Un-learning Asperger

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When Daniel is having a "bad" day
most everything is thought this way
communication is laughable
my efforts may appear laudable
trust me, I’d rather be inaudible

Yes apologies if this 'unlearn' phrase is causing problems - it's not ideal.

My view is that AS tendency folk have developed a way of relating to the world by logic, with each step being a conscious logical step. If we use NT apporcah we instead let that be done (a) subconsciously and intuitively i.e. 'feeling' the right way forward, and (b) using much more and better information, because we are instinctively picking up and processing beter what is going on around us.

I think if you guys just turned off - just for a moment - the logic, analysis and thinking going on in your head, in a social situation, you would find you could be sense flying free, rather than clinging to your seat on the ground. I think we DO have the other skills and abilities, they've always been drowned out.


E.g. consider talking - using AS approach we talk by moving our lung muscles a bit, taking a breathe in, adjusting muscle of throat, gently pushing some air out, slightly adjusting position of mouth and tongue - all CONSCIOUSLY - whereas there is another way; using NT approaches we can just.. talk, communicate, using the fabulous human capabilities that are there, in a largely subconscious way.

Or consider bicycling; the AS way by lifting one leg, thinking where your weight is, looking forward, pressing down the other leg, etc etc ... the other way is just 'going' in a semi-subconscious, naturally balancing way.

Or painting by numbers, calculating each spot of colour - rather than feeling the sweep and overall shape of how the colours would feel right.


So perhaps forget 'unlearning' - it's just STOPPING, stopping the great crashing logic system going on in our minds - and in the quiet after that (a bit frightening maybe, but not for long), then finding that we DO have alternative routes to offer.


I was with someone recently who was very wound up and angry, mostly with me - she was talking with someone else, looking together at a piece of paper, and I just wondered up behind them, NOT thinking consciously or calculating, and just put my hand on her shoulder, just briefly, as I shared a brief positive word on what they were saying - tears literally came to her eyes. There were no words, no logic - even now I don't want to characterise it as forgiveness or acceptance or love or anything (I don't know if the situation is fully resolved or not) - but it just 'was'; something rich and meaningful and right for that particular moment. I didn't analyse what I was doing - and I would never have done that pre March 07 - even if I'd tried to 'act' it I would have slightly misjudged the weight of hand or the timing.

This sort of thing could maybe be your experience too, I believe.

Aspies/Auties don't always relate to the world by logic - at least I definitely don't. I don't have a problem with intuition, and I don't have a social problem either... But that doesn't mean I'm suddenly NT. I can't "unlearn" the way my brain is built, that would take brain surgery and would most likely cause more damage than benefit. (And by the way, why would I WANT to? You still haven't mentioned one good reason...)

I'm glad AS hasn't hurt you, yet at least. It certainly hurt me and my wife badly.

The other reason is the simple joy of connecting with other human beings.

People being NT has hurt me a lot.
Yet I don't expect them to change.
There are things that are more important to me than connecting with people.

Agreed.

As goes for everyday people.
One person does something and hurts another, doesn't matter whether they are NT or AS, one of the other, two of both, point is something happened - feeling were hurt or perhaps trust was broken, perhaps ideals and opportunities were thrashed. AS isn't something to point the blame to its something you have to work with.

I do a LOT of things purely on instinct - with the guitar, for example, the minute you consciously think about what you're left hand's doing, you can't do it. Once you go back to just letting it happen, it flows beautifully. Same for painting, or writing a poem...

My problem is that when I try to socialise (ie, have a conversation) on instinct - I get it wrong, every damn time. My 'instincts' don't work properly in relation to social stuff. These days I do tend to consciously analyse what I'm doing, and since I've done, so I've made more friends and offended fewer people, so it seems to be working for me.

I personally don't consider this 'you could do it if you wanted to' school of thought helpful - you wouldn't expect a hearing impaired person to "unlearn" deafness. Sure, they can learn to speak, to lipread, all sorts of coping mechanisms to function in mainstream society, but that doesn't mean they're not deaf any more.

Thats my problem too! I find that if I just try to relax and be who I am, much of the time I end up getting into trouble which results in confrontations over the most stupid stuff, mostly because when I begin to go a stray, I don't read the early body language to tell me to shut up, or alert me to the fact I am upsetting someone and may need to clarify myself!

I found it quite interesting and if it helps some people then that's fine.
The way I see it however is that AS is like a different 'language' from NT (it's similar to
the analogy that Grimbling made with deafness).We can of course learn the NT 'language' and communicate effectively but the fact is we will never be a native speaker of 'NT' so there are always likely to be a few subtle phrases or non-verbal signs that we don't pick up right away.In order to communicate it's only natural that we have to systemize more than the natives. The other factor is that the natives don't 'speak' AS and a lot of them are not even aware of it's existence !
I think the key to being able to connect with others is accepting our own strengths and
weaknesses. Maybe your own thesis is just one way of encouraging that.

Hi, I'm Patrick; haven't posted here before, but am fascinated by this thread as I consider myself partly self-cured of very mild Asperger's. I'm not saying it was worth the effort, and at 28 I've done enough 'inner transformation' for my liking.

Anyhow, Grimbling has a point - Isn't it more a question of building up intuition than of knocking down systemizing?

On the other hand, I find it remarkable how the online aspie community do a better job of accepting the modern western concept of selfhood than most normal people do! Maybe it is natural to think of onesself as an object like a car or an orange; certainly the brain appears to be like this, and the idea of 'soul' might be understood in that way.

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But, aspies, when someone tells you how different you are as you fail to hug your wife (or whatever you're being criticized for), do you not observe yourself behaving? How is your observation of your 'aspie' behaviour fundamentally different to an "NT"'s observation of their own behaviour? And, on reflection, is it not in your own observation -your consciousness- that you feel your sense of self most keenly? Even if you do identify yourself fully with every move you make (or don't make), can't you atleast imagine yourself acting out alternatives?

The 'neurodiversity' movement is necessary, ofcourse, to let people know that we're pretty much OK and can be understood to their satisfaction; apart from that, people need to work with what they have if they're to function fully in society. But some people do sometimes feel a need to step outside of their habits and take a breath of fresh air. Call it freedom, spirituality, whatever, but maybe that's what JC is up to here-??-

Thanks for the 'name', Wrongplanet; you've just illustrated my argument perfectly! I've just been given the name 'Emu Egg', just like my parents gave me the name 'Patrick'. I guess that's how everyone's born; mother and mother nature give them a name and a phenotype (genes plus environment) that mould and direct their lives.

But I'm not about to claim that an Emu Egg says everything I could ever say about me at any point in my life {I'm using metaphor here}. I don't buy the theology that says you chose to be yourself because you wouldn't chose to be anyone else. The impression science gives us of the brain of a foetus is that -barring severe autism or similar- everything's still up in the air; genes and environment will shape its destiny in the years to come. You go on to act out what nature gives you to act out; but, as you mature, you learn to change some of your behaviour (hitting other kids for example), and may even chose a novel train of THOUGHT over your usual, if you have the inclination.

P.s. something that's confusing me here is this: Apart making less elaborate interpretations of what you sense than normal people do, what does being autistic mean to you all?

Because we're "weird" and don't talk about all the garbage everyone else does.
The idea of thinking on your own is excruciating to a lot of people and completely beyond comprehension. I tend to shut up until someone confesses an interest or idea the same as mind, thus from there I can communicate a bit more efficiently and get on relatively well with the exchange of similar interests or, when conversation needs an objective and detached view point.

You say you haven't been officially diagnosed, and have stupid theories about AS. Are you SURE you even have it? WHY???

Steve

Uh... Steve, settle down a bit. His theories may seem 'stupid' to you, but that is no reason to be so rude. Who cares if he's been officially diagnosed or not; he believes he has it and is trying to share his ideas in order to help us. That's all that matters whether or not you agree with him.

He IS coming off almost like the guy trying to sell that juice! The ONLY reason I brought up the question of diagnosis is because he talks like he has NO benefits and BIG problems, and like EVERYONE ELSE has the same problems. He also makes it sound like it is a simple thing that can LITERALLY be switched off.

Steve

I think, if someone claims he found a way to "cure" AS, he SHOULD at least know what he's talking about. So either he should have an official diagnosis or a degree in psychology or neurobiology.
What the OP wrote sounds like someone who had severe social problems and tries to explain them via "AS" without knowing what AS actually is, plus implying that ALL aspies had exactly the same problems. An aspie isn't just a person who likes to systemize a lot, and not all aspies show the same symptoms. Maybe it's a bit harsh to call his theories 'stupid', especially since the OP tried to help others, but I think he should at least visit a psychologist before he publishes his theories... It's not even sure whether his problem really was AS in the first place. Over-systemizing alone doesn't make an Aspie.