"Nerd syndrome" - a mild PDD, misnamed as (S-)NLD
https://books.google.pl/books?id=SU9-LSh4HgcC&pg=PT986&lpg=PT986&dq=palombo+2a+subtype+nvld&source=bl&ots=pDQQJdAZmA&sig=l9q4Rqs8P8zFQAt1OkAmZWE2tS0&hl=pl&sa=X&ei=bgxOVZvHEMOwUfyWgdAK&ved=0CD8Q6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=palombo%202a%20subtype%20nvld&f=false Handbook of Pediatric Neuropsychology, redaction: Andrew S. Davis PhD (fragment):
Some researchers advocate the use of the NVLD phenotype as a heuristic model for understanding AS (Schultz, Romanski, & Tsatsanis, 2000; Volkmar & Klin, 2000). Brumback, Harper, and Weinberg (1996) suggested that NVLD should actually be included under the diagnosis of AS and that AS represents a severe form of NLD.
http://www.ldinfo.com/nld.htm
So why has the NLD term made such a dramatic comeback in recent years? Well, as with many other educational theories which lose favor and then are later resurrected, it seems that psychologists and other educational diagnosticians have found reason to believe that certain subgroups of LD students not only demonstrate the old 'verbal vs. nonverbal' discrepancy but also frequently demonstrate other social and behavioral characteristics which set them apart from other LD students. These characteristics frequently include difficulty accurately perceiving social situations, confusion with nonverbal communication, and generalized social disinterest or avoidance.
Generalized social disinterest? For me it looks not as a learning disorder, but as a PDD.
Not all sorts of “nonverbal learning disabilities” cause social ineptitude, especially in childhood. I would classify that sorts of “NLD” which cause “social disability” as pervasive developmental disorders and sorts of autism. Social/emotional issues of “NLD” described in Dinklage’s article are symptoms of something more serious than just a LD for me. For me sorts of “NLD” which has such issues are types of “aspieness”, not (only) learning problems!
http://luckyottershaven.com/2015/04/09/how-does-aspergers-syndrome-differ-from-non-verbal-learning-disability-nvld/comment-page-1/#comment-15691
For me this diagram is not so good. "Classic Asperger's" is more similar to childhood autism (Kanner's syndrome) than Rett's disorder and childhood disintegrative disorder. Classic AS and Kanner's syndrome belong to one "etiological" spectrum, they are so similar! Rett's and CDD are significantly other than Kanner's and are of other families of PDDs in my opinion, unlike "classic AS".
For me much of "NLD" cases are cases of PDD due to "Aspergian" symptoms such as for example:
- one-sided conversation,
- fixated interests,
- "loner" personality,
- lack of basic social skills,
- unusual thinking etc.
And I would name this sorts of "NLD" as sorts of autism! Non-Aspergian NLDs do not contain symptoms listened above. These sort of NLD are not sorts of psycho(neuro)developmental syndromes characterised by social inadequacy and peculiarity.
Not all sorts of (developmental) autism should be associated with:
- lack of theory of mind,
- lack of central coherence,
- language and speech problems,
- sensory processing anomalies,
- rigid thinking and routines etc.
These symptoms are characteristic only for one sort or family of something which I would name as "(developmental) autism".
Non-Verbal Learning Disability (NVLD)
A. NVLD can be conceptualized as an imbalance in thinking skills—intact linear, detail oriented, automatic processing with impaired appreciation of the big picture, gestalt or underlying theme.
B. It is not nearly as common as language-based learning disabilities, but this may be a phenomenon created by environmental demands (i.e. our societal demands for precision skills in reading assure that even the most subtle language-based LD cases are identified)
C. Typically social/psychiatric concerns are raised before academic problems are identified.
D. While the overlap is not complete, NVLD children may meet the criteria for Pervasive Developmental Disorder Not Otherwise Specified (PDD NOS), Aspergers Disorder, or Schizotypal Personality.
Neuropsychological Profile (NVLD):
–Full range of IQ
–Visual spatial deficits are most pronounced: poor appreciation of gestalt, poor appreciation of body in space, sometimes left side inattention/neglect, may have highly developed but ritualized drawing skills that are extremely detail oriented.
–Rote linguistic skills are normal (i.e. repetition, naming, fluency, syntactic comprehension), but pragmatic use of language is impaired: weak grasp of inference, little content, disorganized narrative despite good vocabulary and grammar. Rote recall of a story may be good, but the main point missed. Rhythm, volume, and prosody of speech are often disturbed.
–Motor and sensory findings are common: usually poor fine and gross motor coordination, left side worse than right.
–Attention is usually reported to be impaired and testing supports this, but the affect is desultory as opposed to distractingly impulsive, as in ADHD. It is as if people with NVLD do not know what to attend to, but once focused, can sustain attention to detail. The distinction between figure and ground is disturbed, resulting in attention errors.
Academics:
–Difficulties are often picked up late because decoding and spelling may be quite strong.
–Inferential reading comprehension is weak relative to decoding and spelling skills.
–Math is often the first academic subject to be viewed as problematic. Spatial and conceptual aspects of mathematics are a problem; math facts may be readily mastered. I.e., a student may know the answer to a simple multiplication problem, but not understand what multiplication is.
–Due to spatial and fine motor problems, handwriting is usually poor.
–Organization skills are weak, particularly in written work.
Social/emotional issues:
–Peer relations are typically the greatest area of impairment; may play with much older or younger children than with same age peers where they must manage give and take.
–They often lack basic social skills; may stand too close, stare inappropriately or not make eye contact, have marked lack of concern over appearance, be oblivious to other’s reactions, change topics idiosyncratically.
–Children with NVLD are seen as “odd” children who “just don’t get it” socially They may do better with adults, where they act dependent and immature, but may not be seen as “odd.”
–They may show poorly modulated affect, not matched to verbal content.
–Lack of empathy and social judgment may shield them from fully experiencing the hurt of peer rejection, while the same factors increase the likelihood of being rejected.
–History of unusual thinking can often be obtained: rituals, stereotypic behaviors, rigid routines, and magical/bizarre beliefs.
http://luckyottershaven.com/2015/04/09/how-does-aspergers-syndrome-differ-from-non-verbal-learning-disability-nvld/comment-page-1/#comment-15691
Social/emotional issues by itself are "aspieness" for me. If they can meet the criteria of PDD, why not to diagnose them with a PDD but just with LD? For me it is not fair.
An example of a definition of "nonverbal learning disability":
http://www.citelighter.com/science/psychology/knowledgecards/learning-disabilities
I suppose that NVLD from this definition might be not so similar to Asperger's.
Another text about so-called NLD:
http://www.ldame.org/docs/LDWnonverbal.pdf
Edward H. Jacobs, Ph.D.
Q: My child has been diagnosed with a Nonverbal Learning Disability. What is it, and how can I and his school help him?
A: Nonverbal Learning Disability (NVLD) is a processing problem that is not as well understood or recognized as other kinds of processing problems. Children with NVLD typically have very good verbal intellectual abilities, so they speak well and appear intelligent, which they usually are, but their difficulties with academic and social success leave their parents and teachers puzzled and questioning the child’s motivation, while the child is left feeling frustrated and defeated.
Their strong verbal abilities mask their underlying problems with processing nonverbal information: the information that we get from our visual and sensory-perceptual experiences and the organizational framework that we impose on what we experience, read, and write. Some examples might be helpful.
These children can often read a text very well, but find it difficult to articulate the main idea and how the different ideas, people, and events relate to each other. They might study for tests which they fail, because they lack an innate sense of what the most important things to study are and what is of secondary importance and should be studied only if there is time left after the major areas have been mastered. Their written work is often poorly organized with little flow from one topic to another, and their handwriting is often plagued by inconsistent sizing of letters and inconsistent spacing between letters and words, so it is often difficult to find where one word ends and another begins. These children might find it hard to follow directions in getting from one place to another and to master geography. They also find it difficult to mentally visualize information: to hold information in their heads as they work on it. Therefore, they might be unable to follow multiple-step directions that are told to them. They might appear to have an attention deficit whereas they actually can hold only a limited amount of information in their “mind’s eye” so to speak. This is the reason most of these children have trouble doing math in their heads. Mental calculations require the ability to hold numbers in one’s mind while one works on the numbers, maintaining place values while renaming and regrouping.
One of the primary causes of distress in the lives of these children is their social relationships. They find it hard to read social cues because of the need to quickly and automatically organize a great deal of information that is being presented simultaneously. If you think about it, when you are interacting with another person, you are filtering through an enormous amount of information every moment. You are processing what the person is saying, the volume and tone of his voice, your history with that person, and the person’s nonverbal behavior. This processing enables you to judge, without having to consciously think about it, whether the person means what he says, and if he is friendly or hostile. This continuous stream of information gives you feedback about your interaction as well, which you use to modify your behavior moment to moment, such as whether you should speak more loudly or softly, whether you are standing too close to the other person, and whether you are confusing, angering, or charming the other person.
It is easy to see, then, why children with NVLD have such difficulty making and keeping friends. They desperately want to have friends, but they don’t seem to understand how to fit in or what to talk about. They find it hard to “get” jokes. They often can discuss topics in which they are interested with adults, who appreciate their good verbal abilities, but their interests often aren’t shared by their peers. They often don’t excel at sports, leaving them left out of an important aspect of social belonging and status.
Being bombarded with a lot of simultaneous stimulation which they cannot sort through, filter and prioritize, such as what happens during transitions times at home (such as when everyone is coming home from school or work, or during unstructured time at recess) can result in the “system” shutting down, causing frustration which in turn leads to withdrawal or tantrums. These children are then viewed as having emotional problems, which further distracts adults from attending to their processing difficulties.
Unfortunately, it is the strong verbal intelligence that these children have that often prevents them from being identified early. Since school-based learning is largely language-based, the intellectual strengths of these children are readily apparent, while their underlying disorganization is not recognized as a true processing problem. There are characteristics on psychological tests that help to identify these children, but many children do not neatly fit the diagnostic profile cleanly, so a diagnosis should never be ruled in or out solely on the basis of test scores. School districts too often place too much emphasis on the scores or the numbers in deciding whether or not to identify a child as being in need of services. These children, for example, usually perform relatively well on tasks that depend on language skills, and poorly on visual-spatial tasks. Schools, therefore, usually look for a very large discrepancy between the child’s Verbal and Performance IQ scores, with very low scores evident on specific visual-spatial subtests. It is possible, however, for these children to use their significant verbal abilities to compensate for their weaknesses and do better than expected on some of these tasks, and not on others. So the tester might not have used visual-spatial tasks that were sensitive to a particular child. There is no substitute for sound clinical judgment, in which the child is viewed as a whole person, not just a compilation of test scores.
Several things can be done to help the child with NVLD. They can learn to use their superior verbal skills to guide themselves through new learning tasks by using verbal self-guidance: talking themselves through tasks in a step-by-step manner. For example, when the child is learning a new mathematical operation, such as adding two two-digit numbers, he can practice saying to himself, first aloud and then silently, each step in the sequence. The sequence of steps can be written down and placed on his desk at school and at home to refer to whenever he is doing addition, until the procedure is more automatic.
The “rules” of social interaction, such as “Make eye contact and say ‘Hello,’ “ “Tell your friend one interesting thing you did this week,” “Wait until your friend finishes speaking before you respond,” and “Don’t stand too close to your friend,” can be written down and verbally rehearsed before each planned social event. While this might seem artificial and forced, the child’s self-confidence from this can grow and social interaction can become less painful.
Helping the child organize lengthy textual information is also possible by training him to first pre-read a text by scanning the headings and subheadings, then going back and reading the full text with questions in mind, such as “Who is the main character?” and “What is he trying to accomplish?”
After reading through the text, the text can be reviewed with these questions in mind I evaluated one young woman with NVLD who had made it as far as college without being identified, on sheer persistence and intelligence. However, in college she found it impossible to keep up with all of her lecture classes because she was trying to write down every word that each professor said in every class. She had not developed the skill of listening for key words and writing down an outline of the lecture as she listened to it. It can help these students enormously if they are simply given outlines of the class material on which they can take their notes. This gives them an organizational framework in which to place the content of the lecture, and it gives them a visual stimulus to reinforce the auditory information to which they are being exposed. Tutoring these students in identifying main ideas and key words is also helpful.
So, I hope it is clear that NVLD is a real but invisible processing disorder, and that much can be done to help these children. The hardest part, though, is early and accurate identification and acceptance, so these children can enjoy successful learning experiences early in their education.
Edward H. Jacobs, Ph.D. is a psychologist in practice in Londonderry, NH. He is a frequent contributor to the LDAM Journal and the author of two books: Fathering the ADHD Child: A Book for Fathers, Mothers, and Professionals, and ADHD: Helping Parents Help Their Children, both published by Jason Aronson, Inc.
auntblabby
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My high verbal skills were large advantage in school. My visualisational abilities and spatial intelligence do not appear to be in above-average range. NLD fits me better than disorders which look like Kanner's syndrome. But traits like nonverbal communiaction imapirment, emotional "instability", fidgeting are Aspergian for me. I would say that some forms of "pure"(?) NLD make the person an Aspie by itself. Not all sorts of NLD are Aspieness. "Aspieness" (which I called "aucorigia", "aucory") can be caused by various factors, which appear to be nt related to themselves, such as "NLDs", Kanner's syndrome and conditions related to it, "schizo-" disorders whch make a person "other" since chldhood, not later (in adolescence or adulthood).
Here is a link to a text written by a person with NLD: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/odd-girl-in/201212/being-happy-despite-nld. Some fragments from it:
They discount the years I went to sleep crying because I didn't have friends or enough friends. I cried because I was the last person picked on any team. I cried because I couldn't sing or dance. I cried because I couldn't draw non-abstract paintings or other artwork. I cried because people called me lazy. I cried because kids threw me into the bushes at the bus stop and called me names. I cried because I was teased.
I cried because people died or were cruel to others. My empathy scared my parents as I felt everything so deeply. I know— supposedly not an NLD characteristic but it was for me.
I cried because I was scared of everybody. Kids would begin conversations with me and my answers would fly out of my brain. I loved talking to adults because they found me interesting and I knew they would talk to me. My father was my hero and he thought I was brilliant. (...)
Being independent saved me. I never minded being alone. Actually my idea of a great day was reading with my best friend, then taking a long solitary bike ride and having TV dinners with my sister when our parents went out. Then I would listen to rock music, look for the key to life in the lyrics and sing along. My poor poor sister!
When I was about twelve I became that weird girl who couldn't stop fidgeting. I stopped crying and began freezing. I froze when I should have been answering. It looked as if I weren't focusing when I was focusing almost too much. I froze when I was supposed to give a speech. No words would come out of my mouth.
Today people might say I was a potential Adam Lanza though I never hated other people and I, having a great lack of spatial coordination, would have probably shot myself. (I do not mean in any way to justify his actions; they are beyond comprehensible to me.)
That's just it. I never hated. I never blamed my problems on anybody but me. I desperately clung to tomorrow. Tomorrow I was going to be popular. Tomorrow I was going to learn to sing. (Sadly I really believed that one.) Tomorrow everything was going to be alright.
I still become crazed on crowded streets. I still hate crowded stores or going shopping with others. I still can't do complicated math or copy a diagram. There's a lot I can't do but if I spent my life focusing on that I wouldn't be able to focus on what I can do.
auntblabby
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Who would have easier life: "traditional" Aspie with excellent visual-spatial skills, spatial intelligence and eidetic memory or "NLDer" with very good verbal skills (such as rote memory, spelling, grammar), but significantly weaker visual-spatial and motoric skills? Both are socially inept. For me socially inept "NLDers" are a group of Aspies. For me "autistic spectrum" would be rather a "league" (like language league) than a "family" (something more similar to it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprachbund than to it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_family) - in my view Aspieness/aucory is like a Sprachbund, not like a language family.
auntblabby
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I suppose that I am among those Aspies who would be excluded from "the spectrum" by some specialists, especially from Northern America. I think that excluding people like me from autistic/Aspergian/PDD group is bad. They might be called just "learning disabled", "schizotypal", "emotionally disturbed", but not "Aspies", "autistics", "PDDers". My Aspieness appears to be not related to Kanner's syndrome. I have not sensory overwhelming, excellent visual thinking, necessity of sameness...
On Polish AS forum the woman who firstly named herself "Aspijka" has even more NLD-like phenotype than me. For me she may be a prototype of Aspijka in general. She had problems with social skills even in pre-school age. She liked fiction literature since childhood, unlike me. She appears to be verbally gifted. She is not "kooky", unlike me. She experienced similar religious issues to me.
Another text about AS and "NLD": http://www.autismsite.ca/files/AS%20vs%20NVLD%20version%202-7%2705.pdf
Commonalities:
- Confuses adults because this seems to be a bright child who just “doesn’t get it”
- Weaknesses in adaptive functioning
- Poor organizational skills
- Dislike of novel situations and an insistence on things being the same
- May show obsessive tendencies
- Difficulties generalizing skills
- Pay close attention to details but be unable to see the forest for the trees
I think that obsessive tendencies are NOT a trait of NLD. It has to be ruled out from NLD description in my opinion. It "contaminates" the picture of NLD due to including PDDic traits. I may be angry due to texts in which obsessiveness is presented as an (possible) NLD trait.
I write something "strong" and "harsh" here/ For me naming the condition which I have as "learning disability" instead as "autism" looks as silly, contemptible mockery. I might have temptations to hit faces of people who name conditions like I have as "learning disorders" really strong... Because of using "idiotic" and "ignorant" name to a serious, complex and pervasive developmental disorder.
Both have Trouble with Non-Verbal Social Cues but for Different Reasons:
- NLD – due to weak visual skills
- AS – may be strong visually but have trouble interpreting what they see
- AS –Theory of Mind (TofM) interferes with ease of understanding others
Social problems in "normal" NLD should be only due to weak visual skills, not due to for example not thinking about making eye contact!
People like me has to be diagnosed as PDDers/Aspies/autistics, not as learning disabled or having just personality or emotional disorders. Cases of aspieness with traits like mine should be more studied. It looks that they are not related to Kanner's syndrome, even are not so similar to it.
I suppose that "NLD" with obsessiveness, bizarrities, worse social skills is another sort of AUTISM (which can also form a spectrum), not related to "traditional" one. It should not have so bad visual-spatial skills as proper NLD, but suppose that verbal skills in it are stronger than visual-spatial-motoric ones. It can not have traits characteristic to "traditional" autism at all, such as sensory processing issues, need of sameness etc.
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- Confuses adults because this seems to be a bright child who just “doesn’t get it”
- Weaknesses in adaptive functioning
- Poor organizational skills
- Dislike of novel situations and an insistence on things being the same
- May show obsessive tendencies
- Difficulties generalizing skills
- Pay close attention to details but be unable to see the forest for the trees[/i]
Both have Trouble with Non-Verbal Social Cues but for Different Reasons:
- NLD – due to weak visual skills
- AS – may be strong visually but have trouble interpreting what they see
- AS –Theory of Mind (TofM) interferes with ease of understanding others
gosh


auntblabby
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