Asperger's is not real

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SteveK
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17 Mar 2007, 1:25 pm

tkmattson wrote:

Apatura wrote:

statschica wrote:

By the way, throwing beer in the face of someone who has a different opinion is not a very rational way to behave. Secondly, "omitting" people from your life who don't follow your mob mentality about ANYTHING, even if they're speaking tongues and/or giving you wild opinions about things, is a very shallow and innoble thing to do. If you believed everything you think is some sort of true science of reality then you wouldn't be so threatened by other peoples' opinions to begin with.

May I point out, not everyone is throwing beer in your face.

You're a kinder soul than myself at this moment. What I don't get is why is she here if this problem doesn't exist?

(a) To "correct" us, a la Tom Cruise, Matt Lauer, and psychiatry
(b) To help herself accept the diagnosis
(c) To agitate people

Again, you are a kind soul for believing it is (b), but with a pronouncement title like she used, her intentions appear more to be (a) & (c). She had to know the negative reaction she was going to elicit by using such a title, in this community.

You're certainly right! I heard once about a prochoice democrat that tried to state his case in front of a prolife conservative church! STUPID!! !! ! And he was recognized as that. The interesting thing is that he probably even lost relatives votes. You HAVE to wonder why people do that!

I earlier, MYSELF, wondered if it was real, etc.... You know what I decided? WHO CARES! Many of you people are so EARILY similar to me that I don't care if it is genetic, something in the food supply, or we were all exposed to some odd radiation, etc... The FACT is that that difference is not UNIQUE, and is often grouped with other things. That IS what psychiatry, indeed science ITSELF, is all about! I don't care about the theories, or why it exists. The fact is there IS something. Call it AS, Aspergers, or zonkers, who cares?

HEY, I'm GOOD with noticing certain patterns. Many NT males seem OBSESSED with sports. Pretty much the way I was with computers and electronics! Many NT females seem obsessed with certain social things. They can learn some of the things we can. There ARE definite differences, don't get me wrong. NT knowledge is driven by peer pressure, family, public pride, and absolute NEED. AS knowledge seems to be driven more by PERSONAL desire and pride. There are certainly other differences, but it is amazing how some of the most obvious can be so simply explained away. STILL, you have to wonder WHY they exist. I LIKE the AMD and INTEL comparison!

Steve

anbuend
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17 Mar 2007, 1:42 pm

Apatura wrote:

richardbenson wrote:

i dont think you can see aspergers in brain scans

Not true.

SVBI: SPECT image library

They don't have as much understanding in SPECT scans as they claim to have. They can see that a brain is abnormal, but they can't look at the scan and determine exactly what condition the person has, necessarily.

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tkmattson
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17 Mar 2007, 1:56 pm

SteveK wrote:

tkmattson wrote:

Apatura wrote:

statschica wrote:

May I point out, not everyone is throwing beer in your face.

As a Pro Choice Democrat that is the damned funniest story I have ever heard, and yes, very indicative of those too wrapped in their own self righteousness to see the negative impact of trying to impose their views on others. Questioning your own set of beliefs are one thing, but trying to then impose that view on others - that's best done with compassion for their current set of circumstances - walking a mile in their shoes. Until you've done that, you're speaking from nowhere but a place of ignorance.

Sedaka
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17 Mar 2007, 2:23 pm

statschica wrote:

I'm diagnosed with Asperger's after brain scans, neurologists, and tests (to my dismay) but still kinda laugh at people that see everything as "all or nothing" this sad black and white world where people are either "NT or autie" and I wanna take a stand on it. My mom's twin sister had autism and my dad didn't talk till he was 5. The autie traits going back to my grandparents kinda make it silly when I hear a doctor or psychiatrist say these things aren't really genetic when in my family these personality traits seem so completely genetic. But then again I remind myself than so many people feel the need to join some "mob mentality" clan where everybody joins together to justify their own strengths and weaknesses. I feel no more "autie" than I do "NT" and I think anybody that does is completely dilluding themselves and forgetting that personality traits are "continuous" from a mathematical standpoint, not categorical and that EVERYBODY is different. Until people begin to tolerate everybody else we're always going to have groups fighting over who is more right or justified than the others and there is nothing "special" about that! And I'm assuming most people that thrive on these categories (and yes I'm referring to most psychologists and flag-carrying aspies) are people that crave being special and I would have plenty to say about how that affects society but I'll just refrain and know that some people just don't have the intelligence to realize this world is much more "grey" than the worker bees of society will ever realize or ever comprehend I'm sure.

yes i agree that in general... people tend to compartmentalize things way too much.

take evolution... and defining what makes a species. there are many ways to do so and there are several examples which challenge all these methods of "putting pegs into holes".

at the same time... i think it's naive and self-diserving to not acknowledge your own differences and to discredit autism as an actual state of being... i think the phenotypic differences are quite "real" and should be recognized---as some people more than others... could definitely benefit from help for their autistic traits. to say it's nothing special suggests that these people don't need or deserve any help

i think you're more upset with how the norm is defined... as many people have been through the ages and will continue to be...

i think with time... the definition of normal will change and a larger variety of ppl will be accpeted. but there will always be something new and unfamiliar to consider, cause things always change... and humans... NT or AS, are creatures of habit.

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beentheredonethat
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17 Mar 2007, 2:36 pm

Look, Asperger's is real. But I think Hans Asperger was wrong, and I think the entire scieitific community is wrong, and I speak as someone who has had it all my life. I don't think, at this point, we know enough about the brain (which is certainly not "wired" in any way shape or form), or about environment, or about the formation of neural connections or even about genitics to say anything about it. There are many of us who have to live with it every day, and it is very real, and we all cope with it as best we can. But that's on the daily living end of it. In terms of what makes the whole syndrome work.....well, I haven't heard an explanation that makes sense to me yet. Not one that you can follow back to a source and say here is where you get this disorder. Then, again, is it a disorder in the strict sense of the word? Of course, when you get someone who is so tied up that they can't function, yes. It is. But when you get some higher functioning people, some of them are ordinary, and some of them are brilliant. Explain that.

Kosmonaut
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17 Mar 2007, 3:33 pm

Whoever diagnosed statschica with AS needs a new job.

Don't tell me you can't diagnose by reading posts and looking a photograph.
In some cases it is obvious.

Apatura
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17 Mar 2007, 3:34 pm

SteveK wrote:

I earlier, MYSELF, wondered if it was real, etc.... You know what I decided? WHO CARES! Many of you people are so EARILY similar to me that I don't care if it is genetic, something in the food supply, or we were all exposed to some odd radiation, etc... The FACT is that that difference is not UNIQUE, and is often grouped with other things. That IS what psychiatry, indeed science ITSELF, is all about! I don't care about the theories, or why it exists. The fact is there IS something. Call it AS, Aspergers, or zonkers, who cares?

My sentiments exactly. Whatever it is, most of us here have it. And it is eerie!

I guess I don't understand why statschica gets jumped over so much. She was jumped over in that other thread she posted on, the one about prostitutes (?). To me I see a person full of doubts and questions thinking out loud. For whatever reason, I don't take her words too personally. Everyone has the right to ruminate.

Apatura
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17 Mar 2007, 3:35 pm

anbuend wrote:

Apatura wrote:

richardbenson wrote:

i dont think you can see aspergers in brain scans

Not true.

SVBI: SPECT image library

I like the idea of every part of the brain being "too" lit up! :lol:

I guess I will have to employ some skepticism, that site did seem a little weird.

SteveK
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17 Mar 2007, 3:35 pm

beentheredonethat wrote:

First of all, peoples brains certainly ARE hardwired! They are VERY much like computers. A baby acts much like a computer with some intelligence program would have to react. It understands basic things, and has a way of learning and is proded into learning certain things and everything builds on prior info.

A couple examples? NT kids are proded into looking at people, etc... Language proding is slow and perfunctory. AS kids AREN'T so proded into looking at people, but learn more language earlier.

Apparently, autistics have smaller nuerons, and more of them. I guess that could make them more susceptible to some things, etc... Maybe some that have problems have them because of a susceptiblity, and not actually because of the condition. Even NTs have such conditions. It HAS to be overrepresented in autistic people, because that makes them more likely to get diagnosed as autistic. Most problem free autistics probably won't get diagnosed! As for the "normal" as people? Maybe they are misdiagnosed, not observant enough, or didn't push themselves enough. For me, I could EASILY forget about some talents **I** take for granted. ALSO, I never pushed myself enough. ***NOW*** I am trying to push myself a BIT harder.

Steve

Apatura
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17 Mar 2007, 3:37 pm

Kosmonaut wrote:

Whoever diagnosed statschica with AS needs a new job.

Don't tell me you can't diagnose by reading posts and looking a photograph.
In some cases it is obvious.

I don't agree. That big smile could be forced, fake, or nervous. I've done that plenty of times myself.

As per her posts, they seem kind of obsessive to me, sort of like that other lady who was here obsessing over whether or not she has AS (can't remember hername) and she kept asking to be banned from here because she was obsessing to much.

I do agree whoever diagnosed her should get a new job, since they don't think AS is genetic.

SteveK
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17 Mar 2007, 3:44 pm

Apatura wrote:

Kosmonaut wrote:

Whoever diagnosed statschica with AS needs a new job.

Don't tell me you can't diagnose by reading posts and looking a photograph.
In some cases it is obvious.

That womans name was Nora, as I recall. I would be SHOCKED if she had AS. just because you have obsessions doesn't mean you have AS.

Steve

Apatura
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17 Mar 2007, 3:52 pm

Maybe I didn't read enough of her posts, but I was more on the fence about her than you are. And yes, I do sometimes come across members whom I really wonder about, even some who have been officially diagnosed. She was not one of them.

I know obsessiveness alone does not equal AS!

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17 Mar 2007, 3:57 pm

This is getting out of control.

Somebody lock it.

NoCriminalIntent
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17 Mar 2007, 4:01 pm

Kosmonaut wrote:

Whoever diagnosed statschica with AS needs a new job.

Don't tell me you can't diagnose by reading posts and looking a photograph.
In some cases it is obvious.

Never said anything about reading posts. Dont think anyone else did either. Obviously someone can present enough of themselves in writing to give the chance for a diagnosis. But to make a negative diagnosis from just a photograph, nope, sorry, cant be done.

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statschica
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17 Mar 2007, 4:04 pm

Reality is I was questioning it and seeing how people responded and now I have a good idea about what people are thinking and doing, that's how I figure out more about why people jump on bandwagons throughout history and everything else. I never claimed to know the "exact" solution and never would. Sadly, the same types who claim everything is all or nothing are the same people that are quick to look at a picture and put you in a category. Basically, I think people that want to put their preconceptions on "others" are making it harder for those of us who really are different. Basically, I've never accused anybody of anything except for this: there is no justification for harming others. Questioning the norm is not harming anybody but searching for answers. Sadly, many people feel "treatened" by skepticism and respond emotionally and somewhat animalistically from my perspective and try to get in a tit-for-tat about something that's arbitrary to begin with. Difference is great and okay but if you can't accept differences in opinions or even ideas then you will only be constraining society's progression.

Kosmonaut
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17 Mar 2007, 4:05 pm

NoCriminalIntent wrote:

Never said anything about reading posts. Dont think anyone else did either.

Who said that you or anyone else did?
My "Don't tell me.." comment was pre-emptive.

NoCriminalIntent wrote:

But to make a negative diagnosis from just a photograph, nope, sorry, cant be done.

Whos said that it could?

You need to read my post again, or get a grasp of logic.

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