Seeing NTs as Empty Shells

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That is exactly what I see as well.
Those typical people that emulate psychopaths also seek to take advantage of aspies.

OR, she is observing from outside of the collective box because she is isolated from it, and they from her.

This happens to me, too. It's scary. I don't need a lot of people in my life either. I don't get much out of their company, and they don't seem to benefit from mine either, so I don't see what I or the other person would be missing out on. This is fine for me, because every time I do get closer to someone I am eventually disappointed, because they weren't the kind of person I thought they were (or wanted them to be), and most of all because I can't depend on them. It's one of the most maddening things in the world when someone is late, or when they make some other commitment to you and they don't follow through.

I don't see NT people as empty shells, but as irrational and overextended. I see my tendency to shut down from over-socializing as a safety mechanism, something they noticeably lack. They spread themselves way too thin because they want to get to know everyone else and get involved in this or that, forcing them to check their phones constantly and run around from one appointment to the next, and the result is that they're very rushed and unreliable when I actually need their help with something. Most people could probably drop half the commitments they've made and still lead a fulfilling life.

After reading some of the responses here concerning OCD, I'm starting to think I have this as well. The preoccupation with "fairness" and making everything "right" before I can let go of it and move on, constant intrusive thoughts that I can't control--those things still happen to me. I also made a lot of strange noises as a kid like grunting, clearing my throat and such. It used to drive my mother crazy. These days I just talk to myself. I constantly worry that I don't have Austism or OCD or depression or anxiety, and that I'm just a weak, pathetic man who was meant to be awkward and miserable. I'm trying to get a diagnosis, because if nothing else, at least it will help me shake some of that off.

Yes, isn't it. My Mother dragged me up proper like. She taught me, "If you say you're going to be somewhere at a certain time, you be there!" (I show up on the dot.) "If you say you're going to do something, you do it! And if I can do it, you should be able to too!", but that's not often the case.

My sister is the complete opposite. You can always count on her being at least 45 minutes late.

During my first trip out of the U.S. I found myself staying overnight in the international airport in Istanbul. I experienced something notable during that time as the area was full of people and voices, all speaking a language that I could not decode. I really hadn't seen any of their body language before either, so I was getting almost no information from them.
In a sense it was as if they were all empty shells. It doesn't matter that much that they all have minds and can communicate with each other.
What is relevant is that they couldn't communicate with me, or I with them. A similar situation exists between myself and a rock, or the cardboard cutout as mentioned.

Physically those people were clearly animals just like I am. That's the reality, but psychologically they were separated from me by many layers of abstraction.
The only possible way we could connect would be to work within imagination until our imaginations start to share some common algorithms.

In other terms, we would obviously have to work with a common language, - most likely me learning theirs.

I think this whole situation is very analogous to the ASD experience in a world of NTs.

I think so too. That's a really good way of explaining it.

I have witnessed entire conversations between NTs that might as well have been in a foreign language, because they made no sense at all to me.

I wouldn't exactly say I see NTs as "empty shells," but....well, if you've seen the recent film adaptation of "The Giver" and recall how everyone in The Communities was monochromatic in color, dispassionate, emotionally distant, superficial, critical, intrusive and exacting - that's more or less how I see NTs.

If NTs have that issue too, then why is poor theory of mind still considered (part of) a disorder? It ought to be thought of as normal and average if that is the case.

I do get what you're saying. I see other people as being more simple than me, less complex. I don't take into account that they might be deep and interesting and passionate. I go around with this idea that they're not. I also have this illogical assumption that people know what I know and believe or think what I think. When I found out they have their own opinions it surprises me.

I have an issue with lack of theory of mind being part of an autistic diagnosis. Apparantly people with Aspergers feel strongly about social justice and always fight for the underdog? It seems like they would actually have the ability to see from this less popular perspective than most people, which would mean greater theory of mind, wouldn't it?
Plus, there are studies showing that children with greater theory of mind are the ones who display more social anxiety. Because they realize other people may be judging them.... so, if those with aspergers lack theory of mind, why do they feel anxious in social situations? Why are they aware that people are judgemental and critical where "normal" people seem to be unaware of this fact? If they knew how judging and critical people can be would they still be so out going and confident?

Last edited by senecafox on 21 Oct 2014, 1:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

You avatar is eggsellent.
I really like the fennec fox.

Perhaps saying that there is a lack of TOM is not as accurate as saying that there is a lack of theory of the hive mind. Could that be possible?

Actually I just re-read the definition of Theory of Mind and it does seem accurate to say. I also read a different study that people with Social Anxiety also lack theory of mind, but in a different direction of those with Autism. In Autism, ToM seems to be lacking or non existent, in Social Anxiety Disorder, people hold false beliefs about just how much others are judging and criticizing them.
Social anxiety is not part of an Aspergers diagnosis.... but some people may experience both at the same time.
I'm just a little confused on how you can have both Aspergers and Social Anxiety if they kind of contradict each other.
And I still don't get why those with Asperger's have a strong sense of social justice.... maybe it's because when you lack theory of mind, in a way you see others as yourself. So you don't have strong feelings of belonging to one specific group and this ends up being positive in that you view humanity as "one". So maybe there is actually a stronger sense of collective consciousness due to the lack of theory of mind, leading you to see others as yourself. So when there is injustice on the other side of the world, where others hold their ungroup biases (or whatever) and don't seem to care, those who lack theory of mind feel like you hurt them, you hurt me.... or something like that.