Playing the Autism Card May Be Harmful to Humanity

Post Reply New Topic

Why? And why explicitly separate intelligence from "lower functioning?"

I guess I misunderstood what this thread was about. I don't really get much out of the "strictly Aspie" discussions about autism.

well so much for making people feel better about themselves...


alright then you all suck at life. How does that make you feel?

Huh?

Discussing autistic brain function within subgroup of high-functioning autism may be helpful for sorting out and understanding autistic traits, and ackshuly, this is how most cognitive research is done with subjects who fit research definition of high-functioning idiopathic autism not caused by known genetic disorder and without intellectual disability and epilepsy.

It is not meant to say that other subgroups are not worth studying, or that no one cares about eggsperiences of other autistic people, but only that it is easier to begin and make progress on verry merry berry complex topic if one starts with this constraint.

This is kind of hard to explain, but it will be made clear eventually. Verdandi, did you see the documentary, Best Kept Secret? I asked you this before. For one thing this thread is for people who are able to participate on it by understanding the concepts and enquiring into and discussing this material. None of the people portrayed in that film could do this. However, this does not mean no one cares about them; I surely do care, and I wrote today, I think on this thread, but maybe on the other thread, that understanding these concepts I am hoping to present here, mainly re encapsulation and also object relations theory could help parents of autistic children understand their children better, and even help people who are not autistic. The main subject is human brain function and the main object of observation is oneself, ones own brain function, specifically the area around language and speech, but also motor function and emotion, how it all fits together.. This is a key facet here..Anyway, thanks for not reacting, and you are perfectly welcome to discuss any kind of autism anywhere on the spectrum here, as long as you in some way try to fit it into the topic of the thread, which is about comprehensive brain function. I value your participation.

Secondly, it is beyond my comprehension that anything any of the very low functioning autistics such as the teenagers portrayed in that video are doing could in any possible way be harmful to humanity. They just are doing their thing, whatever it is, whereas with very high functioning autistics it is a bit different. I know it is still perplexing what I am talking about. Sorry this is going so slow, but it has to be that way in order for me to appropriately present the material.

No offense, but after weeks of waiting for you to make some kind of point I've completely lost interest. Every time I peek in here you are still 'promising' to make everything clear, and now you are talking about slowing things down! I'm very patient, but not that patient

Yes, this thread is going to be a bit of a tough nut to crack, but those who persist will get the food. As I have said in the past, in certain contexts slow is fast. To those who cannot understand the concept of approaching in this way, it is for me a deliberately cultivated approach..When material is presented too fast, the mind will not be able to make new connections but will automatically jump to making the same old mechanical associations. In short," automatic," a wonderful and very necessary function of the brain is degraded to "mechanical.". Even if a person does grasp a new concept for a moment, the mind will slip back into the same old groove. According to this principle as given in a story from Aesop's Fables, the tortoise beat the hare.

This is a classic principle of conscious data processing. If you go too fast you will process data in the same old way, but if you are trying to look at material from many different angles and not the same old angle, then going slowly actually saves time. A stitch in time saves nine.

Before I reply to Vernandi, a comment to all past and present active readers and conscious participants: this thread is just getting started. I will be presenting some very interesting ideas about autism here and about human intelligence.Looking on the internet, what is quite fascinating to me is how little people understand about autism. Obviously, though maybe not obvious to some, an autistic person observing and studying his own subjective brain function is one good way to find out a lot, and this opens up a discussion about the difference between hard science and soft science and the potential value of soft science, a topic I am not ready to go into quite yet.

Where have we gotten so far? Well, for one thing we have determined that playing a certain card is different in certain contexts...the card can change value according to the game, so it is a mental construct.

Secondly, we have begun to look at the functional value (advantages and/or disadvantages) of lumping certain kinds of people who are in many ways really quite different under the same category.

To Verdandi, I love your questions. To me you are cutting edge smart. What I wrote (see quote in box) can be read two ways. The way you read it did make sense, but if you tilt the picture slightly sideways, it can also be read that it is about aspie brain function and also intelligence, meaning intelligence in general. Is the latter actually what I meant? I am not quite sure. Your question is good. This is the kind of participation I am looking for. You can see in terms of grading and sorting in terms of thinking about and relating to other human beings, there are kind of two different standards, generally speaking. I feel I want to include certain people or things, but from the perspective of arranging things to actualize a specific aim or function, I cannot always do that, and this can be sad. However I do think that understanding oneself is the key to understanding and ultimately helping others. To me you are a high functioning person as compared to the young people in Best Kept Secret who can hardly speak (or barely read and write, if at all). I genuinely believe if we understand our own brain functioning better it will help us be more intelligent and so more likely to be able to help other people become more intelligent and so ultimately to help themselves.

I want to write a somewhat lighter message today, but just as 'slow' can be fast, 'light' can be heavy.To continue, this thread is getting a lot of hits. I think it is because human beings in general are interested in understanding their own brain function. I started writing about my deep personal suffering as a high functioning autistic and about how one of my two children and maybe the other one, also, is autistic blah blah, but deleted it. Imo, it is of value for people to tell and share their own personal stories, and when I am having a one on one with person I am just getting to know,, even a customer, .I generally ask the person, "what is your story?"...but on the internet in terms of cutting grease and getting straight to the interconnected underlying humanity, there may not be time for each and every person to do this. In short, most people have suffering, quite a bit of it subliminal, and nobody wants to suffer; everybody wants to be happy, and people are trying to learn how to do that, plus most people have an altruistic motivation toward each other, though this general good feeling for ones brother is often obscured by a lot of garbage.There is one further factor--most people's stories about themselves are just that, stories, in that certain elements simply are not true and other true things that have actually happened are too painful to remember. or if remembered, are too painful to be touched upon by speech, even within oneself by inner speech. I would like to explore this further in the future, here and/or on the Catfish thread.

Why is The Big Bang Theory such a popular show, aside from being a quite well written and well acted comedy? I think it is because the average so called neurotypical identifies himself with the main character, a high functioning autistic physicist named Sheldon. 'Ordinary' people see themselves and the 'ordinary' people around themselves in him. (I think it is possible to watch some episodes of this show online). Anyway, what is one of the main characteristics of Sheldon? He is self centered, a narcissist.. They make it funny on the show, and the other characters are quite accepting of this, but actually this is not a characteristic to be proud of.

Not much more time to write now, but next perhaps would like to explore if people are smart. It is my contention that most people are really quite smart while also at the same time, not so smart. So, if this is true, what is the implication? It is that most people can probably be smarter.

Each person wants to find the truth of his life and connect this truth with other people. That is a natural urge.We are all tribal in the sense that we need each other and this is how humanity has survived and evolved. All human culture has developed around this principle.

Are people smart? Yes. Very smart. Look at the things they/we are able to do and make. It is sheerly amazing, and yet at the same time, look at the stupidity of some of this making and where it is leading. Roughly, I think, there are two tendencies, one to embrace interdependence and consciously participate from this angle, to which is connected the altruistic motivation, which is natural. The other tendency is toward individuation and for an individual human being to develop his own autonomy and intellectual capacity to the nth. To consciously reconcile these two tendencies would be to become a self actualized human being, so to become as smart as possible, but not just for the sake of ourselves, alone, as ultimately this would not be very smart.

Are there different kinds of brains? Definitely. Some people are obviously smarter, and I think genetic brain function is a major factor, plus certain cultures that have formed in different locations on earth around specific populations of people have definitely amplified this, but most people are basically pretty smart--again,-look at the things people have made--, and, imo,most people are potentially much smarter than they realize, and his is a key point, but also, most human brains are basically the same, so being "smarter" and being "the same" need to be reconciled.

This is the next point I would like to get to which touches on the subject of autistic encapsulation----in some (but obviously not all) ways becoming socialized past a certain point can make a person less smart.

To anyone participating please read my short message on this other thread, as there are a couple of points that relate to the topic here. I will discuss it tomorrow.

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp5700973 ... t=#5700973

Go directly to jail.

Do not pass "Go".

Do not collect 200 dollars.

I would love to get to know more people better, but that is hard.

In that message I wrote:

and

Put these two concepts together and what you get is a new way of looking at things in that both of these are connected with perception. An interesting word, perception, actually, as it is always contextual. All hard science can do is discover certain underlying laws and principles, but human emotion (connected to action) can destroy or save the world. And, yes, there are also underlying laws and principles of what moves a human being, but when a person is moving it is faster than thinking about these principles and trying to apply them.. For instance if each human being felt deeply transformational great love for his brother and valued his brother as himself, the world would be changed instantly, as for example, women would no longer be buying two hundred dollar pair of shoes, but would joyfully give this money to poor people. This, will not be happening, at least not now, but if you are a poor person and someone gives you two hundred dollars just because they like you and want you to be happy, this will make a lasting impression.

So what is a lasting impression? Can a brain be physically changed forever by an act of human kindness? I think it can, though this characteristic is is not genetically inheritable. None the less, it is obvious that changed brain function of human beings, depending upon the degree and extent, can in some way affect present and future generations.

Please think about this for a while, as I am eventually going to try to relate all of this to the subject of autistic encapsulation.

Edited immediately after writing this and just now clicking back onto the page to see my message--- I did not see the two messages preceding this one when I wriote this message and made the comment about giving away the two hundred dollars:-) So that is a coincidence........

Thank you for posting this. It is thrilling for me to be around smart people, especially since I have some kind of brain damage, and interacting with such people helps me think better.

You have capsulized the conundrum, or as the B girl might put it, eggsactly:-)

Obviously the situation is not just locational but also contextual and also it is possible to be out of jail and yet still be 'in', figuratively speaking, that is...

And I never mean to discount the suffering so many here have experienced and are still experiencing. I have been through horrible stuff myself---it is kind of amazing I am still alive-- and to this day I am having a big struggle...ideas are interesting, though, and can change the way a person thinks about things and so interacts with the world--.glass half empty or glass half full is a prime example.......

...

I have not played Monopoly for many years, but the human brain is quite flexible, though a person can get into a groove or rut about how he is processing data, and once this happens and becomes more and more ingrained, then to change this would be very difficult, even next to impossible...

but not impossible...

In terms of perception, we always need to go back to start, in a sense, but "start" is what we already know (or where we are when we know what we know. So we are where?-:) The question is the key to orientation, if there is a question. It does not have to be a literal question but can be a state of mind. Without this state of mind new data is factored in mechanically according to what we (think/feel we) know. Sometimes, in certain instances, if something new is presented, a person can understand it right away; he can SEE it. This doesn't mean he does not have to work through a certain process, some of it maybe very painful, but it is different when there is a direction to go in that makes sense, so an orientation; then it is like finding ones way home. The journey may be difficult, but one has an orientation; one can feel from within where home is..It is magnetic, so being on a certain tape, and I think not alone. It is being with someone or other on the same tape, not so much in regard to particular ideas, though ideas can act as landmarks, stations and even parameters for the making of various frameworks, but more in relationship with knowing where one is. So there are two versions in conjunction, is and 'is," much like a particular arrangement of stars in the sky. This is the magical dichotomy of orientation which translates into going.