Empathy myth

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I also scored at the low end (22) and I don't lack empathy, either. I am fairly certain, in fact, that I am more genuinely empathetic than many NTs in terms of understanding the suffering of others and feeling along with them. But as for "wheeling out the right response" (love that phrase), that's what I definitely don't do. I don't respond in more than practical terms if the person who needs support isn't someone I'm close to, and even when I do know them, hugging and cuddling and oooing and aaahing and "oh dear"s aren't my kind of thing. I'll listen and I'll offer practical help if I can, but I don't make a show of it. And I don't fake feelings. If empathy is a show, than "low empathy" is right. If empathy is what most people assume it is - the ability to understand another person's situation and feelings - then low empathy is an insult and totally off the mark.

I think some of y'all are confusing empathy and sympathy when you take that test. They are completely different concepts.

No. I'm not confusing anything. I am merely making the distinction between how the words are commonly understood and what they may - or may not - mean in psychology and psychiatry.

The problem is when the psychological and/or psychiatric meaning is lost when the words are used in everyday speech. Because that's how you get people who think that people with autism don't feel anything.

ETA: Look up empathy in the non-psychiatric dictionary of your choice, and you'll see why I'm angry.

I think there's a confusion of words in that "empathy" or even the more technical "theory of mind" can have at least three related, but distinct meanings:

First, there's empathy in the sense of realizing that others have emotions, intentions, and so on. This doesn't seem to be affected by autism-spectrum disorders, at least of the higher-functional sort (and in the lower-functioning sort might not be a consequence of the autism per se).

Second, there's actually placing value on others emotions and intentions. For example, a certain sort of sociopath might understand and correctly read others' intentions and emotions, but play them as if they were a slot machine. This is not quite the same as sympathy, but related. This also doesn't seem to be affected by autism-spectrum disorders.

Third, there's reading others' emotions and intentions. This is what people with autism-spectrum disorders suck at.

So, someone on the spectrum has empathy in the first and the second meaning, but not much in the third meaning. This may get misperceived by people around him not as a failure of communication but as a failure of caring, even if he does care very much. On the other hand, a certain sort of sociopath has empathy in the first and third meaning and may even excel at it but lacks it in the second meaning. This is what makes a "good" con artist. Real trouble arises when the environment, and especially authorities such as schools, mistake these two cases for each other.

What, exactly, do you consider empathy? You talk as if it's a well-defined concept, but I've heard and seen many different definitions.

Empathy can have several meanings, depending on who you ask. It's usually defined as the ability to be emotionally affected yourself by the emotions of others. However, some people consider empathy to be the ability to recognize emotions in others, but not necessarily feel them. And that test uses a wide range of questions, that address things such as your ability to express the appropriate sympathetic response, and your overall social skills. So I'd say it evaluates for a much broader sense of empathy.

I wondered what "do you follow current fashions" has to do with any kind of empathy. Apparently trying to fit in with the crowd has something to do with empathy. I.e. monkey herd behavior is also a component of empathy.

So, for instance, say I find professional sports boring. I can't fool myself into liking it by pretending to follow it, and thus can't participate in common "guy talk". That must mean I lack empathy. In other words being different than the norm is lack of empathy. lol. That or that particular question is a "control question" that has absolutely nothing to do with anything. I don't think there are any non-scored questions in that quiz though. It's a pretty simplistic quiz.

I also notice some questions are going to be correlated with the introversion/extroversion dimension which I don't see as having anything to do with any standard definition of empathy. Extroverts will automatically get a higher score because they enjoy socializing more and will hence feel more comfortable around people no matter what their actual level of empathy.

So yea, I agree. At least a few of the questions on this test seem to measure NTness or even just extroversion.

[quote="marshall"I.e. monkey herd behavior is also a component of empathy.[/quote]

You can have empathy without herd behavior, but it'd be hard to be good at herd behavior without empathy because you need to guess instinctively what the herd will do next if you want to move with it synchronously.

Only if you're decide to join a hipster herd. Most herds don't change that fast.

I scored 40.

On confusion: even clinicians no longer reliably understand the clinical meaning of empathy. Please note that empathising in its everyday, non-clinical meaning is still often a hurdle to diagnosis for many high-functioning autistic people because clinicians themselves think it means not being able to feel along with other people. There's also a telling remark quoted upthread about "shouldn't you be indifferent and focusing on dinosaurs" - from a therapist! And this failure by professionals to understand the clinical meaning of empathy wasn't new before that quote, either.

If even clinicians often don't understand the clinical meaning of empathy, it is worth discussing. It draws into question whether the clinical meaning is even still relevant, if hardly anybody, including professionals, uses it. You can't just reel out a clinical dictionary and end the discussion when this double-meaning makes the lives and diagnoses of real people difficult. Le me restate: clinicians often don't differentiate between the clinical and everyday meanings of empathy. It's infuriating. It absolutely warrants discussion.

And as a side note, personally, I think that the clinical denotation of empathy is complete and utter nonsense that almost looks as if it was set up to cause misunderstanding. It takes a commonly understood word and gives it a different meaning, largely to the detriment of non-neurotypical people. I really have to wonder.

I took it again, thought about the questions a little bit longer and then I scored 54.

But some of the questions are so hard to answer, don't you think?
For example: I am good at predicting what someone will do. or I can tell if someone is masking their true emotion.

I really have no clue if I am good at those things. Maybe I am, maybe not.

I took the test and I scored 7.

People have told me that it's like "being able to connect to other people's mind, and being able to feel what they feel".
I can't do that, so I guess I lack empathy, because I never feel emotionally connected to people, even if they're people I care about.

Does anyone know what "I'm at my best first thing in the morning" has to do with empathy?

Also what about...

"I live my life for today rather than for the future"?

"good manners are the most important thing a parent can teach their child"?

"I like to do things on the spur of the moment"?

"I can't relax until I have done everything I had planned to do that day"?

"I often start new hobbies but quickly become bored with them and move on to something else"?

"I would be too nervous to go on a big roller coaster"????????

"I like to be very organized in day-to-day life and often make lists of the chores I have to do"?

"I don't like to take risks"?



Anyways, I scored 48.

Yes, people with empathy live their life for today (people focused on the future are typically more focused on themselves)

People who believe that good manners are the most important thing for a child to learn --- lack of empathy

Spontaneity -- high empathy

Being overly planned -- low empathy

Not sticking with one thing --- low empathy

Too nervous to go on a roller coaster --- high empathy/high sensitivity

Too organized --- low empathy

Risk-averse --- high empathy

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp5326401.html#5326401

People who live their life for today are usually more "fun" and hence more likeable. Maybe they are more likely to be creative or artistic too, but maybe less disciplined and more likely to get depressed if they can't plan at all or are forced into a life that doesn't give them fulfillment. Is it necessarily empathy though? Or just something that might be vaguely correlated to empathy for NTs (though not necessarily aspies). To tell the truth I had no idea how to answer this one. I tend to plan things because spontaneity is too stressful, not because I like being boring. I score high "openness" on big 5 personality tests which would supposedly imply empathy, but I still have to plan things because flying by the seat of my pants == major stress. End result, I'm not sure how to answer this one and full honesty would require an "it depends" option.


This is another one I don't quite get. I can see someone low on empathy and high on empathy answering no for different reasons. Someone with low empathy might see good manners as pointless because they don't understand the social implications. Someone with high empathy might put "manners" low on the list not because they think manners are unimportant but because there are other moral traits they value higher. I answered "disagree" for the latter reason.


Can have more to do with stress tolerance than openness as I said before. Also, not all people high on "openness" are more empathetic. Some are reckless hedonists and some are very arrogant.


This would make aspies score more empathetic.


Confusing. I have high sensitivity in some situations but I like thrills too. I lake roller coasters. They are a very safe thrill.


I didn't know how to answer this either. I'm extremely organized with some things and totally disorganized with others.


I'm risk-averse when it comes to social things but I would like to chase storms and have climbed mountains, things most people see as scary. I absolutely love thunderstorms. As a kid I climbed things that freaked my parents out (I climbed a tree to get onto a neighbors roof when I was 7 or so)