80% of people on Autism spectrum are unemployed?

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Yes, reliable and valid sampling can be incredibly difficult to achieve. The most common fault in existing studies is usually how they draw their study sample. For example, suppose as a social scientist you wanted to identify the real incidence of depression in your city. How would you get a representative sample that included those - who didn't know they were depressed; who know they are depressed but wish to keep that as an entirely private matter; who seek help from a general practitioner but those records are entirely confidential; some people have been misdiagnosed with depression but have something else. The naive researcher might then decide to draw a sample from the local community clinic because they have 'a captive population' (surprisingly common). But you can see the bias built in to the findings just at that point. For example, the clinic may be open only during working hours; so employed people tend never to present there.

I thought the TUC paper was great Davvo7 - in identifying and articulating very important issues. But I see the percentage stuff - stated as absolutes like that - as extremely spurious, misleading and oppressive - just one more obstacle, no help at all in overcoming the issues the TUC articulated so well.

Last edited by B19 on 27 Aug 2015, 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

AS is a form of high functioning autism.

People with HFA have the tendencies to have high IQs which generally implies a low EQ. ASD and HFA are the same thing, AS is a subclass of ASD.

I'm really curious:

How am I "blaming the victim" if I do believe one should not live according to "statistics"

I really would like to know...enlighten me!

I agree that we should not let the statistics discourage us, but I do think that they represent our need to do more work to fight discrimination, not only for us but for future generations of Autistic people.

One of the things motivating me currently to get more involved in Autism Advocacy of late is not actually the discrimination I've faced - which I have mentioned in other threads - but knowing that I have a much younger cousin who is on a more severe part of the spectrum, and that if our generations can't fix these problems now, he will grow up to potentially face even worse problems than I have had.

These problems exist and we must tackle them rather than sticking our heads in the sand OR giving up in the belief that it is futile. We have a real chance of setting a precedent so that we are the last generations of Autistic people to feel (and be) excluded from society, socially or economically.

I hope you don't get the idea that I'm not for autism advocacy. I darn well am for it!

What I meant...about half-full, half-empty....is that there are, frequently, situations which are open to interpretation. Neither one of the "interpretations" might be "right"--but it is preferable, to me, to think relatively optimistically rather than think things from a doomsday perspective.

I don't believe in the 80% unemployment figure for people on the Spectrum. I believe it is more difficult for Spectrumites to get jobs--but it's not a hopeless situation, by any means.

Advocacy would improve that situation.

I agree and disagree, as always, as is human nature...I think the 80% number is very high, but that's because I think there are a lot of cases of autism that are never diagnosed as such. The operative clinical phrase for diagnosis includes "must cause impairment in everyday functioning" or something to that effect. Basically we're making a dividing line based on level of impairment. How many times have you seen someone and thought, "hmm, they're probably autistic" based on a series of behaviors? They probably are, but they aren't clinically autistic since it's not impairing their everyday functioning. When you add in that broader phenotype the employment rate among autistic peoples really shoots up. Now when we leave only the people with significant impairment, the clinically autistic, that employment rate is naturally going to plummet, since, well, they have "significant impairment".

Just as in every demographic, I think there are some autistics that don't really try hard enough, but I also think a very large portion of autistic people have such a difficult time that it is impossible to find and keep steady work. Significant impairment is significant impairment.

I don't disagree with what you're saying.

The 80% figure comes from including everyone on the spectrum. People with Kanners/LFA represent a majority among the spectrum and the fewest of them are employed. However for people with HFA and AS, I have heard numbers between 40 and 60% unemployment in the US while in Europe it is significantly higher. Germany for instance has unemployment for people on the spectrum around 95% and for people with HFA/AS somewhere between 85 and 90%.

I thought HFA was different to AS in the sense that HFA was more a kind of high functioning version of Kanners while AS was a separate but similar diagnosis with the difference that while people with HFA are more likely to live independently, people with AS were more likely to find employment.

You sly devil, you pulled that political talk from an NT!

What you stated makes sense.

If I were sly, I wouldn't be where I am now!

I would say my job is something like "Kafka-lite." Kafka was an insurance guy who was well-regarded and seen as being indispensable, despite his quirks.

I'm a civil-service guy who is merely seen as being quirky.

As long as you don't start turning into a giant insect I think you'll be ok...and I'm jealous, that actually sounds like a really good job to me.

In truth, I was pretty lucky I got this job.

I was working for the Yellow Pages in 1980, when this Hispanic girl I was working with called me on the phone, and recommended I come for an interview for this other job. I didn't know it was Civil Service! I thought it was just another job, but it would mean a raise in pay to $201 a week, from $140 a week. I almost didn't go to the interview because of my anxiety--but I went! And I got the job the same day!

That's why I always advocate that people try the Civil Service route, get on a waiting list after taking a test. There are a few people on this Site who are civil servants.

And always remember: you could always bank on your reputation as a playwright in the Athenian world.

Lots of people with ASD have great futures. There are dozens of successful people here on WP. Let's take a look at successful people with ASD.

Two of my favourite:

Jacob Applebaum- Responsible for the Tor project and full disk encryption, diagnosed with ASD as a child. He is also a freedom of speech activist.

Don Aykroyd- Responsible for Ghost Busters, diagnosed with ASD as a child.

Regarding Applebaum, I tend to have a rather activist personality and through that have found that a lot of people involved with various types of activism are often on the spectrum. Maybe it's our lack of respect for authority

Perhaps we should coin the term "Aspivism" to describe this increased propensity

On another note, even with the employment troubles I've had myself I have found that I can attempt things much "crazier" than many NT's feel able to, as I am viewed as eccentric regardless. Last year I tried to start a newspaper! (and very nearly got it going)

I also ran a blogging event which was covered on local TV last week, and have had some other interesting media and politics related opportunities present themselves of late

It would all seem more fun though if I a) wasn't so broke and b) didn't feel like self-employment was so inevitable... Ideally with these things, you start them while working in another job (so the transition isn't so financially unstable).

edit: I'm posting this late night, and it feels somewhat unintelligible as I'm writing it... So sorry if it is so.

I wholeheartedly agree. The problem of economic oppression of ASD people is real, and I am in no denial about that. But statistics can be used against us - just as Autism Speaks has tried to use them - to blame the victims. I can see that people quoting "80% of us are unemployed" think this may automatically lead to inclusion and effort on the part of employers to create pathways. I don't believe that will be the result. Instead it will be used instead, against us, to "prove" how unemployable and unfit this "deficient" group is, and it has been already. Ideally, we would create our own employment agencies and networks to create pathways and specialised training plus in-to-work placement and transition support. If we wait and hope that NT employers will take pity on us and do this - we will be waiting a few more generations at least.

Another toxic use of that false statistic is that it is used by some younger adults to prove that even trying is a waste of time. That is as harmful as what the stigmatisers do. It is self-stigma in a way, and it discourages others from giving themselves a go.