I hate weapons.

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01 Mar 2007, 6:05 pm

I read in your profile that you are a 'poor laborer'.
You probably work around 40 hours a week for a pittance ( like most of the population.)

The gun-runners of the world do nothing. They live in extreme wealth. This is what i mean by 'lording it over you'.
( I'm not talking about defence of property from petty thiefs.)

lau
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01 Mar 2007, 6:08 pm

asperion wrote:

Weapons are good for us — they help us grow up big and strong!

I thoroughly agree.

Of course, you do have to survive them.

Personally, I've always liked Robert Heinlein's idea of "Rational Anarchy", from "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress". So... "If anyone out there is favour of guns for everyone, step this way. I'll shoot you. Less messy if it's all kept in one place."

T-rav20
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01 Mar 2007, 6:25 pm

Kosmonaut wrote:

I read in your profile that you are a 'poor laborer'.
You probably work around 40 hours a week for a pittance ( like most of the population.)

For the moment, yes. That's why I have a brain, I don't intend to earn my keep with my hands forever.

Kosmonaut wrote:

The gun-runners of the world do nothing. They live in extreme wealth. This is what i mean by 'lording it over you'.
( I'm not talking about defence of property from petty thiefs.)

What do you mean by 'gun-runners'? If you mean
A) People in the firearms industry- They earned it, either through innovation, hard work, or whatever, they came by their money honestly, they deserve it.

B) Illegal firearms sellers- They commit crimes. they will either wind up in jail, or die at the end of their products.

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lau
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01 Mar 2007, 6:36 pm

T-rav20 wrote:

Kosmonaut wrote:

Those who 'lord it over' will continue to do so, from now until you die. No firearm will defend you.

People don't 'lord' anything over me, and a firearm will ensure that never happens.

Such naive confidence. Guns ensure nothing. They escalate situations. From bruises to holes. From pain to death.

T-rav20 wrote:

... someone who doesn't play by the rules.

I firmly do not play by the rules. That would be dumb of me. If I see you with a gun, I will kill you first. I may regret doing so, but I will not wait until you have a chance to pull the trigger.

And... thanks to this little flame war, I've just had occasion to Google my old Kung Fu teacher. If anyone's interested... Lajos Jakab. Off researching for a bit...

T-rav20
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01 Mar 2007, 6:51 pm

Lau wrote:

T-rav20 wrote:

Kosmonaut wrote:

Those who 'lord it over' will continue to do so, from now until you die. No firearm will defend you.

People don't 'lord' anything over me, and a firearm will ensure that never happens.

Such naive confidence. Guns ensure nothing. They escalate situations. From bruises to holes. From pain to death.

Which is exactly why I don't escalate situations. You draw a gun when your life is thretened, you damned well better be ready to use it, and you better have a damned good reason for doing so, defending aganst a murder charge can be expensive.

Lau wrote:

T-rav20 wrote:

... someone who doesn't play by the rules.

I firmly do not play by the rules. That would be dumb of me. If I see you with a gun, I will kill you first. I may regret doing so, but I will not wait until you have a chance to pull the trigger.

See above, unless you try to kill me, you won't ever know I have a firearm.

Lau wrote:

And... thanks to this little flame war, I've just had occasion to Google my old Kung Fu teacher. If anyone's interested... Lajos Jakab. Off researching for a bit...

A. This isn't a flame war, It's a discussion.
B. A firearm isn't my only way of defending myself.

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lau
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01 Mar 2007, 8:21 pm

T-rav20 wrote:

.. unless you try to kill me, you won't ever know I have a firearm.

Isn't CCW a felony?

..... missing stuff .......

And now I've been really stupid, and it serves be right. Having typed in a load more rubbish, I accidentally clicked all the wrong buttons while looking up "skeet" versus "clay pigeon", and lost everything.

From what I remember, I waffled a bit about the uselessness of weapons. Also mentioned that I used to fence. Said I might try out modern archery.

Another strange item just surfaced in my mind. IIRC during WWI, something like six out of seven rifle bullets were fired into the ground. Not for lack of aim, but because soldiers generally didn't want to shot each other. I think the average went up during WWII when they started training soldiers to be mindless.

AutisticOne
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01 Mar 2007, 8:24 pm

I dont like violence either. But sometimes it must be used to protect yourself and others from violent people.

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T-rav20
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01 Mar 2007, 8:24 pm

Lau wrote:

T-rav20 wrote:

.. unless you try to kill me, you won't ever know I have a firearm.

Isn't CCW a felony?

In New Jersey, yes. Which is why I'm leaving soon.

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T-rav20
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01 Mar 2007, 8:27 pm

Lau wrote:

Another strange item just surfaced in my mind. IIRC during WWI, something like six out of seven rifle bullets were fired into the ground. Not for lack of aim, but because soldiers generally didn't want to shot each other. I think the average went up during WWII when they started training soldiers to be mindless.

Good for them, An ugly pointless war.

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Ceterum autem censeo, Carthaginem esse delendam

The following statement is True, the preceding statement was False.

I'm A PINEY from my head down to my HINEY.

Aspie1
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01 Mar 2007, 9:14 pm

I don't agree with hating weapons; they're a Great Equalizer. I saw this little poem on a billboard once. Read and remember.

Violent thugs
Won't dare attack,
If their victim
Might shoot back.

TheMachine1
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01 Mar 2007, 10:20 pm

T-rav20 wrote:

TheMachine1 wrote:

Kosmonaut wrote:

faithfully wrote:

Lau wrote:

Oh! And where does that "hate guns, hate freedom" rubbish come from?

History.

eh?

The US was founded by armed conflict. And people largely think that it will take armed conflict to maintain the status quo. That may very well be rubbish but you will have to change the way millions of people think to change that. Logic has very little to do with the situation.

They own firearms for myriad reasons, personal defence, hunting, fun, the enjoyment of owning and maintaining a well built machine, or simply because they're enjoying their natural right to do so.

But those reasons have nothing to do with the 2nd amendment. The purpose of the
second amendment is to permit civilians to defend themselves from a tyrannical government by possession of weapons.
be it foreign or domestic.

TheMachine1
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01 Mar 2007, 10:27 pm

Kosmonaut wrote:

Like the guy who died in Tianemen Square?
You think a pistol would have helped?

Civilian ownership of weapons does not a guarantee you will be able to defend yourself.
But it does guarantee that others can fight back. You do not stop tanks with handguns but communist officials being assassinated all over China would not be stopped by tanks either. Its a right to defend yourself from tryanny.

lau
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01 Mar 2007, 10:40 pm

Aspie1 wrote:

I don't agree with hating weapons; they're a Great Equalizer. I saw this little poem on a billboard once. Read and remember.

Violent thugs
Won't dare attack,
If their victim
Might shoot back.

I can see we have three camps here.

1) People who are completely pacifist and will let themselves be exploited mercilessly.
2) People who are non-pacifist, but have strange confidence in the magic of weapons that will somehow be only in their hands and not in the hands of their aggressor.
3) People like me, who wouldn't hurt a fly, normally, but...

Anecdote:

I was going to my cousins funeral, where I was doing some of the organising, so I was carrying quite a bit of cash. We were having trouble finding the funeral parlour, and I had got out to walk around looking for it. This was in a rather un-salubrious part of East London. (That's an understatement)

I was smoking, there was no one else in sight, except for a guy who came up to me and, I forget the exact words he used, but he asked for a cigarette... not politely... more "demanded a fag".

I'm not too quick on the whole "body language" thing - but in this instance it was a bit like "shouting". If I gave him the cigarette, he'd mug me and earn himself about 300 quid.

What he wasn't ready for was me giving him a cigarette, but simultaneously asking him when the funeral parlour was. I exuded all the confidence of my Kung Fu training, even though I hadn't done any for twenty-add years.

He was completely confused, said "How should I know" and walked (almost ran) off.

The thing is, I still feel that confidence. I used to get "sand licked in my face". I learned how I didn't need to put up with it. I have never hurt anyone. The nearest I have come is... another story.

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01 Mar 2007, 10:45 pm

Lau wrote:

2) People who are non-pacifist, but have strange confidence in the magic of weapons that will somehow be only in their hands and not in the hands of their aggressor.

You're beginning backwards.

lau
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01 Mar 2007, 11:01 pm

maldoror wrote:

Lau wrote:

2) People who are non-pacifist, but have strange confidence in the magic of weapons that will somehow be only in their hands and not in the hands of their aggressor.

You're beginning backwards.

Que?

TheMachine1
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01 Mar 2007, 11:06 pm

Lau wrote:

2) People who are non-pacifist, but have strange confidence in the magic of weapons that will somehow be only in their hands and not in the hands of their aggressor.

Well in the case of the US the number of arms is so great that there is enough for every able body adult to have one right now (200 million guns ). That seen in the movie "V for Vendetta" where the crowd moves in on the troop just with their masks.
In the US that same crowd could all move with guns.

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