Attenborough Frozen planet documentary (I love David Attenboroughs stuff and I also love my various collections ). George cannot understand anything...he is an inanimate object for crying out loud.

And last but not least...George does not talk back to me and I only have ONE personalty..although it is rather a complex quirky one that is multidimensional and tends to confuse most people. I just have an over active imagination and like to do things in a slightly unorthodox manner sometimes. Its more fun. As I once said to my family when they asked me if I could be more normal please..."normal is boring". I also started school early as I was considered to be exceptionally bright and was referred to as extremely intelligent by my collages. I get a lot of A grades, even at University level study. People don't need to speak to me like I am backwards....I am, in some cases, probably smarter than they are.

Just because I get flustered, stressed and fail to remain emotionally calm when I feel am under attack by a group of individuals who are assassinating my character on a public forum board because they don't like my opinions or posting style that does not mean I have lost all of my marbles. Thank you!

(For those who do not know what a 'little' is (and I had to look this up myself) it is an alternate personality found in people with MPD (multiple personality disorder) and is often a very young (child).

---------------------------

I am getting similar comments about other things from people in the thread. For example....

I have had emails telling me not to commit suicide and that they have great compassion for me and care. All very sweet but I said I was upset...not suicidal.

I have been called a troll, an attention seeker, accused of needing medication for OCD (when in reality I was more just stressed out about their attack and was trying to work things out of my system so that I could let it go and get on with something else) and have had various other insults thrown at me, obvious or otherwise.

--------------------------

Talk about an over exaggeration. It is getting ridiculous.

The only support I need is to log off that site and get on with studying for my degree (I am doing a BSc in the Natural sciences with either a biology or earth sciences pathway...I have not decided yet, but at the moment am studying genetics and microbes).

Its a circus show on there. I have never seen anything quite so ridiculous in my life. I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

What I should do is go study!

I am even verbose when it comes to that...at first anyway. Simply because a lot of the understanding I have of the material is not in words in my head. It is either in pictures or it is just a sense of understanding...an intuition so to speak. In order to communicate non verbal ideas to people I have to find the right words...

This is another part of my process, so at first I will write down everything that is in my head before making it more concise later when I have found all of the words I need and my overall conclusions have been reached.

Some of my ideas also require verbosity because there are a lot of complex relationships or factors that all interact together. I do not need words myself to understand those relationships, but I do need to find the words when explaining them so that other people can understand them too.

Last edited by bumble on 18 Feb 2013, 1:40 pm, edited 7 times in total.

I concur, but only because I have an attention span of a gnat some days. I do a quick skim, and double back if anything catches my eye. I know a lot of people like to dive into every minute detail, so no biggie.

Ah see I have a fluctuating concentration span so it depends. If I find what I am reading or doing very interesting then I have amazing concentration span for it (ie when jigsaw puzzles were my main hobby I could sit and do them for 12 hours straight without moving except to answer a call of nature).

If I find something horribly boring I have the attention span of a gold fish and the memory capacity to go with it lol. However, I get around this by using a little imagination or coming up with a way of doing it that I find fun (a new system maybe...I love putting together systems) to make it more interesting for myself. Once that is done, my super concentration span is restored and its nicer than just nagging myself to go do some boring chore....

...Less stressful and not so claustrophobic as having too many routines (I prefer sameness in certain areas of my life (ie always have the same ice cream flavour etc) but don't like rules and routine unless they are absolutely necessary for functioning, I see them as slightly different things).

The tendency for people to misinterpret everything I am saying (except in academic arenas...especially in regards to my lecturers) is part of the main problem for me when it comes to socialising and being able to form friendships and relationships.

They take their misinterpretation and form an opinion of me that is highly inaccurate. I am then bullied, ridiculed and ostracised for their own delusional perceptions and lack of understanding.

I do not think as they do, they will not accept this.

I do not feel this is fair as I am being outcast by society for things I have not said or done.

I have also been heavily penalised for my ability. For everything I was praised for by teachers I was ripped to shreds and humiliated for by my peers.

People such as those on the forum board accuse me of lying about my life or my academic ability or other achievements, constantly imply I am not understanding them when it is they who are not understanding me, talk to me as though I am idiot and treat me as such, assassinate my character by claiming i have mental illnesses I don't have or that I am a fake or a troll and generally make my life a misery even if I ask them to please leave me alone or desist from harassing me every time I make a thread.

This why the forum thing bothers me so much. I feel forced to live a life of isolation because of it and that is what triggers my depression. I get lonely some days even if I am contented to be pottering around finding answers to my many curiosities or indulging my hobbies on my own on others. I also get stressed out when under attack by groups and can be a little nervous when meeting someone new.

This does not make me insane, dangerous, suicidal or in need of medications.

But people believe their BS then avoid me like I have the plague or something. I am far more harmless than they will ever be.

As I said it is getting ridiculous.

Last edited by bumble on 18 Feb 2013, 2:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.